Uh Oh!
- Thread starter El and Bill
- Start date
Westfield 11
New member
Dene":ags9pl0u said:
Greg, you are avoiding addressing my point. What about those who are willing to pay but are unable to get any profit making company to cover them? I am w/o coverage because I left a job and lost a group plan. I only have my expensive limited policy because a state gov't mandated that I be covered.
What happens if Joe the Plumber buys his business: with only one employee he will not be able to form a group and if he has any pre-existing condition from hangnails to heartburn he too will be barred from insurance. How is this like getting sick and then wanting to have an insurance company pay for it?
When you get right down to it, we all are sick. Everyone has some sort of condition that can be used to deny coverage, everyone. Using your logic only the perfectly healthy should be able to purchase health insurance and then if they get any chronic or ongoing health issue (high blood pressure, backache, hearing loss) they should be ineligible for any coverage if they ever have need of an individual policy or change jobs.
You have a dream policy where you only pay $645 a month for you, your wife and your entire family. (I know you would not agree.) I have a $500 yearly deductible, but I pay nearly 3x's what you do for just two people and my benefits are capped at $75k a year. I would guess that you have a group plan and that you benefit from having a large group of payers to support those that need services. This would NOT be the case if insurers could also reject people from employment based plans like they do for individual plans.
Michael
Westfield 11":27k3chnp said:
Your situation needs addressing on a Fed and state level. Cobra benefits should extend beyond 18 months and some smart legislation would do that.
Your problem also lies with the state you live in. My wife, who is uninsurable by Oregon standards, went on the high risk pool too but her premium was considerably less than your's for a superior plan. Same is true for Washington. In fact, you can buy an individual plan without underwriting if you transfer from a Cobra plan. So....California needs to duplicate what other states have done. Or....you could consider moving to Washington, acquire a good plan, and cruise Puget Sound. :lol:
As for Joe the Plumber, if he has one employee, then he's entitled to buy group insurance. If he's self employed, then individual plans are available to him if he's healthy enough prior to application. If he's not, then he probably shouldn't go into business.
Insisting health ins. companies forgo underwriting (i.e. assessing risk) is like mortgage companies lending to those who cannot afford it. The country doesn't need another mess like that.
-Greg
Dene":2ib3koja said:
Exactly. Therefore, if one grants that health care is a right, insurance companies and the administrative overhead layers they entail, have no "business" providing health care. OK, maybe supplementary insurance or serving as a strictly regulated fiscal intermediary for the single party payer.
Westfield 11
New member
Not to labor a point, but the whole problem is the concept of being " healthy enough to start a business". To reasonable people it means being able to perform the actions involved with that business. To a profit making health insurer, it means looking for any possible excuse to refuse coverage. Just look at what happened in CA recently. One of the biggest carriers spent millions on an entire department dedicated to reviewing applications and claimants for any possible excuse to refuse to pay claims. The Insurance Comissioner quite rightly fined them millions and had them pay back claims and reinstate people.
I also see where many CA hospitals have hundreds of millions of dollars in legitimate approved claims that are going unpaid for months and even years. This shameful behavior has resulted in cutbacks in services and even hospital closures. This is indicative of the main problem with "for profit" health insurance there is great financial incentive for rejection of claims, denial of coverage and refusal to enroll, but there is absolutely no incentive to pay claims or to cover treatment. Until that changes we will all be at the mercy of cold hearted bean counters.
Michael
I also see where many CA hospitals have hundreds of millions of dollars in legitimate approved claims that are going unpaid for months and even years. This shameful behavior has resulted in cutbacks in services and even hospital closures. This is indicative of the main problem with "for profit" health insurance there is great financial incentive for rejection of claims, denial of coverage and refusal to enroll, but there is absolutely no incentive to pay claims or to cover treatment. Until that changes we will all be at the mercy of cold hearted bean counters.
Michael
Jeff Brigner
New member
I have talked with a friend that said Canada's health care is not the answer :roll:
Maybe they all need to become C-brats and then the world would be a better place.
Maybe they all need to become C-brats and then the world would be a better place.
Westfield 11
New member
Greg, I just checked your profile and see that you work in the health insurance industry. I hope I did not make you feel as if I was personalizing this discussion as that was never my intent. Not only is it against the rules here, but I have always assumed that those with whom I disagree are honorable persons. If I have given offence, it was not my aim, and I apoligise if that happened. I still disagree with you though... 
Michael
Michael
Westfield 11":1ufw0jza said:Greg, I just checked your profile and see that you work in the health insurance industry. I hope I did not make you feel as if I was personalizing this discussion as that was never my intent. Not only is it against the rules here, but I have always assumed that those with whom I disagree are honorable persons. If I have given offence, it was not my aim, and I apoligise if that happened. I still disagree with you though...
Michael
Michael,
Apology not needed. I wasn't remotely offended. I'm in a tuff business where people often and legitimately vent their frustrations. You're in a tough spot. You have every right to be angry. How about moving? Puget Sound offers unique, year around boating.
As for the CA. insurer in question, one thing I've practiced during my 20 years is to never represent an insurance company "who plays games with claims." The last thing a sick person needs is that frustration. Consequently, I choose only quality companies with excellent track records. To date, I've never had a claim denied that wasn't legit.
PM if you like. I can give you the name of a California broker who operates with the same principles. Brokers have their ear to the ground and perhaps she knows a solution to your dilemma.
Until then, vent away!
-Greg
El and Bill
New member
October is traditionally a bad month in the markets, and this year was no exception. Back in October 1987, a year after we had left our jobs, sold our house, and 'hit the road' the S&P fell almost 22% in one day. That was a shocker. That drop was, fortunately, a short-term correction for most. This year, it took a month, but the S&P fell (to last Monday) 272 points for the worst month in 57 years and the second worst in history. What now?
Well, there are many articles about whether it is a half full or half empty glass, and, of course no one knows the future. Probably the most difficult aspect of the markets now is the extreme volatility. During the month, the Dow fell over 20%, and up to last Friday, never had two successive up days but also had two days where it roared upward over 10%.
Also, with many retirement 401K accounts, the finances of more folks are linked to the market than ever before so the effects of market movements are widely felt. In the past, most folks in retirement lived on their pension checks and social security. Now, there are increasing numbers of retirees who also draw from (or are dependent on) their 401K or IRA accounts. Consequently, movements in the stock markets are affecting many more retirees and also many of those who are thinking of retiring in the near future. It was formerly just the 'rich' who were shook-up by markets (of course, all were ultimately affected when companies cut jobs, banks foreclosed on houses, etc).
So, now with so many folks 'invested' in the market through their retirement plans, large movements change our view of our personal well-being. Over the past years, a generally up market in stocks and house values have given most a warm feeling of security - so we (collectively) did not save much, or easily went into debt. We could buy our boats, often using a loan, charge our fuel costs, pay high slip and storage fees, and enjoy life on the water, usually with little concern.
We have (at least temporarily, for sure) entered a different era. The wannabees will be more cautious since they will feel (and probably be) somewhat less affluent; those of us who have boats may plan our use of the boats somewhat differently. I know El and I have altered our boat use - we don't travel as far. We do not foresee any cut-back in our days on the boat, but long-distance trailer trips to new water, or long-distances on cruising routes, will probably be curtailed (fuel costs are back down, but still an important part of the long-distance cruising budget).
For some, thinking of buying a C-Dory, the smaller boat options will be more attractive - less initial cost, less per-foot expenses in owning, perhaps less fuel costs, etc. For others, unable to 'fit into' a smaller boat, it might mean waiting longer until savings are higher before purchase, rather than taking on more debt.
Perhaps we are in a major sea change in the economic world - the end of 'easy' credit and double digit annual rise in home values, perhaps a 'muddle' along time (after the volatility of the markets settle) in the stock market, an environment that requires more spending restraint and prioritizing of how we spend our money.
With unemployment and bankruptcies rising, and people generally reducing spending costs, we will probably see more used boats (at better prices) coming on the market. Folks who have a boat, and find they are seldom using it (for whatever reason) will feel more compulsion to sell the asset.
Since many boats traveling popular long-distance routes (the Great Loop, back east, or the Inside Passage, in the northwest) are big fuel-guzzlers there will be fewer boats doing long trips (we already have reports of that). This will make the cruise more enjoyable for those still on the water (fewer wakes from large boats, more solitude, etc.) but ... marina rates may go up as marina owners up rates to cover loss of business (this is being reported, also, at least in the east).
We all watch to see if there are signs of impending inflation or deflation, either of which will affect our financial lives. When there were indications of a slide into recession last January (the beginning of this thread), we shifted some investments into inflation-protection. We have since moved out of those since costs of energy have come down and we see few signs of inflation (stagflation) hitting us soon.
Fuel prices, for many reasons, discussed on another thread, have been on a roller coaster. They are now 'down' and not a major threat to our boating use.
The US dollar has gone up sharply (since the end of August (relative to most other currencies) and the Canadian dollar (relative to US) has dropped sharply since the end of September. This past week both those trends reversed. These fluctuations will affect all of us, since this affects import/export prices (and so much of our food, energy and 'consumer goods' are imported). Those boating near the Canada/US border will find all costs on the 'other side' changing and this will have an effect on longer trips (such as Washington to Alaska for US residents, or a summer in the San Juans, for Canadians).
Since we use our boat many days of the year (like many of you), these economic factors are important to us and in planning our boat use for the coming year. We have been interested in comments from others in the pub about these economic factors (and appreciate it when politics is left out).
We don't dwell on the risks of the future, but find some pondering to be of value for us. The sunrise over the lake out our window, or the smiles of kids at the door last night, absorbs more of our time and interest.
Well, there are many articles about whether it is a half full or half empty glass, and, of course no one knows the future. Probably the most difficult aspect of the markets now is the extreme volatility. During the month, the Dow fell over 20%, and up to last Friday, never had two successive up days but also had two days where it roared upward over 10%.
Also, with many retirement 401K accounts, the finances of more folks are linked to the market than ever before so the effects of market movements are widely felt. In the past, most folks in retirement lived on their pension checks and social security. Now, there are increasing numbers of retirees who also draw from (or are dependent on) their 401K or IRA accounts. Consequently, movements in the stock markets are affecting many more retirees and also many of those who are thinking of retiring in the near future. It was formerly just the 'rich' who were shook-up by markets (of course, all were ultimately affected when companies cut jobs, banks foreclosed on houses, etc).
So, now with so many folks 'invested' in the market through their retirement plans, large movements change our view of our personal well-being. Over the past years, a generally up market in stocks and house values have given most a warm feeling of security - so we (collectively) did not save much, or easily went into debt. We could buy our boats, often using a loan, charge our fuel costs, pay high slip and storage fees, and enjoy life on the water, usually with little concern.
We have (at least temporarily, for sure) entered a different era. The wannabees will be more cautious since they will feel (and probably be) somewhat less affluent; those of us who have boats may plan our use of the boats somewhat differently. I know El and I have altered our boat use - we don't travel as far. We do not foresee any cut-back in our days on the boat, but long-distance trailer trips to new water, or long-distances on cruising routes, will probably be curtailed (fuel costs are back down, but still an important part of the long-distance cruising budget).
For some, thinking of buying a C-Dory, the smaller boat options will be more attractive - less initial cost, less per-foot expenses in owning, perhaps less fuel costs, etc. For others, unable to 'fit into' a smaller boat, it might mean waiting longer until savings are higher before purchase, rather than taking on more debt.
Perhaps we are in a major sea change in the economic world - the end of 'easy' credit and double digit annual rise in home values, perhaps a 'muddle' along time (after the volatility of the markets settle) in the stock market, an environment that requires more spending restraint and prioritizing of how we spend our money.
With unemployment and bankruptcies rising, and people generally reducing spending costs, we will probably see more used boats (at better prices) coming on the market. Folks who have a boat, and find they are seldom using it (for whatever reason) will feel more compulsion to sell the asset.
Since many boats traveling popular long-distance routes (the Great Loop, back east, or the Inside Passage, in the northwest) are big fuel-guzzlers there will be fewer boats doing long trips (we already have reports of that). This will make the cruise more enjoyable for those still on the water (fewer wakes from large boats, more solitude, etc.) but ... marina rates may go up as marina owners up rates to cover loss of business (this is being reported, also, at least in the east).
We all watch to see if there are signs of impending inflation or deflation, either of which will affect our financial lives. When there were indications of a slide into recession last January (the beginning of this thread), we shifted some investments into inflation-protection. We have since moved out of those since costs of energy have come down and we see few signs of inflation (stagflation) hitting us soon.
Fuel prices, for many reasons, discussed on another thread, have been on a roller coaster. They are now 'down' and not a major threat to our boating use.
The US dollar has gone up sharply (since the end of August (relative to most other currencies) and the Canadian dollar (relative to US) has dropped sharply since the end of September. This past week both those trends reversed. These fluctuations will affect all of us, since this affects import/export prices (and so much of our food, energy and 'consumer goods' are imported). Those boating near the Canada/US border will find all costs on the 'other side' changing and this will have an effect on longer trips (such as Washington to Alaska for US residents, or a summer in the San Juans, for Canadians).
Since we use our boat many days of the year (like many of you), these economic factors are important to us and in planning our boat use for the coming year. We have been interested in comments from others in the pub about these economic factors (and appreciate it when politics is left out).
We don't dwell on the risks of the future, but find some pondering to be of value for us. The sunrise over the lake out our window, or the smiles of kids at the door last night, absorbs more of our time and interest.
Bill,
Some great points to ponder. We have traveled a lot in the six years since I retired-mostly by RV rather that C-Dory. In years past my wife enjoyed one or at most two nights on the boat at lakes near home. The trip to Lake Powell and spending 7 nights on the boat was a great treat and she seemed to enjoy it very much. We plan to do that again next fall. We had planned a summer long trip to Alaska next year but are now probably going to stay closer to home. Even though the cost of fuel seems to be coming back down, I am concerned about the loss of value in my retirement accounts. I have a great pension and great health care but the income from retirement accounts is what we use to travel. We will still be able to travel but just not as far.
Some great points to ponder. We have traveled a lot in the six years since I retired-mostly by RV rather that C-Dory. In years past my wife enjoyed one or at most two nights on the boat at lakes near home. The trip to Lake Powell and spending 7 nights on the boat was a great treat and she seemed to enjoy it very much. We plan to do that again next fall. We had planned a summer long trip to Alaska next year but are now probably going to stay closer to home. Even though the cost of fuel seems to be coming back down, I am concerned about the loss of value in my retirement accounts. I have a great pension and great health care but the income from retirement accounts is what we use to travel. We will still be able to travel but just not as far.
The changes that I witnessed boating out of Seward Alaska seemed to point to everyone shortening their trips. Gasoline quickly neared $5/gal in Seward this summer. Early in the season, the best places for salmon fishing are far out in Resurrection Bay.
I definitely limited my early season (May/June) trips far out there directly due to high fuel costs. I believe I witnessed others doing the same. The salmon were late this year as well so that skews my observations some. Reality was, I waited for the salmon to come to me as opposed to taking the 30nm round trip to go out to the head of the bay to catch fish early in the season. My primary consideration was fuel costs.
I feel very fortunate to have a C-dory in this economy but I still have changed my boating habits as a result of the high fuel costs. Luckily, my kids are still young enough where a trip to the fuel dock is still considered a boating adventure.
I definitely limited my early season (May/June) trips far out there directly due to high fuel costs. I believe I witnessed others doing the same. The salmon were late this year as well so that skews my observations some. Reality was, I waited for the salmon to come to me as opposed to taking the 30nm round trip to go out to the head of the bay to catch fish early in the season. My primary consideration was fuel costs.
I feel very fortunate to have a C-dory in this economy but I still have changed my boating habits as a result of the high fuel costs. Luckily, my kids are still young enough where a trip to the fuel dock is still considered a boating adventure.
El and Bill
New member
I've had a problem sleeping lately, so thought I'd ask Harvey, on Sleepy C, or anyone else who might be a polysomnographic technologist, (whatever in the world that is...) what they think of this sleeplessness.
First I thought it was the Daylight Savings Time syndrome. You know, Fall Back: Spring Ahead, that kind of thing. But two weeks of adjustment ought to resolve any question as to whether I am actually going to bed at 10:00 p.m. or is it 9:00 p.m.? Right Harvey?
So then I tried increasing my physical activity, like raking up the leaves every day. All that daily leaf raking seemed to do however was to introduce a new kind of bodily ailment, which I labeled, “Raking Aching” – and that certainly wasn't helpful for 8 hours of bedtime solace.
Then I switched my attention to the other side of the mind/body continuum and focused on what I was thinking as I tossed and turned at 3:00 a.m. Aha! It was the 661 point drop in the Dow in the last three days. And more specifically, the affect of the almost one year market collapse on my IRA.
"Who can I blame? What should I have done? What should I do now?" Oh dear! It’s 4:30 a.m. and pretty soon, with Daylight Savings Time, it’s going to be light outside.
But, Eureka!! -- I think I have found a solution!! I’m going to withdraw everything from my IRA and deposit what little remains in a savings bank which, as I was taught in elementary school by a representative of the Port Chester Savings Bank, was the safest depository for protecting your precious money. I will take the certificate of deposit to a local seamstress and have her design a pillow with a slot where I can insert the CD receipt and sleep soundly for the rest of my life knowing my head is resting on my IRA. No one can take any more of my life's savings from me without waking me up!
In fact, if this actually solves my sleeplessness, I will contact Harvey, if he's not snoozing, and see if he wants to join me in marketing this idea to recoup some of our lost savings. Maybe we can call it PENSION PILLOW: AN ANTIDOTE FOR THESE SLEEPLESS TIMES.
What do you think, pub mates? Wanna buy a PENSION PILLOW?
First I thought it was the Daylight Savings Time syndrome. You know, Fall Back: Spring Ahead, that kind of thing. But two weeks of adjustment ought to resolve any question as to whether I am actually going to bed at 10:00 p.m. or is it 9:00 p.m.? Right Harvey?
So then I tried increasing my physical activity, like raking up the leaves every day. All that daily leaf raking seemed to do however was to introduce a new kind of bodily ailment, which I labeled, “Raking Aching” – and that certainly wasn't helpful for 8 hours of bedtime solace.
Then I switched my attention to the other side of the mind/body continuum and focused on what I was thinking as I tossed and turned at 3:00 a.m. Aha! It was the 661 point drop in the Dow in the last three days. And more specifically, the affect of the almost one year market collapse on my IRA.
"Who can I blame? What should I have done? What should I do now?" Oh dear! It’s 4:30 a.m. and pretty soon, with Daylight Savings Time, it’s going to be light outside.
But, Eureka!! -- I think I have found a solution!! I’m going to withdraw everything from my IRA and deposit what little remains in a savings bank which, as I was taught in elementary school by a representative of the Port Chester Savings Bank, was the safest depository for protecting your precious money. I will take the certificate of deposit to a local seamstress and have her design a pillow with a slot where I can insert the CD receipt and sleep soundly for the rest of my life knowing my head is resting on my IRA. No one can take any more of my life's savings from me without waking me up!
In fact, if this actually solves my sleeplessness, I will contact Harvey, if he's not snoozing, and see if he wants to join me in marketing this idea to recoup some of our lost savings. Maybe we can call it PENSION PILLOW: AN ANTIDOTE FOR THESE SLEEPLESS TIMES.
What do you think, pub mates? Wanna buy a PENSION PILLOW?
El and Bill
New member
Great idea, Dave. We'll make you a production partner -- but no inflating with hot air, eh? We've had enough of that lately. And, liquid assets probably won't help either. Maybe, just keep up high interest in the Pension Pillow.
Well, I read an article in the NY Times today about how worried everyone is in a gated retirement community down in Florida. They were taking time from their painting class and tennis game to bemoan the fact they they might have to sell their house up north to make it through the downturn in the style to which they have become accustomed. Being no fan of gated communities since child hood, I couldn't feel bad for them from the start. One guy even complained that because of his good genes (his mother lived over 100 years etc.), he needed his million dollar nut (now worth 'only' $600,000) more than most.
This much I know, raking leaves like Bill says, and having a 16 footer is good medicine, any time, but especially in hard times. Hang in there guys, this too shall pass.
This much I know, raking leaves like Bill says, and having a 16 footer is good medicine, any time, but especially in hard times. Hang in there guys, this too shall pass.
El and Bill
New member
Almost a year ago we began this thread as a discussion regarding the possibility of an imminent slowdown in the economy that might lead to recession and how this might affect our boating.
Talk of a recession is not a happy discussion, but a necessary one for consideration of future boating decisions, especially for those of us who are retired (or about to be) and our income source is all or partly from investments. Some here in the pub (including us) have altered our investments and taken steps to reduce boating expenses due to the recession. Our boating season was either at less expensive slips and/or greatly reduced mileage.
Now there is another possibility we bring up for (unhappy, but hopefully thoughtful) discussion - a serious prolonged downturn in the economy that affects jobs, credit, and investments - and how this might affect our boating.
With the huge government expenditures to 'support' the economy, we thought the government printing machines cranking out money would result in inflation, so considered the possibility of moving some of our remaining investments into inflation-protected funds. That would have been a mistake - most have dropped about 10%.
What gives? A simple one-word answer - deflation. We knew houses were deflating, but after a sudden round of high fuel and food prices this summer we thought houses would stabilize with government help and that the recession might be similar to earlier ones - a period of stagflation. Stagnation with business readjustment and inflation. Wrong! It's not just houses that are deflating - so are most large commodities.
Sounds good, though, eh? Pay less for the biggies? No, sadly, it might be grim. Most biggies are bought with a loan (cars, houses, large furniture purchases, boats, etc) - We already have a much-publicized "credit crunch" due to bad loans for houses. Now, with a deflation of biggies, what bank wants to give a loan secured by a deflating-value car, boat, house, etc? So, the difficulty of securing a loan spreads since values are falling. House prices are way down. Great if you're buying, but what if you can't get a loan?
This deflation can then spread like a cancer - can't buy the biggies, companies can't sell them, they lay off workers or go bankrupt (Ford, GM, Chrysler), and those unemployed surely can't buy (even hard to get groceries), so the spiral can continue.
Investing has been a 'hobby' of mine since childhood - we bought our first boat with investment 'earnings.' And this is the first time I have seen this serious a downturn, accompanied by deflation. I remember my Dad, who got me started invested with a loan to buy some stock, telling me about his experiences in a similar economic environment - in the '30's.
None of us can predict the future - I am naturally an optimist - we will come out of it, of course. But how far down will it go first, how long will it stay down, how long will it take to recover? No one can answer those questions with any degree of certainty. But it's wise to consider the possibility of this "black swan" and take whatever steps seem appropriate for each of us. Boating has been one of our major expenses (living aboard and traveling long distances), so that is certainly an expense we reduced this year. Next year? We were considering trailering back east again and cruising on the Loop. Also, doing some boating again on the canals and rivers of Europe. Those ideas are now on the 'back burner.' Halcyon is in storage at Lake Powell, so we will probably cruise springtime there. Little trailering, many delightful anchorages, shorter cruising distances possible ... Summer? we'll keep the powder dry and wait on any decisions ... maybe back to the Pacific NW.
For those of you with the boat 'in the back yard' and mostly used for fishing or day trips, the state of the economy might have less effect. We spend considerable time and thought on choosing a boat, outfitting her, and developing skills to give pleasure and safety - we suggest large-scale economic considerations are also a good subject for the pub for many of us.
Talk of a recession is not a happy discussion, but a necessary one for consideration of future boating decisions, especially for those of us who are retired (or about to be) and our income source is all or partly from investments. Some here in the pub (including us) have altered our investments and taken steps to reduce boating expenses due to the recession. Our boating season was either at less expensive slips and/or greatly reduced mileage.
Now there is another possibility we bring up for (unhappy, but hopefully thoughtful) discussion - a serious prolonged downturn in the economy that affects jobs, credit, and investments - and how this might affect our boating.
With the huge government expenditures to 'support' the economy, we thought the government printing machines cranking out money would result in inflation, so considered the possibility of moving some of our remaining investments into inflation-protected funds. That would have been a mistake - most have dropped about 10%.
What gives? A simple one-word answer - deflation. We knew houses were deflating, but after a sudden round of high fuel and food prices this summer we thought houses would stabilize with government help and that the recession might be similar to earlier ones - a period of stagflation. Stagnation with business readjustment and inflation. Wrong! It's not just houses that are deflating - so are most large commodities.
Sounds good, though, eh? Pay less for the biggies? No, sadly, it might be grim. Most biggies are bought with a loan (cars, houses, large furniture purchases, boats, etc) - We already have a much-publicized "credit crunch" due to bad loans for houses. Now, with a deflation of biggies, what bank wants to give a loan secured by a deflating-value car, boat, house, etc? So, the difficulty of securing a loan spreads since values are falling. House prices are way down. Great if you're buying, but what if you can't get a loan?
This deflation can then spread like a cancer - can't buy the biggies, companies can't sell them, they lay off workers or go bankrupt (Ford, GM, Chrysler), and those unemployed surely can't buy (even hard to get groceries), so the spiral can continue.
Investing has been a 'hobby' of mine since childhood - we bought our first boat with investment 'earnings.' And this is the first time I have seen this serious a downturn, accompanied by deflation. I remember my Dad, who got me started invested with a loan to buy some stock, telling me about his experiences in a similar economic environment - in the '30's.
None of us can predict the future - I am naturally an optimist - we will come out of it, of course. But how far down will it go first, how long will it stay down, how long will it take to recover? No one can answer those questions with any degree of certainty. But it's wise to consider the possibility of this "black swan" and take whatever steps seem appropriate for each of us. Boating has been one of our major expenses (living aboard and traveling long distances), so that is certainly an expense we reduced this year. Next year? We were considering trailering back east again and cruising on the Loop. Also, doing some boating again on the canals and rivers of Europe. Those ideas are now on the 'back burner.' Halcyon is in storage at Lake Powell, so we will probably cruise springtime there. Little trailering, many delightful anchorages, shorter cruising distances possible ... Summer? we'll keep the powder dry and wait on any decisions ... maybe back to the Pacific NW.
For those of you with the boat 'in the back yard' and mostly used for fishing or day trips, the state of the economy might have less effect. We spend considerable time and thought on choosing a boat, outfitting her, and developing skills to give pleasure and safety - we suggest large-scale economic considerations are also a good subject for the pub for many of us.
Here we go again!!!
It won't be long for the boating industry to go under just like the auto has,
People do not really know just how bad of shape our country is in,
I bet C-Dory will down size and cut inside personal if they have not all ready,If they want to stay afloat they better start now and save what they have!!
Boats are not selling, People are having a hard time with everyday things like food, housing and this is just a start,
If the Auto Industry goes under THE BIG 3
We will see things that No One has Ever Seen in the Great USA!!!!
One thing we have going for Washington is
Microsoft,Boeing and Starbucks but its only a matter of time for them to be in trouble, People will stop buying coffee, stop taking trips and buying computers, they will not afford the internet,
How long can our government keep bailing out companys???
It won't be long for the boating industry to go under just like the auto has,
People do not really know just how bad of shape our country is in,
I bet C-Dory will down size and cut inside personal if they have not all ready,If they want to stay afloat they better start now and save what they have!!
Boats are not selling, People are having a hard time with everyday things like food, housing and this is just a start,
If the Auto Industry goes under THE BIG 3
We will see things that No One has Ever Seen in the Great USA!!!!
One thing we have going for Washington is
Microsoft,Boeing and Starbucks but its only a matter of time for them to be in trouble, People will stop buying coffee, stop taking trips and buying computers, they will not afford the internet,
How long can our government keep bailing out companys???