Removable A/C for TomCats

D

drjohn71a

New member
Finally got it figured out. The older, 9,000 Btu 'test' unit was not enough to cool down on a humid, mid 90's day. I found a new 12,000 Btu unit at Pep Boys for $479. They have a 9,000 Btu unit for $379. I know, alot more than those cheap, 5,000 Btu window units, BUT - no holes, no screws, very quiet, lightweight, etc..

The newer, 12k unit acutally uses LESS electricity than my old 9k unit did: 965 Watts, 8.5 amps running and about 15.3 amps starting, using a delayed start, rotary compressor. The newer unit is also smaller and lighter, and comes with built-in Ground Fault interuption circuit. It has HEPA and Carbon filters, as well as wheels to wheel it up and down the dock.

The newer unit DOES NOT NEED A CONDENSATE DRAIN HOSE. It can clear 64 pints of water per day thru the evaporative, hot air discharge. Soooo, no holes in your boat!

The plastic window flanges that come with it (they give you three) can fit into the normal sliding windows, or can be cut to fit the TomCat's screen flanges on the forward bunk ports. I just cut out an upward offset hole in a piece cut to fit the screen template and glued the tube fitting to that. Very easy to place and remove from the window.

Although I don't foresee trying to use the A/C during a storm at sea, I'm trying to figure out how to put a cowling over that exhaust setup to deflect water.

Anyway, the 12,000 Btu is working well without any extra insulation at this point. The whole unit can easily be removed and wheeled down the dock to the truck for winter.

John
 
John:

Are you running this off a generator? If so, which one?

Is the unit thermostatically controlled? If so, can the generator handle stop-and-start actiion?
 
Hi Dr. John,

How much noise does that unit make? Could you sleep with it on that close to the front berth? (Assuming plugged in at a dock; not sure I'd be comfortable with the generator running all night.) Inquiring minds (who are also light sleepers) want to know.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
JamesTXSD":2jfp5q4e said:
Hi Dr. John,

How much noise does that unit make? Could you sleep with it on that close to the front berth? (Assuming plugged in at a dock; not sure I'd be comfortable with the generator running all night.) Inquiring minds (who are also light sleepers) want to know.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Click to expand...

Just think Jim......if it made enough noise to drown out that big yellow cat, you could keep the yellow cat with you.... :mrgreen:
 
DaveS":3rw20brd said:
Just think Jim......if it made enough noise to drown out that big yellow cat, you could keep the yellow cat with you.... :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Real funny, Dave. :cat (and after I was so nice to you at Deer Harbor... signed, Molly the cat)
 
I'm a light sleeper too -- ever since my stint in the Air Force(!). After going through about 20 brands of ear plugs I have two favorites, a 20dB (NRR - Noise Reduction Rating) and a 28dB set.

Unfortunately, the 20dB brand "Quiet Down" went out of business, they were made in the Netherlands I think. These were the most comfortable ear plugs I've ever experienced, I'd say undetectable, and I have sensitive ears. There is even a web site of angry customers that want someone to pick up the patent and start up again.

The 28dB ones are made by 3M, Nexcare. These are about 90% undetectable, quite acceptable. My only complaint is they're a little TOO QUIET when at anchor, I want to hear subtle noises that I might need to hear!

But that's how I'd deal with the noise, not sure though I'd like a gas operated anything running all night while asleep...
 
We have never let a generator run at night--even diesel. We will cool down the boat and then turn off the AC/Gen set (We did have one 5,000 BTU AC unit which we ran on an inverter for about 4 hours)--but I will not go to sleep with the genset on--I've seen too many accidents, involving CO, --even Diesels produce some CO.

We cruised for many years in the tropics with no AC on sail boats--always anchoring out--having wind scoops and fans. A few nights were uncomfortable--but one adopts. The only bad nights were in marinas where there was no breeze....
 
The rotary compressor is a smooth, non-irritating sound. I have fallen asleep while reading, leaning back on the unit. I like some 'white sound' background at the marinas to block out the loud stereos, drunks and yokels who happen by now and then. The air flow is the loudest part, but can be turned down easily electronically.

I don't like to totally block my hearing, but my sis, who's an on call nurse, sleeps with ear plugs routinely.

Genset considerations: You are all welcome to wade in on this. I've got to decide in a week or so.

1 - The Honda 2000 appears to be capable of running this 12k Btu unit. It draws 15.3 starting and the 2000 seems rated for 16.6 amps continuous - If I'm remembering that correctly.

2 - The Honda 3000 could run that A/C at half speed or less, at 49 db and over 7 hours running time.

3 - Two of the Honda 2000's, with a 30 amp connector set, and two remote tanks could provide more power than the 3000. However, that's alot of loose hardware to move and tie down, and it would cost hundreds more than just one Honda 3000. Also, both 2000s would have to be kept running all the time in that setup (I think). Also, they are hand cranking and more easily stolen due to lightweight.

4 - For all these last decades, I've never run a marine generator at night. I do run the RV genset at night. My main heat concern is mid-afternoon on the water, and plugged in at the dock.

I've read about the Yamaha units, but they are a bit heavier. One uses the starting battery to increase the starting amps available for A/C units, but that costs almost a grand more than a Honda 3000 which could handle starts easily w/o using the battery.


Share your experiences and readings, please.

John
 
The deal killer for us on the Honda 3000 is the weight--135 lbs dry! Not sure about the 49 dB--that is at 1/4 load or near idle. The Honda 2000 will run a long time on the six gallon tank--far longer than the 3000 on its internal tank. We choose the Honda 2000 because of weight and reliablitiy. Get one of those $30- Kill-a-watts and check out the current draw--that is what did for the Polar 8300 we use.

You can run 2 of the 2000's off one fuel tank. But the cost goes up a bit--and again the place to put two of them. I am sure that the Yahama units are also just as good as the Honda--again the weight is a bit against them, but we are very sensative about weight because of our back problems.
 
I was at a Yamaha dealer today and took a very quick look at the Yamaha 2400 generator.

It's a very high quality unit, and very attractive, but trying to pick it up is quite a chore as compared with one of the Hondas.

My EU 1000i weighs just 29 lbs, and the EU 2000 46. By comparison, the Yamaha 2400 weighs a whopping 70 lbs!

For me at least, the Yamaha is a much better candidate for a permanent or semi-permanent mounting. There's no way I could heft it out over the transom or even want to carry it out a transom door to the swimstep!

Joe.
 
Sea Wolf":om1r7fzi said:
I was at a Yamaha dealer today and took a very quick look at the Yamaha 2400 generator.

It's a very high quality unit, and very attractive, but trying to pick it up is quite a chore as compared with one of the Hondas.

My EU 1000i weighs just 29 lbs, and the EU 2000 46. By comparison, the Yamaha 2400 weighs a whopping 70 lbs!

For me at least, the Yamaha is a much better candidate for a permanent or semi-permanent mounting. There's no way I could heft it out over the transom or even want to carry it out a transom door to the swimstep!

Joe.
Click to expand...

I agree that the 2000 watt Yamaha generators are too heavy for our boats. But what about setting up 2 of the 1000 watt Yamaha generators in parallel? They weigh 27.9# each, as compared to 46.3# for the Honda 2000, which is more total weight but easier to move individually. Also advantages in redundancy and finding places for them on the Armstrong Bracket (I think the 1000s will fit behind the motors, thus keeping the swim step access clear.)

Warren
 
I had not thought the 2000 was too heavy at 47 pounds...

What would be the maximum starting amps and the running amps on the twin 1000 Honda setup?

John
 
drjohn71a":2l3nugpc said:
I had not thought the 2000 was too heavy at 47 pounds...

What would be the maximum starting amps and the running amps on the twin 1000 Honda setup?

John
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that the 2000 Honda was too heavy at 47#, for some people. I am asking if the 2 x 1000 Yamahas is a good alternative, for weight distribution, ease of use redundancy, etc. for people who don't want to muscle almost 50# around at awkward angles (over the transom to the swim step, etc.)

There is a question about what is the starting amp capacity for the 1000 Yamaha. A dealer claims 2700 watts but the Yamaha website does not support this. Dr. Bob thinks it will be very close to the Honda 1000, which makes sense.

Warren
 
****** What this dealer told me was not true, but I am leaving the post as an example that, even a well intentioned sales person can give you inaccurate information. Acutally, the paperwork from Honda shows that 2 smaller gensets are higher performing than 1 larger unit at the 1000, 2000, and 3000 watt levels********

Well, 'Went to another Honda/Yamaha combo dealer locally at lunch. He says it's really pretty simple:

1 - double Honda 2000's is about the only doubling combo that pays off well.

2 - double Yamaha 1000 or Honda 1000 units is not worth the hassle and cost, he says.

3 - double Honda 3000's - you'd be better off with a 6500

4 - Yamaha 2400i is a really good option when considering a Honda 3000. It won't give you the performance of double Honda 2000's, but it can start about the same stuff as the Honda 3000 and it's lighter at 70 lbs to the Honda 3000's 140 pounds. The Honda 2000 uses less fuel and runs longer per tank than the Yamaha 2400, even tho the 2400 has a larger tank.

5 - He says a single Honda 2000 should start and run my 12,000 Btu A/C unit just fine as long as no other loads are on. He projects it would drop to low revs after the start since the A/C uses 8.5 running amps.

6 - He said alot of ppl used doubled Honda 2000s to run their houses during the multi-week winter storm power outage here.

hmmm... so I will prob ger one or two Honda 2000s

John
 
Warren,

Just now read your post. I tried to explain to the Honda/Yamaha dealer what we were trying to accomplish with the two smaller Yamaha 1000 units. He just kept explaining that two of either the Honda or Yamaha 1000's were not worth messing with in his opinion. He did not grasp the size/space problem which I now see you were trying to solve.

John
 
I haven't investigated the different sources but the Kill a watt:
http://www.smarthome.com/9034.html is $23 at "smart home"-
Super media store $19
Amazom.com has them listed from $23 to $28.

One has to be careful about the "bargin" stores--so check out the sources. I got mine at Radio Shack a few years ago for about $29.

I agree I don't see any major advantage of the two 1000 alternator, inverters. Because of our back probelms we use the Garhauer davit to lift the Honda EU 2000i generator, or both of us pick it up in the action packer, keeping within our 30 lb weight limit apiece.

I think in this case, the real key is what is the actual start up current and the run current? What is on the case may not be what it is. If you can borrow an EU 2000i and check and see if it works.
 
Hey all,

Just spent a weekend on the boat, using the Portable A/C , driven from a single Honda 2000.

The Honda 2000 generator has no problem running this 12,000 Btu A/C unit. In fact, you can even run the genset on "Eco-Throttle"! Most of the time it runs at about 1/2 - 3/4 throttle. Note that this portable A/C uses 8.5 running amps and about 15.3 starting amps.

I got some detail paperwork from Honda on the use of dual 1000's instead of a single 2000 as Warren from Lori Ann suggests. Two 1000 watt Hondas will out perform a single 2000 Watt Honda genset, as Warren thought. I don't have the numbers for the Yamaha inverter 1000's , but think they'll be similar.

John
 
drjohn71a":37306h4b said:
I got some detail paperwork from Honda on the use of dual 1000's instead of a single 2000 as Warren from Lori Ann suggests. Two 1000 watt Hondas will out perform a single 2000 Watt Honda genset, as Warren thought. I don't have the numbers for the Yamaha inverter 1000's , but think they'll be similar.
Click to expand...

That's good news. Just visited both Honda and Yamaha but was unable to find info related to dual gensets. Can you point me to where you got this paperwork? One of the things I am interested in finding out is how the eco-throttle works with two 1000s -- does the 2nd genset stay at idle until the first is maxxed out, or do both gensets share the load equally?

Thanks,
Warren
 
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