Prudence and leaving the dock

H

Hunkydory

New member
On two other threads there has been a good if a little overheated at times discussion on seaworthiness, leaving the dock and boat type debate for different sea conditions. Thought I'd add my .02 cents worth on a slightly different tack so therefore a different thread.

First, sense I've no experience on a deep vee and somewhat limited on a c-dory, I will stick to more of the why our attitude of leaving the dock than the conditions one might encounter. Make free in your judgement calls on that attitude as I will in return.

This much I know for sure the c-dory 22' has felt much safer in any of our encounters than our adventures in a canoe, RIB or for that matter many trips made by myself in the high wilderness country by foot or horseback. If the boating routine is fishing or normal cruising many of the points made and prudence shown make for excellent advice and even in our case and the type cruising we do they still do to some degree. But if the reason for the cruise or outing is to test yourself and the boat and live life like our signature says then the risk bar has to be raised and what may befall accepted.

Our greater concern is traveling the highways to reach the point we can release ourselves from the dock, disease that will prevent the leaving form home in the first place or living long enough that one or the other of us is sitting in a rest-home in regret.

Jay
 
Well put Jay. My CD is stored in my boathouse 1000 from my front door. I run a far greater risk carrying fuel, food, ice and the other items to substain myself for a day of cruising on the boat than I do when I fianlly lower it from the house and into the water. Once I'm underway its genarally smooth sailing. There is something really theraputic about cruising and in the c-dory the weather doesn't really affect you that much.
A while back last summer I had been ill for several weeks with resperatory problems. I use a nebulizer and was up most of the night using it. Around 4 AM I said enough is enough and forced myself to get up. I couldn't sleep anyway. I more or less struggled my way out to the end of the dock lowered the boat into the water and in the dark I cruised out into the inlet. I know these waters very well so the darkness wasn't and issue. It was dead calm and I just sat back and drifted and waited for the sun rise. As the sun came up the higher it got the better I felt. I stayed out almost all day and that night I slept like a baby and my breathing improved. Now I wonder if I can get medic care to pay for my C-Dory?
 
Jay --

You bring up an interesting point of discussion. Like almost all the postings on this site, the author looks through the prism of their experience and personality. Except in specific cases, the views do not express fact but opinion. Opinions are often based on facts, but they themselves are conclusions that are not factual (and therefore, neither 'right' nor 'wrong' -- neither true nor false.

This is one of the reasons this site is so interesting, we think. Sure, you can get the facts about a price or an object that can be bought -- "just the facts" -- on some postings, but most other postings are a person's opinions based on their experience with the subject.

Jay, your posting reminds me of a book that fascinated me as a kid --
Knock On Any Door -- the story of Nick Romano who wanted to "Live fast, die young, and have a good-looking corpse."

We all have different psychological and personal reasons for living the lives we do -- what is risk to one, is everyday for another. What is courageous to one, can be reckless to another. Prudence, or good judgment, is often thought to be an exercise of reluctance to take unnecessary risk. And each of us assesses risk (unnecessary or necessary) individually - just as we each have an opinion of the best chartplotter.
 
There was a recent cruise to Apalachicola. The way we were to leave there were tornados in Pensacola--with damage. There was no question on the part of Marie or I that we wouold leave. The weather radar no longer appeared to have the condiitions which spawn tornados (Plus we had been chased by waterspouts in the past when we were in slow boats).
Sure it was raining and some reduced visability, but to us the risk benefit rratio tipped toeard a good weekend with C Dory friends, vs a long drive in the car and a hotel room. Tempered with our experience and feeling of competence, we saw no significant risk by running in heavy raid, moderate winds and even darknees to do this.

Life is getting short for me. I live each day as if it might be my last. I cannot afford to not GO!
 
thataway":25frq9wy said:
Life is getting short for me. I live each day as if it might be my last. I cannot afford to not GO!
Click to expand...

Now if that dosn't get me out on the water this weekend nothing will!

Thanks Bob !!!

Cheers,
Tom
 
Being relatively short on time myself, and not wishing to squander any more, I'm monitoring the site for any and all experiences related to the operation of the C-Dory 22 which I might substitute for personal experience with intent to minimize the risk inherent in pushing off in this little tub.
At the same time I harbor no illusions that I can magically acquire, in a few hours of reading posts, all the skills reflected in the experiences represented herein.
So, like several of the other newbies to this site, I'm looking for a way to derive some general operating parameters - some numbers - which I can use to keep myself out of trouble MOST OF THE TIME, but which will also allow me to stretch a bit and begin to acquire a few of those personal experiences.
Never leaving the dock for fear I just might encounter something beyond my own set of experiences is not in my belief structure just as I'm not ready to give up driving simply because I've never been in a roll-over.

Paul Priest
Sequim
 
I agree with the idea that driving to the dock is far more dangerous than going out for a week or three.

Mark Twain said (or so they say):

All generalizations are false, including this one.

Don't tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish.

Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life.

I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened.

I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it.

Let us not be too particular; it is better to have old secondhand diamonds than none at all.

Part of the secret of a success in life is to eat what you like and let the food fight it out inside.

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.

For Wild Blue

If man could be crossed with the cat, it would improve man but deteriorate the cat.

If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.

Regards,

Mark
 
To which Molly the cat responded...

If you hold a cat by the tail... you had it coming; hope you're not a bleeder.

--------------

I don't look at this as a "how much time do I have left?" situation, because none of us know; although it's a sure bet that after today you have one less day.

Another interesting thread. For us, what it comes down to is: passion. You can go through life never stepping outside your comfort zone... you may not live any longer, but it will feel like forever. :wink: Or, you can go out and embrace life, do the things you've dreamed of... and feel the passion.

I think Mark Twain also gave us ...

"Twenty years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the tradewinds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." Mark Twain

Best wishes,
Jim
 
I boat in all kinds of weather but if I dont feel comfortable with the conditions I just dont go out. If I am out on an extended cruise I will just stay holed up until the weather improves and i try not to push it to meet deadlines or work comitments..thats what gets a lot of people in trouble.

I am also used to sailboats so cruising at 8 to 10 knots or slower in bad weather still feels like a good clip to me and I actually cruise at displacement speeds a lot of the time even in good weather. I have owned a lot of boats and I am always amazed at how my old utilitarian C-Dory gets me where I want to go with no drama.

Take your boat out in various conditions to learn its capabilities (you dont have to go far) and then you will have a better idea of what is comfortable for you.
 
A C-Dory is no more just a literal vessel than a book is just pages and a cover. I value the stuff about motors and cleaners and such, but I truly admire the beautiful vulnerabilty, the genuine humanity some have the courage to share. Thanks.
 
dotnmarty":26dq8jmy said:
I truly admire the beautiful vulnerabilty, the genuine humanity some have the courage to share.
Click to expand...

That is definitely one of the characteristics that sets this site apart from most others and keeps me coming back again and again.

Warren
 
I cut my boating teeth in a 1986 Glasply, and looking back I realize I had no business making many of the crossings I made. No concern for the weather forecast or tides, no GPS, towards the end no functional VHF radio, crossing at night, a POS Merc. 470 I/O engine, etc. Rough weather crossings no doubt gave me more skill as a boater, but I must admit I've gotten more conservative as I've aged and moved on to C-Dory's. On our last nasty crossing of Rosario Strait (dusk, 6' breaking waves and an occasional 8, and I'm conservative when estimating wave height) my wife and I realized what we were doing was horribly irresponsible and could leave our kids orphaned. I promised my Higher Power I would never do this again, and I haven't! So my MO now is as follows: I always know the current forecast and trend, always know the tidal flow, never start a crossing in the dark, keep my engines in top condition, manage my fuel/fuel quality like my life depended on it, have jackets readily available (ie not buried) for everyone on board, make kids wear them, and ask adults to don them if it's rough, have complete/functional communications and chartplotting gear, keep and maintain top quality ground tackle, and read everything I can about boating on this site, Norwesting, Passagemaker, Boat US magazine, books, etc. I love boating more than ever, and actually get a perverse thrill from rough weather boating, but choose to improve my odds wherever I can. The excellent information I learn from this site has helped a lot in this regard! Thanks, Mike.
 
I cut my boating "teeth" on a 15' Wagemaker Wolverine with a 40 hp white Merc. This wooden runabout had a reasonably sharp bow entry tapering to a flat bottom. It had no splash well, scuppers, or bilge pump save for a plastic bucket with which to bail...hehe of course it didn't have a bilge anyway. :roll: I made full Chesapeake Bay crossings from Norfolk. ICW runs to Nags Head, NC, and surfed 6-8 foot ship wakes in Hampton Roads. Often I would try to see how far I could "pearl" (put the bow under water). More than once I got caught in some pretty good squalls. I did all this without knowing about the weather; with no vhf, no gps, no kicker, no depth sounder, and no Sea Tow ( this was in the early 70's). I was 16- 17 yrs old then. When there was very shallow water, enough chop, or short period swells to pound, I had to stop the boat, walk back to the motor, lift it up and move the tilt pin. No tabs or power tilt/trim
Now I have most of the "stuff", but I won't go out if there is a hint of a storm. I won't go into large chop or shallow water "cross" chop...(read Outer Banks, NC sounds) with the wife and/or kids. I also wouldn't be on the water in ANY powered vessel without vhf and gps now.
Hopefully I have matured now, and am prudent in my boating. Safety first.

(hehe but I sometimes miss the reckless days of youth :wink )
 
El and Bill":2c2hyn4c said:
Jay --

You bring up an interesting point of discussion. Like almost all the postings on this site, the author looks through the prism of their experience and personality. Except in specific cases, the views do not express fact but opinion. Opinions are often based on facts, but they themselves are conclusions that are not factual (and therefore, neither 'right' nor 'wrong' -- neither true nor false.

This is one of the reasons this site is so interesting, we think. Sure, you can get the facts about a price or an object that can be bought -- "just the facts" -- on some postings, but most other postings are a person's opinions based on their experience with the subject.

Jay, your posting reminds me of a book that fascinated me as a kid --
Knock On Any Door -- the story of Nick Romano who wanted to "Live fast, die young, and have a good-looking corpse."

We all have different psychological and personal reasons for living the lives we do -- what is risk to one, is everyday for another. What is courageous to one, can be reckless to another. Prudence, or good judgment, is often thought to be an exercise of reluctance to take unnecessary risk. And each of us assesses risk (unnecessary or necessary) individually - just as we each have an opinion of the best chartplotter.
Click to expand...

Enjoyed all the comments and feelings shared on this thread, but El and Bill your perception went right to the heart of what I was trying to express. What an excellent summeration of the differences among us. I read what you wrote serveral times.

Jo-lee and I are still kids at heart and have never lost what to some would seem to be our reckless youth and hope we never do. We have been called crazy and irresponsible by friends and even our own grown children, but its what we are and our souls or spirit or however it may be described demand it of us and in truth see this connection in you and a few others on this site. Though this continuation of what some would describe as reckless youth many don't realize how much planning and safety preparation goes into these past trips. Its not just carefree willy nilly jumping into the boat and off we go. Rather what seem like endless hours of preparation and the same goes back to my wilderness exploration and most all our other adventures. We cover the safety aspects we can then put ourselves to the challenge and in between take time to enjoy the adventure.

There is enough differences in assessed risk evaluation and enough persuasive concerns that Im glad we never had knowledge of this site before our first trip north in 2003, because it may have been enough with our total lack of boating knowledge to stop us from going. In that case ignorance was bliss and the adventure was great.

As the old Indian and Nick Ramero both might have said our medicine was to good to die young, so its already way to late to leave a good looking corpse.

Jay
 
Hi Brats

I like Westward's post. I don't know westward but from his post I can see he is experienced and prudent. I appreciate safe boating.

I don't understand why some could have a mindset of I am going no matter what. Life is short enough without exposing yourself to the raw elements of mother nature. She can overwhelm even the best. Think about it.

For those who need the thrill, try surfing or windsurfing when the conditions are to rough to boat. You might learn not only respect for the ocean and conditions but also how to deal with the wave zone and maybe even how to handle really rough water. Boating is fun, but when I crawl home after a day of windsurfing in extreme conditions I have a glow.

Read Westward's post. Boat safely.

1tuberider
Jeff
 
Read Westward's post. Excellent advice and We follow all of it except for the leaving in the dark and that only when the other choices are worse. Such as tide times or just a beautiful full moon cruisel

About "the never go no matter what" Unless the what is life or death. Its a matter of choices, hopefully well thought out. Here is where I like the following quote from El and Bill. "We all have different psychological and personal reasons for living the lives we do -- what is risk to one, is everyday for another. What is courageous to one, can be reckless to another. Prudence, or good judgment, is often thought to be an exercise of reluctance to take unnecessary risk. And each of us assesses risk (unnecessary or necessary) individually" And I know few who are more safety conscious than El and Bill. Though some of there foreign travels are beyond my nerve capability.

Quote from tuberider Jeff "when I crawl home after a day of windsurfing in extreme conditions" Talk about reckless endangerment of a persons life and limb :wink Again see El and Bills quote on our differences.

The best book I've ever read on boating and one of my favorite all time books, right up there with "Cry Of The Kalahari" by Mark and Delia Owens is "The Curve of Time" by M. Wylie Blanchet. This true story of family boating and real Adventure in the lower Inland Passage before anything much but a compass will give perspective on boating you may never had before. It gave us the courage to make our 2003 and 2004 cruises. Thought If She could accomplish what was described in this book. We with gps, radar, electronic chart plotters, twin 4 stroke motors and a c-dory, even with no experience should be a piece of cake in comparison. Even our 2006 was a piece of cake in comparison.

Jay
 
This is a great discussion!

Here are some numbers for beginners. This is from my experience and applies to the Pacific Northwest.

This is a guide and is my opinion, use at your own risk!

Beginners, first time out:

Calm conditions, wind under 5 knots, wind waves under 1 ft. Operate in these conditions for several trips.

Beginners, with some time on the water:

Wind 5-10 knots, wind waves 1-2 ft.

Beginners, when you think you are getting good!:

Wind 15 knots, wind waves 2-3 ft.

For the first year of ownership:

DON'T GO OUT if the forecast is for winds 20-25 knots or waves over 3 ft.

If you go out and conditions are worst than expected and you are wondering is it is safe, GO BACK TO THE DOCK, enjoy a 'harbor day' with a cup of coffee or a 'cold one'.

Especially avoid 'having' to go out to get home or to work!

Good Boatin' to yah!
 
Hi Brats

Jay Windsurfing in extreme conditions ( I sail in winds up to 45 kts) is not as dangerous as boating in these conditions. I usually think of windsurfing when the wind hits 20+knots. At that point I have a way better options than boating. I have been doing this for over 20 years and as any water sport has its dangers, experienced sailors handle this just fine. I would assess your skill level before you enter the water but windsurfing is done in extreme conditions or you just arn't windsurfing. Now add the element of surf to these conditions and eeeeeeeeeeeha!

As to boating in these conditions, forget it! When the wind hits over 20 knots it causes white caps, it closes the gap between swells, it puts wind swells between the swells. As the wind increases the swells get bigger and closer together. As the wind futher increases vapor appears. I have experience boating in winds up to 40 kts. It is not fun and problems can happen instantly. One thing about the wind is that if the forcast is for 20-25 knt wind and it comes in the gusts can be up to 35 or 40 and very rough. Do you really think your good enough to dodge 12 ft white caps in your dory? I would think there is to much risk for this to be fun.

For us thrill seekers there are many safer options than boating in the extreme elements. Of course when I am windsurfing I am solo, but in a boat you may have other dear souls to think about. Plus, what about the people who come out to help. They are in the same conditions, and setting up a tow rig in these conditions can be dangerous as well as towing the vessel back in these conditions is dangerous.

So do you really need to go? By the way, the coast guard does not have to respond if the conditions are beyond their limits of their equipment. So instead of a tow back maybe the helo picked you up if your lucky and your boat is history.

Boat safely

1tuberider
Jeff
 
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