Prudence and leaving the dock

As always some excellent points!

I have been working for years on a book (which will probably never be published--except maybe on the interhet)--"The Fantisy and Reality of Long Distance Cruising". It has never been finished, because each day, from experience and the various forums I find more illustrations and information. The success of any voyage, no matter how short or long, depends on both preparation and the suitablity of the vessel.

Certainly the preparation of the people, plus their ability to react to situations--part judgement and part situational awareness have played roles in the success of voyages. It is amazing to me, how many people have had "successful" trips, with what we all would consider minimal preparation. On the other hand, we have seen very experienced people get in trouble. I have to make the assumption that the worse will happen, and have a "plan" to deal with it.

We have carried EPRIBS since they became available on our long trips--but based on some of the mishaps I have read of in the last few years, we now have "personal 406 Locator beacons" strobe lights and water proof hand held vhf radios which will clip onto our lifejackets or coats. Technology hasn't changed our way of doing things, but as we get older, we find that we want that extra security which technology allows. (I won't go into the responsibility of not causing a search and rescue mission etc).

Enjoy the water!
 
Not a CD but a scarey story to consider. This happened Fri. afternoon.

Fisherman survives 10 hours in Shelikof Strait

CAPSIZE: Williwaw blast sent the Pacific Lady to bottom of Shelikof Strait.

By MEGAN HOLLAND
mholland@adn.com

Published: November 18, 2007
Last Modified: November 18, 2007 at 03:28 AM

The Pacific Lady had just been knocked over by a hurricane-like blast of wind in roaring seas. The vessel was on its side. Windows that should have displayed sky instead revealed ocean green. Water gushed into the wheelhouse through every opening, big and small.

Alan Ryden, fishing alone on the 42-foot boat, pulled his survival suit over a fleece jacket and had just enough time to call Mayday over the radio as the vessel went down.

As he fumbled out of the wheelhouse, struggling through the chaos of water and debris, Ryden said, he wondered if this was how it would end.

The Kodiak fisherman was a mile offshore from the Alaska Peninsula, 70 miles southwest of Kodiak Island in the Shelikof Strait.
 
Many good and interesting points being made and its an enjoyable thread. Its been mentioned by James TXSD before but familiarity with the waters in question makes a go/no-go decision easier at least for me.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the adventures of Jay and Jolee and they have actually inspired my wife and I to expand our cruising grounds a bit but I am much more cautious around ice bergs and there are also many many areas like Ford's Terror where constricted channels and extreme tide variations create some very dangerous conditions. They have definitely exceeded my comfort level but thats not a criticism; I just dont enjoy pushing things that much.

Most boaters will find that their boats capabilities greatly exceed their comfort level and I think a new boater will just gradually gain experience and comfort as they go along and they will have their own idea of what is prudent.
 
From the age of 10 I cut my teeth boating on Lake Washington (next to Seattle) year round for 15 years, in a 12 ft. aluminum "Sea King" boat with a 2 stroke Evinrude 7.5 hp. Usually there was a large German Shorthair bird dog in the bow. My safety system was a floating boatseat and oars. There is a lot of fetch on the West side of Mercer Island where we lived and icey cold, steep sided whitecaps were common. I rowed to Seward Park and home in some rough water. I fished by the floating bridge year round... and those large waves out of the South double in size when they reflect off it it in a crazy kind of chop. I hopped it over logbooms, I zipped in and out of large cruiser wakes every Seafair and also escorted the Christmas yachts at night in December, again surfing at night in large wake. Fun times. Our 16 ft. Bayliner with 120 hp i/o was fast, but the 12 ft. taught me more about water, waves, & capacities than any boat I've had. But it is still only a lake. Rivers are a whole 'nuther game, constantly moving, taking things away or sending them at you.

Hiking: I've dangled from mere roots at night on wet cliffs in the Cascades and swung and released and hoped the next I grabbed would hold, because we didn't bring ropes. I've spent unplanned nights up there with just a small daypack . I've always hunted and hiked alone, to include ten days in the Passayten Wilderness and the Mt. Arthur Trail in New Zealand. I had 35 knot swells pass me as I surfed them coming in by Tatoosh Island at Neah Bay and then, there is always the Columbia River Bar (the Graveyard of the Pacific) to play with locally. One of the first trips my wife and I did in our jetboat was to go through the Columbia River Gorge, returning at night in standing 9 ft. waves to Cascade Locks from Drano Lake. I thought the boat was up to it and it was, with plenty of room to spare. I like the risk and thrive on it and resent others who would hem me in because of their own physical or mental limitations, lack of experience or poor appreciation for the equipment I now use. That said, I don't take the same risks when my children or guests are present. And if they are hunting with me, I know that they know how to read a compass, which way to head in an emergency (The Army calls that a "panic azimuth") and they always have good clothing and a walkie talkie. Still, I have learned. In my daypack I always have rope, good firestarter, contour map, compass, ammo, quality poncho and down vest as well as wool and polypropylene clothing. Folks know (sort of) where I'm going and when I'll return. Last spring the Strait of Juan De Fuca was so rough, we decided to Ferry back to Port Angeles from Victoria, B.C. to get the truck and trailer at a cost of over $400+ instead of risk the crossing. It was nice to have three buddies to share that with and we, and Dave's boat, returned physically if not financially, unscathed to fish another day.

We had two highly publicized incidences of stupidity locally last winter: four "experienced" mtn. climbers died on Mt. Hood. They still haven't found two of them. They climbed light, leaving equipment that would have saved their lives down at tree line in a cabin. It was January and the weather was blowing at 35 mph and climbed to over 100 mph. The weather stations published what was coming and the climbers "went for it" anyway! They attempted the remote and difficult North Face.... A stupid time and way to climb in the Marine system Influenced Cascades. They may have known the Rockies and other drier and more predicatble ranges in South America, but the Cascades are Hypothermia Kings. Then we had that bozo Techie (Kim) out of San Fransisco who attempted to cross the coastal range of Oregon in a 2 wheel drive car without chains, in heavy snowstorm, at 9:30 at night on a remote, seasonal road in a car that was nearly out of gas. Crossable, maintained & paved highway passes were within 20 miles to the north and south... Ten days later he died trying to save his stranded family, but he put them in unnecessary risk. Thankfully they made it. It seems every month there is someone who disappears on a trail down here who is not prepared to spend an emergency night....What bothers me is when others try to blame the government for not protecting these fools from themselves with more restrictions, laws, locked gates, permits etc. I'm all for charging people for the price of their rescues but don't want my access to wilderness limited just because so many can't safely handle that access in a prudent manner.

On the boat I like back up systems, 2 vhfs, 2 batteries, 2 motors, 2 gps , lots of tools. Always bring an anchor and long rode. Always fill the 112 gallon tank when on the ocean, keep a spare 5 gallons when on the Colubia. Always be prepared to spend the night. When the water is rough, don life-jackets. The pricier float coats are more comfortable and therefore more likely to be worn. Unless the water temp is warm, I always wear mine. Ernest Hemingway said something like "Its always your fault if you're any damn good." So, be a good skipper or mountain guide, check the weather, use good gear and know that others with less experience are trusting your judgement, so don't let them down. But when it comes to going by myself, I'd rather die out there than back at home on the couch. C.W.
 
[Yea, but have you ever had your balls stuck in a rifle barrel?
Mike] - No, when I used to muzzleload hunt I cast my own balls, 430 gr. 54 caliber Maxiballs, which fit snug and didn't ride up in the bore. But still I checked for that often and had a ball-screw in my possible bags to pull them out with using the ramrod if it ever happened. Sam Fadala advised that. Cheers! C.W.[/quote]
 
CW ---agree, well said. We have much in common. You have a great ability to express what you feel.

As a side note slightly off subject on the thread. The one thing I have lost when it comes to adventuring and related activities as I grew older and that's the desire for hunting and even fishing to a degree, though I was never into fishing like hunting. Just killed to much and it lost its challenge and fun plus we no longer really need the food it provided. I will still press myself just as much as ever to look or take photos though again the c-dory boat has sure made the wilderness access a much SAFER, easier and comfortable process. This is not meant as a criticism to those that still do. I can still get back into it too if I'm just going along with someone who still has the enthusiasm. Especially if there is a real challenge involved.

And CW don't take the Alasgun's thoughts to seriously you would have to read his account of that statement to appreciate it. And if you read you most certainly will.

Jay
 
Thought I’d give a couple examples of imprudence edging or more like free falling into the stupid category. None of them has anything to do with boating, but think they will serve well anyway especially for those inclined to say “I sure wouldn’t have been stupid enough to do that.” and you would no doubt be right. Even at the time I and in the one case we thought this might be a rope or one hand hold to far..

1 Being involved in trying to rope a full grown grizzly bear from horseback in a wilderness area 40 miles from the nearest road of any type. This is one case where I knew it was dumb-dumb-dumb at the time, but got carried way by others in that particular moment in time. From this experience learned the idea was just as dumb as I thought before hand and there is a time and place for saying no way we ain’t doing that.

2 Free climbing cliffs alone with a 35 pound pack 15 miles from the nearest road. Actually this instance was not all that stupid more like imprudent enough to slowly work your way into quick sand and not realize it until to late. Was checking out a extremely rough high mountain area on a pre hunt trip when I found there was no way I could go back or left or right so it was up, fall or starve. This was one of those rare times in a life where you get to see what you are made of. Had to put the fear away and it was riding my back like the claws of an eagle. I had acted correctly to bad situations in the past, but they were always a quick on the spot very little time to think just properly react. This was the first time I had a long time to consider what needed to be done with a bad way to die riding on my being able to control my fear and do the right thing and at the same time knowing no matter what I did right it may be for naught.. Was able to put total concentration into what I had to do, so therefore I’m here now writing this account. It may have been stupid getting into this predicament, but I found I had the resources in me to continue on and do what must be done to survive. This is one situation I do hope to never repeat but don’t regret the lesson learned.

Mike before this leads to another balls stuck in the rifle comment. I do have proof of at least one of these examples.

Jay
 
My feelings are, " On a scale of 1 to 10, you lose the first 4 points when you step off of the dock". My wife sums it up as, "Boating should be fun, not terrifying." When I'm on the boat, there's nowhere I have to be and I'm certainly not dieing to get there. :wink
 
rogerbum":uav8a5m9 said:
Jay,

Just out of interest - the grizzly roping attempt - was alcohol a factor or just testosterone? Inquiring minds want to know....
Click to expand...

Roger

I further explained to Dan in a PM some details of this attempt, but if inquiring minds want to know. I'll try again. Just a bit hesitant due to certain int-entities frown on this kind of conduct, but a story is just a story, so here goes,

No alcohol involved for that matter no alcohol in camp and camp was at least eight miles from the bear. And saying just testosterone could lead to this action could be over simplifying too. We were on a sheep hunt in the Washakie Wilderness located just south east of Yellowstone National Park. This is the area known to be the most distance from a road in the lower 48. Was with a group of old time cowboys and hunting outfitters doing their own private hunt who either own or have worked on ranches there whole lives. This bear was feeding in the open side of a large ridge. Two of the guys, brothers who had read of the Spanish in Calif being able to do this and of course thinking they were just as good had to try. I couldn’t talk them out of it, so having a video camera rode a horse just behind them as they went at the bear. It was fast riding over rough ground and they closed with in about l5 yards swinging there ropes with the bear keeping just out of range until it made it to ground to rough for the horses. On this trip I had gone along to video the pre-hunt and hunt which was successful. Agree totally if they had of roped the bear someone no doubt would have got hurt. Being around to many of these kind of people has somewhat jaded my own perspective on safety. These guys live in a whole different realm when it comes to self reliance and the willingness to suffer greatly to follow their idea of living. These sheep hunts on horseback are in country so rough your imagination can not picture it. You wouldn't think a horse capable of walking in it. I've personally seen no video but my own with horses in this rough of country anywhere. After reaching camp no trails but game trails and continual exploring is done in this rugged country at elevation up to 12,000 feet for close to two weeks to pre spot a ram. With no bears involved this is still the single most hazordous trips I've done in my live.
 
Just so the newbies can put this in a bit of perspective, there are two things that should be considered in deciding to "go or no go."

1 - Know your local weather patterns - the prevailing wind directions, winds clocking (changing clockwise or counter), gusting habits.

2 - know your local waters - Deep to shallows = increased wave action. you Puget Sounders need to know the tide/wind/rip problem areas and others in their place also. Lee shores - here in the MidWest, we commonly have winds in the 20-30 mph range and gusts to 35 and 40 are par, BUT you can plan your lake/river trip with cliffs protecting your anchorages and very little risk is involved. You do have to have backup plans and secondary anchor if winds are shifting alot, though.

For us, oftentimes the worst scenario is that you get washed up on the opposite, sandy shore, unlike the extreme risks of the PNW, rocky shores.

I have a kayak, tri-hull, sailboat, the Hobie Mirage Adventure Island, and it is not much fun until winds get into the mid 20's. It goes right thru the waves, not over them, and is a real hoot in rough winds in which I'd not want to take my C-Dory out for fun.

As such, it's not just the wind and waves that should be considered, but your activity, and your desires - do I want excitement, or relaxation.

I tried to read and draw at anchor this last Thursday, and got green around the gills in the 35 mph winds and waves, even after finding a somewhat protected anchorage. Although I was not in danger, it was not a pleasant day and night trying to read, etc., in those conditions!

John
 
I guess it was imprudence that caused my one brother in law to grab a diamondback from behind, just to prove the human hand is faster than the rattler strike. The real imprudence occurred when the other brother in law had to run over with his pocket knife and cut the head off because the snake was significantly stronger than the grip of the brother in law.
 
lloyds":2cdd12x2 said:
I guess it was imprudence that caused my one brother in law to grab a diamondback from behind, just to prove the human hand is faster than the rattler strike.
Click to expand...

Shoulda grabbed the rattler by its' tail instead of going for the head. (Don't know if it works with the diamondback, but growing up in Montana, I did it once with a rattler there....they are not able to bring their head up to your hand when suspended by the tail...however be certain you don't let them swing into your leg... :disgust )

All this information from the guy that now wears his life jacket at all times when on "Sea Shift"...and now is much more cautious in his daily life...LOL.

P.S. and yes the tail method worked, didn't get bit! :smilep
 
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