Ride Performance- CD25 vs CD22

J

Jeanie P

New member
Going into 1 ft chop, which boat would give the better ride? Consider both boats equiped the same with the same fuel ,water, people on board. Can you compare both boats at 12mph and 9 mph neither which give a CD22 a good ride.

I quess my question should be, does the CD25 give a decent ride going into 1 ft chop at 12mph and 9 mph?

Allan
 
Heavier/bigger boat, better ride in the conditions you mention. Do (guess I should say "did" you) you have trim tabs on your 22? If not, trimming the bow down in a light chop will help considerably!

Charlie
 
I have never been on a 25 footer so I can't answer your question. My guess, worth absolutely nothing, is that the flat bottom has way more to do with the ride than the extra 3 feet. This post reminded me of a 'cruise' I took across the Atlantic on a heavy cruiser. The big ships were squared off in the middle, with the USS Albany (a heavy cruiser), the USS Wisconsin (a battleship) , the Colusahatchee and the Allagash ((tankers) at the corners, surrounded by a circle of destroyers and destroyer escorts. The big ships proceeded as if on glass with, on occasion, even the Wisconsin's band playing merrily on the quarterdeck, while the DD's and DE's were bouncing around like, well, tin cans.
 
In 1 foot chop I set the tabs to lower the bow and doing 17mph my soda can sat on the dash and did not spill a drop. Just set the tabs and watch the speed.
 
There is a world of difference in the ride and handling between my previous CD22 and my current CD25. I think the biggest advantage is in the weight. A 1' chop would bounce the 22 around pretty good if going very fast, and because the chop on the river here is most always due to wind against the current, the 22 would get pushed around quite a bit when going slower. Most cases, my 25 will not even notice a 1' chop and doesn't have to slow down much, although the conditions would require a bit more diligence watching for steeper waves and other boat wakes combined with the chop.

The heavier boat is also much better in bigger water and closely spaced 4' to 5' waves. Several times I have been caught on the wrong side of a nasty stretch of river, and although I never enjoy the ride through, I do not get nearly as nervous on the 25 as I did the 22. (I have a few more years experience, which contributes to that some, however.) But I will say this: When the 25 falls down off the top of a good size wave, it hits considerably harder than the 22!

The CD25 is a lot less prone to getting shoved around when conditions require slowing down. Sometimes with the 22 I would have keep the speed up and contend with getting beat up just to keep the boat aimed straight through the water. With the 25 I can usually keep the speed timed to the waves to pick the smoothest ride.

My opinion: Huge difference. But the biggest plus for me is in handling rather than speed. To answer your question directly, a 1' chop that would slow a 22 down to 12mph or 9mph probably wouldn't even be noticed in a 25.

On another note, the CD22 got 5 miles per gallon on the river and ocean - always - and the CD25 gets 2mpg. The CD22 fished a whole bunch better, too. The ride and the room of the 25 is nice, but if you don't need the room, the 60% drop in fuel economy just for the ride might not be worth it.
 
Yep. There are some conditions (like chop) where "more is better." :wink: One foot chop doesn't slow us down on Wild Blue. Mid to upper teens is still a comfortable ride. Trim the bow down and you're good to go. Keep in mind that the 25 is +/- a ton heavier than a similar equipped 22 (OK, I'm underestimating), so you're going to use more fuel moving that extra mass.

I don't like to pound. When conditions warrant, we slow down. Chop can be different, depending on how close, how shallow, etc.

Best thing would be to snag a ride on a 25 to see the difference.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
l agree with above comments, that the 25 handles chop much better. It was one of the reasons we went from a 22 to a 25. But...we did have both trim tabs and Permatrim on the 25. Both of these make a difference. We ran the 25 without the Permatrim for a year, and then added it. It made the planing speed lower, and gave a better attitude. It allowed us to proceed at a faster speed in chop with less discomfort. But the 25 does have a limit in chop. We ran into this several days on our Alaskian triip this last summer. One of these days we stopped early, the other we fell in behind a 57 foot seiner going 9 knots (slowing to 6 when she hobby horsed)--so the conditions were definately rough. In up to 3 1/2 foot chop the Tom Cat trumps the 22 and 25. But when you get over that size, the Tom Cat will tend to slam at lower speeds. On the other hand, 3 1/2 foot chop is substantial.
 
OK, I'll weigh in here, and probably David should too - we have each had both CD22s and CD25s (and CD16s too!).

First off, I don't understand "12mph and 9 mph neither which give a CD22 a good ride" going into a 1 foot chop. Those are the speeds that DO give a CD22 good ride going into a 1 foot chop. The speeds that DON'T give a CD22 a good ride going into a 1 foot chop are 15, 17, 20 mph, etc. - a lesson it took us a good part of 2003 to figure out! You must have trim tabs, you must get the bow down, you must slow down to 12 mph. But if you do those things, the CD22 handles a 1 foot chop just fine.

Now, on the CD22 - CD25 comparison, well, there just isn't any comparison, like Jim and Tyboo said. Marty - let me take you out some time! Tyboo nailed it, we barely notice conditions in the CD25 Daydream that sometimes used to jar our fillings loose in tge CD22 Daydream. Beam, length, weight - the combination makes the CD25 just a lot more comfortable and stable.
 
Thanks for all the replies.
The reason I chose 12mph and 9 mph is because I have a bad back and those were the limits on the Jeanie P which I could handle physically and still get somewhere, even though it may have been for only short time.

Any jarring would bring me some discomfort. How much was enough varied greatly day to day.

I had both permatrim and trim tabs to keep the bow down.

I'm hoping to someday get back into the helm of a C-Dory. Which one and when are still a distant dream. One that I begin each day with when I have my morning coffee and pull up this web site.

Allan
 
I don't have a 22, but I have to say, I was thrown intially by my CDory's pounding in chop....until everyone here told me to get either trim tabs or hydrofoil/permatrim. I can now easily take 1 ft chop with my bow down, no problem, without pounding. The bow of the CDory, when down, really knocks the chop down and yet you still stay on a plane.
 
We don't know at this point, as we haven't seen a performance chart on the 26. I would expect a 10 - 20% decrease in economy, if the numbers are similar to the difference betwen the 22 and 23.

I know Marc has a couple of 26's in stock, but I don't know if he's done any fuel usuage runs on them. 175 seems to be the powerplant of choice on the 26, as opposed to the 150 seen on most 25's.
 
Duff
According to the factory web site, the CD25 gets slightly better mileage than the Venture 23. It presently does not list the mileage performance of the Venture 26.

Matt - I would assume that the Venture 26 would get even less mileage than the Venture 23 which would eliminate it from any consideration I might have in replacing the Jeanie P.
Projecting into the future, with all boats performance staying the same,
it would be between CD22 and CD25. The major issue would be about fuel costs and ride and wether the loss of any fuels savings is made up in comfort by the few times I would really need to operate in 1 ft chop at speeds previously indicated.
Allan
 
All boats are trade offs. Balancing comfort and economy is always tough, as deeper V hulls, larger hulls and heavier hulls tend to ride better, but get worse economy than smaller, lighter boats.
 
Hello Allan,

I'm skeptical of the C-Dory website's mpg figures for the 23. They seem low.

My 23 routinely gets 3.7-3.9 mpg as an average for a 45-50 mile fishing trip. The 50 or so miles consists of about 2 hours trolling at 4-5 mph and the remainder running at 4000 rpm (approx 22-24 mph). My boat is powered with a Honda 135 and I'm usually carrying 3-4 people, lots of fishing gear, 2 coolers/ice, full fuel, 20 gal water, etc.

Jim on JennyKatz gets better mileage than me with a similar boat. Maybe he'll chime in.

/david
 
We moved up from a 16' to a 25' Cruiser in October. What a difference in handling! We only have around 20 hours on the new boat so far.

Compared to the 16' & the 22' Cruisers we rode in, the 25' is much more comfortable in light wind & chop. I've also found the 25' is a bit easier to maneuver in the harbor.

What I'm still trying to figure out is the best tilt & trim settings to improve fuel economy. We have trim tabs, but no permatrim. I've contacted several folks about the best tilt & trim adjustments on the 25' cruiser for handling. General consensus was to tilt the motor all the way down to push the bow down and use trim tabs to adjust to plane. Anyone have other preferences?

Thanks :)
 
Just thought I would chip in. We don't have too many hours on our 23 Venture as yet but 2010 should fix that. It is rigged with twin 60hp Yamahas and I really love these motors. The fuel management system tells me I am getting a fairly consistent 3.5 to 3.7 mpg once I get over the 10 mph point. I can take it up to the 323 - 34 mph range without seeing much of a drop below 3.2. Below 10 mph of course the boat is an economical dream for a 23 footer. If I was trolling and then running as mentioned I would expect to see the 3.7 to 3.9 range overall as well.

I compare this with my old 23 Whaler with a 225 Optimax when 1.2 mpg was a good number. Of course you can't compare the boats. I didn't have a fridge or a heater in the Whaler and it was 8 mph or 22 mph, nothing in between. Then again 32 mph in 3 footers was a real sweet spot.

I suspect I could have got better mpg in a 22 but that extra 1000 lb sure flattens the lumps better. On the other hand I don't trailer. If I did I wouldn't like that 1000 lbs. As everyone keeps saying, it's compromise, compromise. Just like marriage really :wink:

Chimo
 
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