Solar or generator

A

Anita Marie

New member
We are planning to cruise north the next few years including Alaska. I was considering a solar system but am now thinking of a small portable generator instead.
With the lack of consistent sunshine I am leaning towards a generator. I have an older 1K Honda generator but think a 2K would be better.

Fred
 
Hi Fred,

We had solar on a previous sailboat - worked fine for our needs (there is a lot of sunshine in the Tropical Tip). It would not have been enough to handle our electrical needs on the CD-25... but, the Honda 2000 was definitely up to the job.

I know Brent and Dixie used solar successfully on their TomCat - hopefully, he will post his experiences here.

The issue I see is where to mount the panels if you intend to carry a dinghy on top of your boat. Our previous sailboat had an aft cabin, which was good real estate for the solar panel. It also didn't have a fridge (the biggest draw on Wild Blue).

Have fun with your cruise north - I'll be looking forward to your posts!

Best wishes,
Jim
 
Fred, you have seen our panels, here they are again. These are two Renogy 100 watt panels.

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For maximum efficiency, assuming you cannot mount them on a movable device to follow the sun (anybody who has figured out how to do that with two 100 watt panels please share!), they really need to be flat to the sky, not angled the way I have them. I am trying to figure out how support them under the outside edge to bring them up flat to the sky.

BTW, we sold our Alaska Series dinghy, so it won't be up there on the roof. We are awaiting delivery of our Sea Eagle 385 FastTrak 12 foot two seater inflatable kayak and the fancy electric inflator / deflator, so we may not even have anything up there on the roof in the future, and if that works out, the panels are definitely going to go up on the roof on Z brackets sealed with Dicor, way they are on my fifth wheel.

That said, you really need to think about your loads. You should consider a Victron or similar battery monitor if you don't have one, knowing your percentage of charge is pretty important for battery management not to mention peace of mind!

With the ARB freezer, our biggest load, the solar panels usually keep up during the day (that is, percentage of charge does not drop) but sometimes they do and sometimes they don't catch up the next day (that is, bring percentage of charge back to 100% by the end of the day). When they don't, you will want a generator (or to run your outboard) when you are staying in one spot for any length of time. We only had to run a generator once in two weeks at Lake Powell, even though we spent most of the time on the beach at Oak Canyon without moving the boat. This summer in the San Juans, as sunny as it was, more than once the solar panels did not bring us back up to 100% by dark (usually most of the way, say if when we got up the Victron showed 80% in the morning by the end of the day it would be back up to 90%). I wanted it at 100% when we turned in, so I ran the outboard a couple times.

Bottom line by me, it is sometimes necessary to supplement the solar with a generator or by running your outboard. Solar alone can sometimes be enough but not always.
 
Fred,

I have a Honda2000 and am very happy with it indeed. I suspect that a Honda1000 would do the jobs I need nearly as well, but with less convenience.

The only time I overload the 2000 is if I thoughtlessly attempt to run the microwave (700 watts) and the toaster (1000 watts) in the morning. The "real" limit on the 2000 is essentially 1600 watts, so I assume the 1000 sustained capacity would be more like 800 watts. The 1000 could be problematical.

My ultimate scheme is to use the generator only in the mornings. It's a bit of a hassle to set it up (the 1000 would be no different) with fueling, starting, laying out the power cord, etc; so I only want to do it once a day. Mornings are perfect since on Tosca things are very laid back in the mornings :wink:. We putz around and generally have all the time in the world in the mornings. We usually don't get underway until noon or so. Also, I must, and I mean MUST, re-heat my coffee 10 times in the morning (I drink it slowly). So that means using the microwave which pretty much requires a generator. So I'm running the generator anyway in the morning. I just installed a 35amp charger so that I can bring the batteries up (after the fridge being on all night) in an hour+. The charger takes about 500 watts, so a Honda1000 would only leave me 300 watts for other things......not enough. The simplest thing is to simply add up the wattage of what you do, when. That should dictate whether you need a 1000 or a 2000.

I have no experience with solar panels, but I would guess that the big consideration there would be how fast you need your amps. If you have a big enough battery bank so you can go a long time without charging; then the noiseless, hassle-free convenience of solar couldn't be beat. But if you need, as I do, a bunch of amps all at once -- such as in my morning ritual -- then solar isn't going to cut it. I have an inverter on board, but I rarely use it anymore since I learned the hard way how many amps get sucked from your batteries with that 10:1 voltage step-up. Take the microwave alone.....when it is running, albeit it don't often run long, it sucks 60 amps -- that's my full battery capacity (to 50% SOC) in an hour. Solar would require you to put such loads on your battery bank if you use 120v AC for much at all.

Lastly, I think the solar/generator decision might depend largely on one's cruising style. If one stays mostly in marinas with shore power, that would lean you toward solar; but we love to hang on an anchor in small, ignored coves. I do lots of things to avoid having to go to a marina :) -- the Honda2000 is just one of them.
 
Hey smckean (Tosca),

Just to throw out another idea:

There are hybrid systems. The solar system takes care of day to day activities. When there is a heavy load or no sun you can run the generator which will take care of the heavier load but will also recharge the batteries, usually through an inverter/charger combination.

It may not be cost effective for you as you'll probably have to switch out inverters, install charge controller for the solar system, etc. and I am a firm believer in the KISS principal (Keep It Simple Shipmate).

Just an idea.

Spuncopper
 
We have used only generators (except for battery maintenance of solar).

The EU 1000 will run a 30 amp battery charger. Don't count on the small guest charger which came with the boat. It will not run most appliances. 26# has a lot to do with why we have the 1000.

We have also owned the 2000, runs (alone) microwave, water heater, toaster oven, coffee maker etc.

There is only 8 amp 12 volt, output from any of the Hondas.

In AK there are lots of clouds and fog. You can also figure on the amount of output from the engine alternator; if you run it enough each day.

Inverters take lots of battery power...more than most solar chargers can supply--unless full bright sun, and tracking.

With our 25, running the engine almost every day--stopping at docks about every 4th day (average), but not always having having power we ran the built in refrigerator. We used the Honda on occasions--but not regularly. The dock power did top off the batteries.

We don't see set up or starting the generator as a big issue. Runs several days on fill up, takes a couple of minutes to put on its platform, and plug in the cord, rig the battery charger.
 
Fred, you've been on this site for years. In addition, I know you've been up to at least Desolation Sound. So why are you posing this question? Just asking what is the intent of this question so maybe we all can give you a better answer. So far, all the answers are what we use, not trades or what we think is better.

By the way, I've been up the inside passage to Jeaneu. Coldest, wettest summer I've ever experienced. Even beat Frisco for gloom. Not solar panel country.

Boris
 
Good questions Fred.

From what I have read, the Honda 2000 is needed to run the hot water heater onboard the 25. It would be great to have hot water on an extended trip up north.

Perhaps a clarification from Dr. Bob on the "portable" battery charger is needed. Is the portable simply plugged into the generator and then clipped onto the posts of the house batteries?

Dr. Bob has also recommended changing out the stock Guest onboard charger to the Mastervolt brand, maybe a clarification on that would help, too.

I think it would be ideal to have the hybrid system of both solar and generator as solar is getting more affordable all the time, just M2 cents.
 
Two Renogy 100 W flexable panels keep our Norcold ref. and the Waeco freezer going 24/7, however if you want to shower with hot water we fire up the Honda 2000. First shower in 20 minutes. If you have room I'd vote for both. You could get by with a Honda 1000 for less weight and bulk. The NW and Alaska are not particularly friendly to solar. I'd vote for the generator in your situation.
 
Discovery":3bn1kkfq said:
Two Renogy 100 W flexable panels keep our Norcold ref. and the Waeco freezer going 24/7, however if you want to shower with hot water we fire up the Honda 2000. First shower in 20 minutes. If you have room I'd vote for both. You could get by with a Honda 1000 for less weight and bulk. The NW and Alaska are not particularly friendly to solar. I'd vote for the generator in your situation.
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Brent, it may not be an "either or" situation for Fred. I agree, I vote for both! We have solar and a Honda 1000i generator. We used to have a 2000i but it is so dang heavy it got to be too much for me to move around, the 1000i is 20 lbs less, suits me much better!
 
With a large roof available, I guess it comes down to hot water. Do you want to heat the water tank away from dock power regularly? A generator is a real option for running the hot water system as installed on the 25. Although it can be modified to run with less power as well.

Some friends of ours just got back from 4 months of Alaska cruising with a new set of solar panels on the Bimini of their 40ft sailboat. They also carry a Honda Eu2000 generator and are used to running it every other day away from the dock for the past few years. They only ran the generator once in 4 months of cruising up north and that was with power hungry guests on board for more than two of those months. Worked better than they imagined and that was with very few days of full sunshine.

Think hard about your hot water/shower plans and then you are ready to make some choices.

Greg
 
I have zero knowledge/experience w/ solar. We do use a Honda 2000 however. More than worth the money/hassle IMO. Charges batteries, heats water, runs the micro-wave etc. I made a 6' power cord myself w/ supplies from an industrial electrical supply house and a simple stand for the splash well out of Starboard. Sure you have to carry some extra gas but I just use a small 1 gallon fuel can for both the gen and dinghy engine.

I imagine solar would be great, assuming their is all day sun...but to us nothing beats a warm shower after a long day of boating, hiking, whatever. We do NOT go to bed "dirty".
 
Hm, no answer from Anita Marie/Fred. However, most seem to favor generators, especially the Honda 2000 for heating water.

So, what I did instead of getting a Honda 2000 was to replace the heating element in the water heater. If one goes with the 240 v element and runs it on 120 v, the power used drops by a factor of 4. Longer to heat, but then one can run a Honda 1000 to heat the water AND charge the batteries.

Works for me.

Boris
 
That conversion (with Honda 1000) worked for us too Boris but we still found ourselves using the shower very seldom on our relatively short trips and frequent marina visits. Baby wipes to the rescue!

If the head was more spacious, we would have showered in there more often. We did use it a few times just to give Aven a bath!

Greg
 
We love our Honda 2000! We used it regularly when we were on the hook this summer in the Chesapeake running the a/c in 90 degree temperatures. You probably won't have that to deal with that in AK, but there are still plenty of uses for it.

I do recommend getting an ancillary fuel tank, because you'll only get a few hours run-time under load
 
If you are going to cruise SE AK you can do some stuff with solar. I've used solar in SE successfully, but it can be a scarce resource. If you are going to rely on a generator you will need to have extra gas. That can be a factor, depending on how long and far you are going and if you can resupply.

I like solar for a lot of reasons if you are out for a long time, but if I were cruising a couple days at a time and coming into port I might opt for the all-weather security of a generator in the rainforest, as the extra fuel would be negligible, maybe even contained in the tank of the generator itself!
 
A Honda 2000 generator has worked out well for us for our last 5 extended Alaska cruises & agree with others for Alaska, the generator, the better choice between it & solar if both not possible. We always carry extra fuel & that could be a problem for those who don't. For the last 4 extended SE Alaska cruises & on any future ones the Honda generator is on our high priority list to have aboard.

As for a shower everyday or after physical exertion before going to bed being a must. Its the water supply not the heating of the water that will be the more prohibitive factor, unless one limits an extended cruise to basic fast runs between marinas or has a water maker aboard too. I also prefer to have a shower every day at home, but if off adventuring, we can survive quite well & not consider ourselves dirty, if the type of shower & duration between is adjusted & extended to match the water available. If a refreshing shower every day was that big a priority to us, most of the grand adventures, that made my life fulfilled, would have had to be eliminated & so I think would others, who feel a shower every day a necessity. On the other hand in SE Alaska, you're seldom far from very refreshing ice cold streams, if staying totally clean is a high enough priority. Years ago on our many day mountain hikes, my boys didn't hesitate to jump into even the coldest of waters to clean up, with me it's a little ice water goes along way.

Jay
 
After my 68 nights on board, up at the north end of Vancouver Island, I am strongly considering some supplemental power source too. If I didn't move, I had to run the OB's, (one of them) for at least 30 minutes to have enough power for the CPAP for the night, plus, a small Garmin GPS for anchor watch, and the LED anchor light, and the Auto Bilge pump, which ran several times a night due to all the rain.

I also sleep on the boat when trailering, (Boaterhoming) and need to have charging capability for more than one night there also. So I have been looking towards solar. You may not have full sun up north, but you do have the advantage of 16 to 18 or more hours of daylight.

On a 22, the space limitations and weight for me almost preclude a generator, even the 1000, so I'm looking at solar, good sized panels, to make up for the lower level of light intensity.

Nothing specific yet.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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