Ranger vs. C-Dory

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SpaceCadet65

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Forgive me if this topic has been beaten to death already on these forums. If so, kindly point me to the other threads and I'll go do my homework.

I'm a newbie here saving for a small cruising boat. The Ranger 21-EC and the C-Dory 22 are at the top of the list. I just turned 52 and grew up next door to the New England importer for Marine Trader trawlers back in the 70's and 80's. So I spent summers prepping teak on the new boats and getting them ready for their new owners. Some day, I thought... there would certainly be a 44' Europa model in my future.

Over the decades however, reality set in. Do I really want to maintain that kind of behemoth with all of it's systems, etc? And can I actually come up with the money for such a thing. The answer is a resounding (unfortunate) NO. But the idea of putting along at a leisurely 5-6 knots on a displacement hull with sea-kindly characteristics sipping a 1/2 gallon an hour still inspires me. Hence, my keen interest in the Ranger 21.

But as I draw closer to actually buying the boat (likely next summer), I wonder if I can be happy traveling at 6 knots as a practical matter. I have a pretty regular job which will allow me long weekends and an occasional 1-2 week trip doing short passages. At 6 knots, will I be able to travel far enough to see anything? I've got a few options of where to moor the boat - the South Coast of Massachusetts, or Boothbay Harbor, ME where we have a summer house. In either case, 5-6 knots seriously limits the range of travel in the time I have - at least until I retire 10-12 years from now and have more time.

So the idea of a 22' C-Dory has entered the mix. I can run her at displacement speeds but can get to or from at 15+ knots burning 4gph when needed (and conditions cooperate). I understand the modified dory will have markedly different handling characteristics from the Ranger, but all reports indicate a safe, seaworthy design once you know how to handle her. But a C-Dory will consume 8x the fuel, and the outboard(s) will require more maintenance than the bulletproof 3-cyl inboard diesel in the ranger.

Any thoughts on helping me make the right decision are welcome!

Thanks,

Glen
 
Glen, many here are happy chugging along at 6 kts. Most of them are previous sailors and that's the speed they are use to. OTOH, I've never been a sailor and I get bored at 6 kts. It's ok when you are really enjoying the scenery and what not. But when you need to get somewhere, those additional 15-20 kts are going to come in handy! That's the nice thing about the C-Dory. It is just as happy going slow as it is faster. Colby
 
The C-Dory 22 is much roomier than the R21EC. And, you can get where you want to go much quicker, outrun weather, etc. I've moved down from a C-dory 22 to a Ranger 21 and have no regrets. I'm one of those folks who has arrived at their destination when I step onto the boat. Going anywhere is a bonus. I love the 7 mph my 21 gets just sipping diesel. I like the safety factor of diesel. Both the Ranger and the Dory are really only two person boats no matter which way you analyse it. Also, the newer 21EC's with the 3 cylinder diesel are designed as a "semi-displacement" hull which means they will violate the hull length rule. 10 mph is possible in a 21EC with moderate loading. My 21 is older and is truly a displacement hull boat. The 21 hull is pretty much bullet proof and you cant deflect it (oil can it) anywhere. My C-Dory hull was lighter built, but still plenty strong. The little diesels will just chug along forever, have no trim tilt, trim tabs, electricals etc like the Dory outboards. I actually wont have an outboard boat unless I have twins or a really big kicker. My older 21 is a two lung diesel and I have no fear about traveling far into the unknown trusting that single diesel. (Though I do have a Honda kicker I use for trolling.) I think you will be happier with a good used C-Dory with twin 40's or 50's and probably have a near new boat for less than half of a factory equipped R21 EC. I got such a bargain price on my Classic R21 that I went with it rather than with another Dory. If it hadn't been a bargain price, I'd be in another Dory 22. My boating is limited to mountain country lakes and rivers and I simply don't need the emergency speed of a planing boat. So, price versus utility for my kind of boating? The Ranger is great. (I'm retired) Your kind of boating? A Dory 22 with twins would be a great boat, roomier, faster, but higher maintenance and fuel.
 
Certainly you have a plus with the speed of the C Dory 22. Also the outboard allows entry into many shallow areas that any inboard boat will get into.

The freeboard of the C Dory is more than the Ranger 21, and I would take my C Dory 22, into weather I would not consider with the Ranger 21.

The accommodation of the C Dory 22 is considerably larger. There is a real galley and dinette.

I have no problem with a single engine boat, and all of my mono hull C Dorys have been singles--I have a dinghy motor as kicker--but in many thousands of miles of voyages I have never had a breakdown of an outboard I could not remedy on the spot. I also have many thousands of miles in sailboats, with diesel engines. I prefer the outboards for ease of maintenance. A modern outboard is very close in reliability with marine diesels.

But I am prejudiced, in favor of the C Dory.
 
potter water":dna4j0x8 said:
The C-Dory 22 is much roomier than the R21EC. And, you can get where you want to go much quicker, outrun weather, etc. I've moved down from a C-dory 22 to a Ranger 21 and have no regrets. I'm one of those folks who has arrived at their destination when I step onto the boat. Going anywhere is a bonus. I love the 7 mph my 21 gets just sipping diesel. I like the safety factor of diesel. Both the Ranger and the Dory are really only two person boats no matter which way you analyse it. Also, the newer 21EC's with the 3 cylinder diesel are designed as a "semi-displacement" hull which means they will violate the hull length rule. 10 mph is possible in a 21EC with moderate loading. My 21 is older and is truly a displacement hull boat. The 21 hull is pretty much bullet proof and you cant deflect it (oil can it) anywhere. My C-Dory hull was lighter built, but still plenty strong. The little diesels will just chug along forever, have no trim tilt, trim tabs, electricals etc like the Dory outboards. I actually wont have an outboard boat unless I have twins or a really big kicker. My older 21 is a two lung diesel and I have no fear about traveling far into the unknown trusting that single diesel. (Though I do have a Honda kicker I use for trolling.) I think you will be happier with a good used C-Dory with twin 40's or 50's and probably have a near new boat for less than half of a factory equipped R21 EC. I got such a bargain price on my Classic R21 that I went with it rather than with another Dory. If it hadn't been a bargain price, I'd be in another Dory 22. My boating is limited to mountain country lakes and rivers and I simply don't need the emergency speed of a planing boat. So, price versus utility for my kind of boating? The Ranger is great. (I'm retired) Your kind of boating? A Dory 22 with twins would be a great boat, roomier, faster, but higher maintenance and fuel.
Click to expand...

Thanks for a very well considered reply. Your experience with the two boats is invaluable. I've had the same feeling about the reputation of simple diesel power plants. Being a child of the 70's, my memory of outboards are of unreliable, smokey, noisy things. But I realize that the newer generation of OBs from Honda and the like are nearly reliable as a Honda or Toyota car. I've put about a million miles (literally) on my Japanese cars that each only had one small engine, and can only remember being stranded by a drivetrain issue ONCE in the 36 years I've been driving. So I have to get over the resistance to outboards as not being legitimate "cruising approved" propulsion systems.

And I guess if I can't swing 4 gph at cruise with twin 40's/50's, I should probably choose another pastime. Great response... and greatly appreciated!

Glen
 
Hi Glen. I urge you to do what you can to get on both boats. Once you do, it may become obvious which way you want to go. They are very different boats.

On this site, use The Brat Map to locate and contact owners near you to ask for a boat tour. It worked for me.

bruce
 
little wing":2c1n7gkk said:
Hi Glen. I urge you to do what you can to get on both boats. Once you do, it may become obvious which way you want to go. They are very different boats.

On this site, use The Brat Map to locate and contact owners near you to ask for a boat tour. It worked for me.

bruce
Click to expand...

Thanks Bruce. What a great idea! Never thought of it. Will check it out. And I think you are right that they are completely different boats. Once I feel their different qualities, it will likely become obvious. Then I can really focus on an actual boat model to purchase.

Thanks!

G
 
Hi Glen,

Welcome aboard. Its good to see another Mass guy! I boat in Boston Harbor and Buzzards Bay regularly.

Do you have any interest in a 25 C Dory? I did displacement speeds last week from Boston to Scituate (around 6-8 knots or so). Very relaxing! My boat is for sale and I can show you the boat anytime. Call me with any questions.

Jason 617.817.1136
 
A single engine is a single engine, whether gas or diesel. A single diesel may have better reliability than a singe gas engine, but the margin is not that much.

My Honda outboard is basically the same engine as the one in my Honda car. The car engine is good for a couple of hundred thousand miles. Since the OB engine is actually simpler (less accessories) I expect it to last even longer than my car engine.
 
I'm hearing more and more about the reliability of modern 4-stroke OBs. A few are saying the reliability is nearly equivalent and the maintenance on the OB is actually less than a comparable diesel. Whoda thunk?

G
 
If you plan to buy an used boar, I see a lot of good deals on well equipped C-Dory 22 with fuel injected outboards. m2cw
 
BrentB":1beo8wzv said:
If you plan to buy an used boar, I see a lot of good deals on well equipped C-Dory 22 with fuel injected outboards. m2cw
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A well maintained used boat would be optimal. I don't see a lot for sale compared to other brands. I think these are niche models and the turnover is probably lower than average due to the owner satisfaction. Just my initial impression.

Aside from this site, where have you seen them? I've seen a few on Yachtworld. Since this is a somewhat unique model, I think when I'm ready, I'd even be prepared to drive out of the region and have something shipped to me if need be. But I've got a year or so to worry about it.

Thanks for the input!

G
 
You could spend extended time cruising a CD-22 (many here have), and have the option of fast or slow cruising. While it could be done in an R-21 (yes, I know about the 3 guys who cruised as a group to Alaska with their R-21s), you would have more liveability and space in the C-Dory.

For some perspective, Ranger Tugs is now making their R-23 and R-27 boats with outboard power. They understand the appeal of outboards as well as diesels. My preference on a small couple's cruiser would be outboard power - don't underestimate the advantage of being able to pull that prop up out of the water, especially if the boat will be spending extended time in the water.

The Ranger 21 may be the second "cutest" boat on the water (second to the C-Dory 16), but any of the C-Dory boats get a lot of love from gawkers. Good luck with the search - hope you are able to get on both boats; that sound make the decision much easier.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Amongst the advantages to OB power is that the power plant is outside the boat. This frees up a lot of interior space. On the Rangers that are OB powered, the former diesel engine bay is now storage space.
 
For me, it would not even be a question. R-21 or a CD-22. The C-Dory has room, freeboard, galley, cabin heat and cooking, room for 2 in the cabin (and you both can sit) and if you go over a log, the OB will kick up. That spinning thing on the back, bottom and the little turning tool, they would be gone, ahh oh yeah, you might not have been going fast enough to get over the log in the first place.

But then, in my CD, I cruise at 5.5 knots and enjoy the scenery AND can see the logs coming, so I go around them :lol:

I also agree with those who mentioned the advantages of twins OB's, but I won't go into that here. (Just know there are advantages.)

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

0_CD_Cover_SlpyC_with_Classics_MBSP_2009_288.thumb.jpg
 
SpaceCadet65":23xoc9up said:
<stuff clipped>But a C-Dory will consume 8x the fuel, and the outboard(s) will require more maintenance than the bulletproof 3-cyl inboard diesel in the ranger.

Any thoughts on helping me make the right decision are welcome!

Thanks,

Glen
Click to expand...
Glen,
You're vastly overestimating the difference in fuel consumption. The 8x difference is in gallons per hour with the Ranger tug going 6kt and the C-dory going 15kt (or even 18kt). In gallons per mile the fuel usage is more like 2.7-4x different at those speeds. Slow the C-dory down to 6kt and the fuel economy goes way up. In a 22 you can get 6-8 mpg at displacement speed. That's within a factor of 2 of the tug.
 
ssobol":38xfgt0b said:
A single engine is a single engine, whether gas or diesel. A single diesel may have better reliability than a singe gas engine, but the margin is not that much.

My Honda outboard is basically the same engine as the one in my Honda car. The car engine is good for a couple of hundred thousand miles. Since the OB engine is actually simpler (less accessories) I expect it to last even longer than my car engine.
Click to expand...

I believe that's a myth...the same engine block in an outboard (think only Honda and Suzuki do that) will be far more heavily stressed than in a car, where you are typically running 1/2-2/3 of redline, compared to much higher in most outboards. In an outboard, that block is putting out close to maximum power for a high duty-cycle, compared to automotive use. One reason: road rolling resistance is far lower than pushing water all day.

I still prefer outboards, though: ability to get them completely out of the water, and very shallow draft. And comparing to single-screw inboards (without thrusters) are far easier to maneuver, plus for extended-season use in cold country, are self-draining.

Your Honda in the boat may last far longer than the one in the car, in terms of years, but not in terms of hours/total RPMs before failure.
 
SpaceCadet65":3g5x4ncm said:
But a C-Dory will consume 8x the fuel, and the outboard(s) will require more maintenance than the bulletproof 3-cyl inboard diesel in the ranger. Any thoughts on helping me make the right decision are welcome! Thanks, Glen
Click to expand...

FWIW- In my youth I preferred inboard/stern-drive (diesel/gas) over smelly, gas guzzling, and persnickety two-stroke outboards. I am now a total convert to late model four stroke, fuel injected outboards. OB engines are not only located outside the boat for more space, especially with a bracket, but all the heat and spark is located well away from the fuel tanks. My dual Honda 150 outboards (Honda Accord based) are fast approaching 2500 problem free hours, and knock-on-wood, I expect to get another 2500 hrs before even considering rebuilding.

edit- I see where Ranger is coming around to outboards also
 
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