Uh Oh!

[El and Bill]

Yes, Greg - medicare is certainly a help. If you didn't contribute to the medicare program through social security during earning years you don't qualify for medicare - and we didn't contribute to social security or medicare during our teaching years. We 'lucked' out by having 'self-employed' income in the late 80's, and then contributed to soc. sec. and medicare -- this qualified us in medicare. Point being not all are covered by soc sec or medicare - we were lucky - we didn't start our little incorporated 'company' to qualify - but by dumb luck we were in the program.

However, for us at least, being in medicare doesn't cover many med expenses -- we do have outside supplemental insurance but that doesn't cover it all either - there are pretty substantial copays, and that insurance isn't cheap.

For those approaching retirement age - check on your soc sec payment (based on amount you contributed through the years) and whether your employer will keep you in 'the group' so you can get less expensive supplemental insurance.

Dot and Marty - glad you find the idea sharing in this 'pub' to be so useful - we certainly do also - we all share the love of our boats and it's great that we share thoughts to help us all keep on boating. Thanks for your comments - it encourages us all to continue sharing amongst our friends.

 

[Dene]

Yes, Greg - medicare is certainly a help. If you didn't contribute to the medicare program through social security during earning years you don't qualify for medicare - and we didn't contribute to social security or medicare during our teaching years. We 'lucked' out by having 'self-employed' income in the late 80's, and then contributed to soc. sec. and medicare -- this qualified us in medicare. Point being not all are covered by soc sec or medicare - we were lucky - we didn't start our little incorporated 'company' to qualify - but by dumb luck we were in the program.

However, for us at least, being in medicare doesn't cover many med expenses -- we do have outside supplemental insurance but that doesn't cover it all either - there are pretty substantial copays, and that insurance isn't cheap.

I don't know the market in Colorado. However, in Oregon, bumper to bumper coverage is $67/mo. for a PPO plan that includes Rx, dental, and vision. In Washington, it's $60/mo. These plans require you have Medicare part A and B.

I recommend calling a couple of ins. brokers in Colorado and see what's out there. If you have a medicare supplement plan (e.g plan F, etc.), then you have an expensive dinosaur. Find out the rate for HealthNet in particular, Blue Cross, and United Health Care's plans.

There is no downside, medically speaking, to changing plans and you can change plans each year, from 11/15 through 12/31. However, some of these plans require you be in the service area for 6 months out of a year.

You can e-mail me for further advise. Good luck!

-Greg

 

[JamesTXSD]

We certainly understand and share Bill and El's concerns, especially regarding health care costs. One of our largest fixed monthly expenses is health insurance. We were self-employed, so there is no "golden umbrella" for us. At 55, I am a long ways from Medicare. We have tried to manage the insurance costs by raising our deductable; in essence, self-insuring for minor things. So far, we have stayed healthy, but we're not willing to gamble our retirement on that.

We watch our bucks, have no debt, and have, likewise, eliminated much of the "stuff" from our working life. Traveling by C-Dory (or RV) isn't overwhelming cost wise... and you can control much of the costs by determining how and when you travel and where you stay. We have slowed down, both on the road and the water, looking to get more mileage for our $$. I don't look at our travels as "extravagant vacations," but as the way we live. The boat and the RV are our home when we're not home.

A mentor of mine once told me, "You don't have to be a millionaire to live like one." Sunsets are free; as are many beaches; or the mountains. I don't have to own a big expensive home on the water to enjoy the water. As many of you know, price gouging on fuel really chaps my ass. And those of us who enjoy these boats can only imagine what the real gas-guzzlers on the water must be experiencing right now. If it ever gets to the point that we can't afford to fuel up Wild Blue, I'd be looking to go back to sailing... this island boy needs to be on the water. That's NEED, not want.

Wild Blue isn't a plaything for us, it's an escape pod. One thing I think most C-Brats would agree on: it's about the experience. Granted, there is a certain price of admission; but once you have the boat, you manage the costs. And I think that's what this thread has been all about.

Politics? You can make that as important as you desire, but who lives in the White House really doesn't affect my day to day living. I still believe that anyone smart enough to do the job well is smart enough to not want the job. You have to want the power and prestige. And that's not what our boats and the way we use them is all about.

When we're heading down the waterway, watching the dolphins play, looking for pelicans and osprey, waiting for the sunset and hoping for the green flash, I am truly blessed. What's that worth?

Best wishes,
Jim B.

 

[El and Bill]

Well said, Jim!

 

[Westfield 11]

The problem with being too young to get Medicare is that if you are not part of a group plan, you CANNOT buy an individual policy. We live in CA and have been denied by every insurer available in that state for pre-existing conditions. I have high BP and cardiac aerrythmia, controlled by medication, and my wife has a heart murmur. I also have tinnitus, a ringing in the ears. As a result when our Cobra ran out we had to be w/o coverage for almost a year until places opened up on CA's Major Medical Risk Insurance plan. This forces Blue Cross/Healthnet to provide coverage but with a $75K yearly cap for $1800 a month for the two of us. It is an outrageous situation, but what can you expect from a for-profit system dedicated to maximising shareholder value? It makes perfect sense from their point of view: you don't earn a profit by selling policies to people who might make claims on them.......

 

[DaveS]

Wild Blue isn't a plaything for us, it's an escape pod. Jim B.

How true that is Jim! "Sea Shift" is the best "medical dollars" I've ever spent. Certainly helps with the mental health issues and I would rather sink my bucks in the boat that to the "shrink".... :roll: . When the brain is happy the "bod" is happy :wink ).

 

[dotnmarty]

maybe that's why they call it 're-creation'

 

[Hunkydory]

Yes El and Bill, Jim said it very well, especially the part about need not want.

When I retire 20 months from now we will have very good medical coverage with no added cost due to it being part of the retirement benefits of being a member of the United Mine Workers of America Union. The down side being I've worked so many jobs and years besides being a miner that the pension and savings are small. Jo-Lee has only worked out of the home when as a family it was also need not want, so no retirement there, which makes our future financial resources after retirement fairly meager by most standards. With zero debt our traveling and cruising plans this coming summer and after retirement without a much worse economy, meaning mainly high inflation is looking forward to some wonderful future years as long as our health holds and even if the economy was to fall apart as long as we could spend time in the surrounding mountain area and hopefully Yellowstone life would be great and the needs beyond food and shelter met.

Will likely start a another thread in near future if someone else doesn't about ours and others future cruising and traveling plans for next three years. Think it could be an interesting subject.

Jay

 

[Hunkydory]

It's quite wonderful to follow the comings and goings of El and Bill, Jim and Joan, Jay and Jolee as well as others on the C-Brats. That they share so freely their successes and failures, their joys and sorrows, as well as their differing judgements regarding perceived wants and needs, amazes me. These are gifts for which I am thankful.

Marty

All I can say is thanks to you too. Its very apparent and not just because of your kind and thoughtful responses to post that I have made, that in you resides a wonderful heart. Just to include us with the couples mentioned in your appreciative post is taken as a very high compliment by Jo-Lee and I.

Jay

 

[mpmccoy]

If only I could convince my wife to give up land.

El and Bill you are my heroes...oh and Mike Nelson too.

I too remember the 70's.
1) We all dressed like the Brady Bunch. Oh god those plaids were terrible not to mention those stupid platform shoes. Still love hip huggers on my wife though.
2)In 1971 a gas war was when there was too much gas and competition drove the price down to 19 cents.
3)Drugs were cheap and plentiful but unfortunately they were the illegal kind.
4) By the mid 70's Detroit didn't get it and were making the wrong kind of cars
5)Chrysler bought American Motors and the stock went down.
6)Honda imported the Honda 600 which strangely enough is the same size as the SMART car I have today.
7)The Government bailed out Chrysler but Lee Iococa had character and paid us back. I don't think that's going to happen this time.

C'mon thanks giving vacation I need to go boating!

 

[Dene]

The problem with being too young to get Medicare is that if you are not part of a group plan, you CANNOT buy an individual policy. We live in CA and have been denied by every insurer available in that state for pre-existing conditions. I have high BP and cardiac aerrythmia, controlled by medication, and my wife has a heart murmur. I also have tinnitus, a ringing in the ears. As a result when our Cobra ran out we had to be w/o coverage for almost a year until places opened up on CA's Major Medical Risk Insurance plan. This forces Blue Cross/Healthnet to provide coverage but with a $75K yearly cap for $1800 a month for the two of us. It is an outrageous situation, but what can you expect from a for-profit system dedicated to maximising shareholder value? It makes perfect sense from their point of view: you don't earn a profit by selling policies to people who might make claims on them.......

You can buy individual health insurance, if you don't have pre-existing conditions. You can buy fire insurance, unless you're house is on fire....

Your situation is tragic. Cobra bit you in the arse. The solution is Cobra enrollees having the option to continue their coverage beyond 18 months.

That's one thing that amuses me about Obama's plan is that he promises to reduce health ins. premiums and eliminate pre-existing conditions. You can do one or the other but not both, unless he gives a one time amnesty for blind enrollment. If he eliminates pre-ex, then people will wait until they are sick to buy. This happened in Washington state a few years ago. All the insurance companies incurred huge claim increases, then raised premiums 150%, then finally suspended individual enrollment. For a couple of years, you couldn't buy a policy, regardless how healthy you were.

The answer is simple, in my opinion.

1. Give tax credits to those who buy. Impose tax penalties to those who don't. Use the income to subsidize premiums to those who cannot afford to buy.

2. Give a one time amnesty for individual enrollment.

3. Eliminate bankruptcy as a means to escape medical bills.

These measures would force the young/slackers to buy insurance, thus lowering costs for everybody.

Greg/Dene for President, 2012. Sarah will most definitely be my V.P. :smile

-Greg

 

[marvin4239]

Like Jay I'm fortunate to have medicare plus my Union (IBEW) supplemental plan for what medicare doesn't pay. In my case I've averaged at least two weeks in the hospital per year every since I retired for various problems. On retirement I enrolled in a plan called AARP Health Care Options. The plan I'm in is $16 per month and pays you directly $90 per day each day you are hospitalized. For me I'm probably thousands ahead on the deal. It's nice to get a little shot in the arm a couple weeks after a hospital stay to buy yourself a little get well toy.

 

[dotnmarty]

That's one thing that amuses me about Obama's plan is that he promises to reduce health ins. premiums and eliminate pre-existing conditions. You can do one or the other but not both, unless he gives a one time amnesty for blind enrollment. If he eliminates pre-ex, then people will wait until they are sick to buy. This happened in Washington state a few years ago. All the insurance companies incurred huge claim increases, then raised premiums 150%, then finally suspended individual enrollment. For a couple of years, you couldn't buy a policy, regardless how healthy you were.

The answer is simple, in my opinion.

1. Give tax credits to those who buy. Impose tax penalties to those who don't. Use the income to subsidize premiums to those who cannot afford to buy.

2. Give a one time amnesty for individual enrollment.

3. Eliminate bankruptcy as a means to escape medical bills.

These measures would force the young/slackers to buy insurance, thus lowering costs for everybody.

Greg/Dene for President, 2012. Sarah will most definitely be my V.P. :smile

-Greg

Here's some anecdotal evidence to show that all "pork" doesn't lie in D.C.

" How Can a $124.8 Million a Year CEO Make Health Care More Affordable?

An op-ed piece in the Providence Journal about huge pay packages for corporate CEOs mentioned the breath-taking $124.8 million total compensation of United Health Group (parent of United Healthcare) CEO William McGuire. This figure can also be found in the Forbes Special Report on CEO compensation. Here one can find that other managed care CEOs got less fabulous, but still formidable compensation, e.g., Howard Phanstiel, PacifiCare, 3.38 million; Edward Hanway, Cigna, $13.3 million; John Rowe, Aetna, $22.2 million; and Larry Glassrock, Wellpoint, $25.0 million.
McGuire's compensation was so large as to take a measurable part of this large company's net income (5%). Or to look at it from a stock-holder's (and hence, an company owner's) viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed as a dividend, it would amount to about a $0.20 per share dividend. (The current dividend is $0.03 per share.) (See company data available from Forbes as well.)
To look at it from a United employee's viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed to employees, each of the 40,000 employees could have received a bonus larger than $3000.
To look at it from the viewpoint of the health care system, the $124.8 million total compensation of a single United employee could pay the salaries of 833 general internists at current typical salaries. Or the $124.8 million could run one reasonable size community hospital for a year.
United Health Group's mission statement is "the company directs its resources into designing products, providing services and applying technologies that improve access to health and well-being services; simply the health care experience; promote quality; and make health care more affordable." (See this fact sheet.) Rather, it seems to be directing a good chunk of its resources into salaries of top management employees. How a $124.8 million CEO salary can be reconciled with a mission to "make health care more affordable" is completely beyond me.

posted by Roy M. Poses MD"

Access to health care is a right, not a privilege. The sooner we get a single payer system, the better.

MartyP

 

[Westfield 11]

Greg, the problem with your analogy is that in healthcare, everyone's house eventually catches fire. We cannot stop the ageing process. I can prevent my house from burning by doing common sense things like not leaving open flames etc. I cannot stop medical issues from occurring even though I practice good preventative habits( don't smoke tobacco, am not overweight, exercise,etc.). Despite our best efforts, our genes control our futures in this area, that and the basic ageing process, something we have NO control over.


What you are essentially saying is that healthcare is only for the young and anyone who gets old and suffers from the conditions related to ageing is just SOL. Because if you are able to live long enough, your house WILL catch fire no matter what you do to prevent it.

 

[marvin4239]

That's one thing that amuses me about Obama's plan is that he promises to reduce health ins. premiums and eliminate pre-existing conditions. You can do one or the other but not both, unless he gives a one time amnesty for blind enrollment. If he eliminates pre-ex, then people will wait until they are sick to buy. This happened in Washington state a few years ago. All the insurance companies incurred huge claim increases, then raised premiums 150%, then finally suspended individual enrollment. For a couple of years, you couldn't buy a policy, regardless how healthy you were.

The answer is simple, in my opinion.

1. Give tax credits to those who buy. Impose tax penalties to those who don't. Use the income to subsidize premiums to those who cannot afford to buy.

2. Give a one time amnesty for individual enrollment.

3. Eliminate bankruptcy as a means to escape medical bills.

These measures would force the young/slackers to buy insurance, thus lowering costs for everybody.

Greg/Dene for President, 2012. Sarah will most definitely be my V.P. :smile

-Greg

Here's some anecdotal evidence to show that all "pork" doesn't lie in D.C.

" How Can a $124.8 Million a Year CEO Make Health Care More Affordable?

An op-ed piece in the Providence Journal about huge pay packages for corporate CEOs mentioned the breath-taking $124.8 million total compensation of United Health Group (parent of United Healthcare) CEO William McGuire. This figure can also be found in the Forbes Special Report on CEO compensation. Here one can find that other managed care CEOs got less fabulous, but still formidable compensation, e.g., Howard Phanstiel, PacifiCare, 3.38 million; Edward Hanway, Cigna, $13.3 million; John Rowe, Aetna, $22.2 million; and Larry Glassrock, Wellpoint, $25.0 million.
McGuire's compensation was so large as to take a measurable part of this large company's net income (5%). Or to look at it from a stock-holder's (and hence, an company owner's) viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed as a dividend, it would amount to about a $0.20 per share dividend. (The current dividend is $0.03 per share.) (See company data available from Forbes as well.)
To look at it from a United employee's viewpoint, had McGuire, who is an employee, been only paid a cool million, and this money had been distributed to employees, each of the 40,000 employees could have received a bonus larger than $3000.
To look at it from the viewpoint of the health care system, the $124.8 million total compensation of a single United employee could pay the salaries of 833 general internists at current typical salaries. Or the $124.8 million could run one reasonable size community hospital for a year.
United Health Group's mission statement is "the company directs its resources into designing products, providing services and applying technologies that improve access to health and well-being services; simply the health care experience; promote quality; and make health care more affordable." (See this fact sheet.) Rather, it seems to be directing a good chunk of its resources into salaries of top management employees. How a $124.8 million CEO salary can be reconciled with a mission to "make health care more affordable" is completely beyond me.

posted by Roy M. Poses MD"

Access to health care is a right, not a privilege. The sooner we get a single payer system, the better.

MartyP

Oh goodness Marty some would call that redistributing the wealth. :wink:

 

[Dene]

Greg, the problem with your analogy is that in healthcare, everyone's house eventually catches fire. We cannot stop the ageing process. I can prevent my house from burning by doing common sense things like not leaving open flames etc. I cannot stop medical issues from occurring even though I practice good preventative habits( don't smoke tobacco, am not overweight, exercise,etc.). Despite our best efforts, our genes control our futures in this area, that and the basic ageing process, something we have NO control over.


What you are essentially saying is that healthcare is only for the young and anyone who gets old and suffers from the conditions related to ageing is just SOL. Because if you are able to live long enough, your house WILL catch fire no matter what you do to prevent it.

That's not my view at all. I'm a babyboomer and like many of us, I'm starting to fall apart. I pay $625/mo. to cover me and my family with a $3000 deductible plan. Insurance is most certainly for me, even though I'd love to put the $625/mo. toward a Ranger Tug. :>

The problem lies with not choosing to have coverage (usually due to having other priorities), getting sick, then expecting a health insurance company to pay for it. That's getting fire insurance while your house is on fire.

Regarding CEO compensation, I agree that it's disgusting. This should be reformed with all corporations, not just health care companies. Using the government to replace their services (single payor) would make the situation worse.

-Greg

 

[dotnmarty]

I certainly don't want to turn this into a political discussion. It's just that arguments against coverage of preexisting conditions get my goat. By excluding these groups the insurers decrease the risk and the actuarial denominator at the same time. They play with a stacked deck. If anyone thinks that no one pays for the care of the uninsured and the uninsurable, they are, well, mistaken. You pay for it.

 

[localboy]

Regarding CEO compensation, I agree that it's disgusting. This should be reformed with all corporations, not just health care companies. Using the government to replace their services (single payor) would make the situation worse.

-Greg

Agree 100%. The federal gov't is NOT KNOWN for being effecient.

 

[Dene]

I certainly don't want to turn this into a political discussion. It's just that arguments against coverage of preexisting conditions get my goat. By excluding these groups the insurers decrease the risk and the actuarial denominator at the same time. They play with a stacked deck. If anyone thinks that no one pays for the care of the uninsured and the uninsurable, they are, well, mistaken. You pay for it, you betcha.

True....excluding risk is a key element for insurance providers to keep costs down, especially with individual policies. (group insurance has no pre-ex). If individual rates were as high as group, then more people would fall off, increasing the amount of uninsured.

Regarding the uninsured, much of the 45 million fall into two categories. Illegal aliens and those who can afford insurance but choose not to buy, usually due to other priorities. I do not sympathize with either camp and I resent paying their medical bills when they show up in E.R. demanding care without paying for it, or trying to buy health insurance after the onset of the illness.

Again....those who buy should get a tax credit. Those who don't should be penalized.

-Greg

 

[Westfield 11]

Regarding CEO compensation, I agree that it's disgusting. This should be reformed with all corporations, not just health care companies. Using the government to replace their services (single payor) would make the situation worse.

-Greg

Agree 100%. The federal gov't is NOT KNOWN for being effecient.

In the case of healthcare the management cost of the Medicare system is IIRC around 3% this is around 1/2 the cost of the best managed private plans. Not everything the gov't is done inefficiently..... The IRS also has a very low overhead :xlol