Sam on Drones

starcrafttom":303ha7p5 said:
Well I took a look at the app again and its kind of a joke, or the rules are. My house sits at the cross road of 3 " airports" 5 mile ring. Two of the so called airports are PRIVATE HOMES that have helicopters. How some rich guys private runway that gets used twice a month in the summer rates as a do not fly zone at my house is beyond me. But how we have to be licensed , controlled and restricted to fly a Drone when for the last 50 years or more people have been flying radio controlled planes, choppers and gliders all over the whole country with out one accident involving a radio controlled object and a real plane is beyond me and common sense.

I hear ya Tom! I've been flying R/C aircraft and helicopters since the 1980s and my dad before me since the 1960s (in fact in the 1970s he and a friend built an early version of a "drone" which was a twin engine biplane rigged with a servo-actuated 35mm camera or a 8mm movie camera... I still have some of those B&W areal shots of the flying field, my dad may even still have the movie reels too).

Anyway, the big difference between those RC hobbyists of years past and the present day is that prior to about 15 years ago and the introduction of inexpensive micro electronics, better battery technology, and fly-anywhere "park flyers", the RC craft of yesteryear were almost exclusively flown at dedicated flying fields, where all pilots are required to have club memberships, demonstrate competence through some sort of training and solo program, and to purchase insurance through the AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics), which has its own set of strict flying rules to ensure public safety. But, nowadays anyone can pick up a drone and fly it from anywhere or anything, and too many people have done so without any common sense or courtesy of others, thus ruining the fun for everyone and potentially threatening the entire hobby.

Personally I find the drones intriguing because I love taking photos on the water, but even though I'm an experience RC pilot, I'm still reluctant to consider flying one from a boat, knowing how easy it is to have a glitch of some sort or a failed battery send it crashing into the water, as seen in one example on Sam's video. But I keep looking at them and hope to try it someday before they are banned altogether!

-Mike
 
Pat give yourself plenty of battery time to land say 35 percent and you'll have a great time. I came down with a dead battery one time almost jumped off the boat trying to catch it. Can't wait to see the photos and video you come up with. I think if you learn how to launch and retrieve off of the scooter the boat will be easy.
 
There is a video online of some guy who flew his drone off of his pontoon boat on some lake. Things were going well until the drone decided to return to home.

There was a race between the boat and the drone. The drone won.

FWIW, I have a Phantom drone. For the most part I have stopped flying it because the hassle out weighs the fun. You can't fly it in any national park and most state parks. City parks are generally off limits too. There is no RC model flying within 15 nmi of DC (at one point it was 30 nmi).

Technically I can't fly it in my own backyard (below treetop level or even house level) without permission because I live within 5 miles of an airport. If you can get a hold of anyone at a control tower (generally the numbers are unpublished) the default answer typically is "no" because the controller can be liable if he says yes and there is an incident.

There a laws and fines against flying without proper authorization. Yeah, the odds of getting hassled by LEO is low but why deal with that.

I have been told to land and stop flying my drone by a ranger at the flying field in Lake Mead NP (the only place in a National Park where you CAN fly a RC model). He never asked to see my FAA ID number.

There is also a video online of a guy being assaulted by a woman near some beach because he was flying his drone nearby. The woman did get arrested, but only after assaulting the drone operator until the cops showed up. The guy had the sense to record the whole thing and not to fight back.
 
DJI Mavic

Thanks Jody,
Far better than the foldable I stumbled upon in the B & H Blog!

How high was the drone when you shot the beautiful photo above?

Where do you launch the drone from your C Dory (cabin top, fore deck, cockpit)?
 
thataway":uuwd8j31 said:
DJI Mavic

Thanks Jody,
Far better than the foldable I stumbled upon in the B & H Blog!

How high was the drone when you shot the beautiful photo above?

Where do you launch the drone from your C Dory (cabin top, fore deck, cockpit)?

I was only up about 50 feet that is a bracketed photo 3 pictures merged togeather. Amazing how stable it is. To launch I use the cabin top and a round disc. I also sometimes just stand on the swim step and hand launch. You just need to get up above everything fast. The Phantoms are easier to hand launch and retrieve but the Mavic is just so compact. I'll try to find a picture of my launch pad.
 
ssobol- My father and brother and other friends flew there Rc planes at the house in the street. At the school in the fields and just about any where they wanted. Never at a club. So Its been going on for a long time. I truly think that joe public hears DRONE and thinks I am going to launch missiles at them. A complete over reaction. Five miles from a non commercial fight air port is just to much. We don't have a air tower here in Arlington. There is no one to call, not that I would. The app has every old unused private strip in the state marked out as a 5 mile no fly zone. I under stand not flying around commercial air Fields, Not that any drone is a danger to a jet airlines any more then a goose is, but to mark all of these piss ant home fields. Many of which are not even used ???

I have a mavic and after a foreseen in door crash I have it back from the shop and will be flying it very soon in my yard.
 
My understanding was 5 miles for class B airports there is 1 Salt Lake International. I am 9 miles from there but the Mavic says I am in class B space. I don't think you can get a correct answer off of the internet because you might be readings someone's opinion on the subject. Even the FFA sites isn't clear. With all the paranoia everyone thinks about them we would have ground all aircraft from flying. It seems we are creating laws for a one time event. With 300 million people in the country idiots are going to do stupid things and that includes the FFA. We should just go back to if you hurt someone or damage something you are liable and you should be responsible for the damages. It's already covered by law and we don't need any new ones.
 
This is what I use to land and take off from the boat the colored disc on the top wasn't cheap it's used to tow behind the boat and give rides to the kiddies.

LP4102016021.jpg
 
With the Yuneec Q500 4K, I can accurately land in about a 3 to 4 foot diameter space. I have not tried to hand retrieve, and have flown a bunch of times with no crash. I registered mine with the FAA on the first day of required registration. It would take a still-water, no-wind day before I would consider retrieving on a boat. As mine comes into ground effect, there is some upward (bounce) before the landing... something to keep in mind for those considering use on a boat... any wind or boat movement could take the drone outside that target diameter.

I have a commercial pilot's license, multi-engine, instrument. Over 4,000 PIC hours. I have dealt with the FAA. Whether you agree with them or not, air space is federal - violate restricted airspace and you are messing with the Feds. Flying these things is supposed to be fun (unless you have a commercial license), but getting yourself in hot water over essentially a toy won't be much fun.

I don't take a cavalier attitude about the use of a quad (or hex) copter. I find that I don't use it as much as I thought I would, based on air space restrictions and public reaction.
 
Talk about public reaction: I just got an complaint on the neighborhood app:NextDoor. A neighbor felt that someone flying a drone over his house at 7: PM was criminal trespass. I suspect that the folks renting the house next to us may be the culprit. He got a drone for Christmas...The only one I know of in the hood.

Looked up Florida laws, and they are interesting:

From Title XLVII: 934.50 “Freedom from Unwarranted Surveillance Act.”

.
(b) A person, a state agency, or a political subdivision as defined in s. 11.45 may not use a drone equipped with an imaging device to record an image of privately owned real property or of the owner, tenant, occupant, invitee, or licensee of such property with the intent to conduct surveillance on the individual or property captured in the image in violation of such person’s reasonable expectation of privacy without his or her written consent. For purposes of this section, a person is presumed to have a reasonable expectation of privacy on his or her privately owned real property if he or she is not observable by persons located at ground level in a place where they have a legal right to be, regardless of whether he or she is observable from the air with the use of a drone.

I believe that this is written mostly for law enforcement, but the complainant is taking the position that if this drone was even observing him or his back yard, it was a violation of his privacy and thus illegal in itself...

Any comment from those who fly these, or have legal backgrounds...Heck I was just looking forward to consider buying a drone....I pointed out to the neighbor, that they were useful to boaters who needed to find a way thru waters, like ours where there is a bayou, with various twists and turns....(not in this case however).
 
That one every state and city is going to have all kinds of laws about that. One of the things I do for my job is put up security cameras I can put up a camera that points right at the neighbors padio and as long as I can't see into the house there is nothing they can do about it. They can always plant a tree or a bush or hang a flag to block its view. If you ask who owns the air space the FAA will say they do. If you ask the rangers at Yellowstone they say they do and the FAA says they don't. My neighbors don't seem to get to excited if I fly over their house but I'm usalley 100 feet above that. Most of the time I'm at 15 feet fly figure eights. There is nothing of interest at home to take pictures of so I just practice or learn more features. Go over to your neighbor show him your new drone ask him he would like some cool pictures of his house.
 
A Washington court has quashed the FAA’s drone registration program. The court ruled Friday that the registration rule violates the FAA Modernization and Reform Act, passed by Congress in 2012, that specifically bars the FAA from creating “any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft.” Since December of 2015, the FAA has required drone owners to register drones weighing between .55 pounds and 55 pounds by filling out an online form and paying $5.

The FAA is considering its next move. It could appeal the ruling but that could be a lengthy and expensive process since it was a panel of three judges that quashed the rule. A more direct route would be to have Congress include a registration requirement in the FAA reauthorization bill that must be passed by September. The registration program was enacted to provide some measure of control and legal leverage over an explosion of consumer drones on the market. So far 820,000 drones have been registered. The ruling came from a challenge by model aircraft buff and insurance lawyer John A. Taylor. The judges agreed that the program “directly violates [a] clear statutory prohibition."

The specific rule is as follows: PUBLIC LAW 112–95—FEB. 14, 2012

H. R. 658—62:.SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—
(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community- based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
(3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program adminis- tered by a community-based organization;
(4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and (5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the
airport)).
(b) STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system.
(c) MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘model aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is—
(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
H. R. 658—68
(2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and
(3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

We had somewhat of a "battle" in our neighborhood, which is a 'no fly" zone, because of proximity to 3 airports, including NAS Pensacola. One of the neighbors was upset because a drone was flying over his property. All of a sudden that drone ended up in a tree on his property, despite the owner being on the street and in visual contact. The property owner (an attorney) will not make any comment as to what happened! During the heat of the issue, local Sheriff was called,---they referred to FAA--who didn't follow up. The Navy guys who owned that drone have moved out of the area.
 
King Harbor in Redondo Beach, CA has signs prohibiting drones over the marina. It makes sense with all the masts and rigging, but while I was working on my boat last month I heard a loud buzzing and looked up to see a drone a few feet above me. I thought about grabbing it with my fishing net I have on a long pole.
 
Airports are not no fly zones. You can still fly in those areas you need to contact the tower and notify them when and where you intend to fly. You are not asking for there permission just telling them where you are going to be so they can watch other aircraft. If I am in a true no fly zone my Quads will not even turn on. I can override that but chose not to.
 
You can also get an exemption that will allow you to fly in areas others cannot. They take 6 months or so to get through that process. So the person thinking that you can't fly where you are might just be wrong.
 
FAA to some degree has total control over drones (realize that is an inconsistent statement, but it is largely true). Hence localities cannot pass finely crafted laws regarding drones. Unintended consequences.

Bremerton at the behest of the Kitsap Naval Bases has been asked to restrict drones for security reasons. Reasonable - yes. But because they cannot regulate flight they have to fall back on regulating take offs and landings. Hence for miles around downtown no flight operations will be allowed.

There are myriad occasions for wanting to fly drones and do photos. Drones should not be allowed within a few hundred feet of the bases or military operations. But reasonably, we should be able to fly drones not more than a hundred feet high within much of the rest of the city. Cities are not allowed to make that sort of distinction. grrrrrrr!
 
I am in the middle of starting a program at the County level for internal use and the confusion out there about what you can and can't do is frustrating and comes both from operators and non-operators. I have spent about 3 years becoming familiar with the details and grey areas and it sure keeps a person busy!

Greg
 
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