C-Dory (and other brands) delivered partially built?

M

matt_unique

New member
As I read all the posts about the numerous QC problems it's clear the boats are delivered partially built. I wonder how much time is required in man hours to make sure all the screws are in, screw and bolt holes sealed properly (or sealed period), remove the junk zinc brackets and replace with SS, fix the drains in the sink, shower, and cockpit so they work, test for trim tab function and indicator operation, modify the cockpit door so it does not leak, etc., etc.?? I know others could add to this list.

I wonder if C-Dory would offer a $10,000 discount to owners or prospective owners who just assume pay someone else to do the finish work properly?

Does anyone know of a boat made with proper QC? I know the veteran owners would have a pretty good perspective about that.

As I say the above out of frustration, C-Dory appears to be among the lesser of evils. I can't believe I will buy a boat and have to plan and budget for getting the finish work done properly.....
 
Matte,

Even if you buy one that is perfectly functional the first day out, things change rapidly in the marine environment. The pounding, sea water, rain water, extra hardware, stresses on fittings, heat, cold, wet, dry, etc. all continuously try to mess things up from day one.

Also, some of the problems come from secondary market items which are added on by C-Dory, the Dealer, or another party. One guy/gal hits the wrong ground and havoc is wreaked elsewhere.

You have to watch for lint and hair in the drain sumps just like at home, but the drains area smaller and stuff dries out in them pretty hard due to infrequent use.

It would be nice if everything always worked, but you'd have to put 100 hours at sea on a boat to get everything to loosen up and do whatever mischief it has in mind.

Somewhat like buying a new motorhome, there are so many extra systems added on that it is a crapshoot as to what ones will work and what ones will not.

John
 
Matt,

I don't know anyone recently having a leaking cabin door. Those Diamond Seaglaze windows and doors are really tight. If anything, you have to really keep the window slides clean in order to be able to slide them the tolerances are so close.

Also, C-Dory does not make trim tabs. Some of the ppl with trim tabs have not read the instructions and calibrated them. Same with the gps,electronics, etc. It is maddening if they don't work right out of the box but there's a lot of preliminary setup needing to be done once they're in their final locality to get everything working.

C-Dory does not make anchor windlasses , nor anchor rollers, nor chain and line for anchors, but if you don't put a swivel on the chain, those anchors will swim, rotate, etc, and tie knots in the rope so you have a frustrating introduction to that system, too. I guess there is a learning curve to all the systems.

John
 
Marty,

I am sorry if I offended you by referring to motorhomes, but my experience is that motorhome manufacturers install the water heater, fridge, ice maker, microwave, etc,, but if, BY CHANCE By "Game of Chance", something does not work, you are left to using the manufacturer's warranty procedure to get a fix.

I am trying to say that we tend to blame C-Dory when the Wallas does not work, etc., in some cases.

Some problems are boat building problems, some are accessory problems. Those have been my observations.

John
 
Matt actually hit the nail on the head. These boats are delivered in multiple ways, every one is unique. Some may be finished at the factory, some at the dealer.

The bottom line is you check everything. Should we have to do that? No, but I've had to do it when buying airplanes, so why would I not do it when buying a boat.

I too have noted a decided plunge in quality control ever since "the greatest generation" left the factory floors. It really is deplorable in all industries, and the young of today will reap the whirlwind I fear.
 
I question who is liable for the numerous little repairs that are needed to our new boats.

Granted, I am learning more about the boat by troubleshooting the problems encountered (mostly small) and I do not mind fixing the problems that mainly required a little time.

What about the items that require $$? Even the small things start to add up. It isn't feasible or cost effective to trailer my boat 150+ miles to have the dealer fix a small problem that I can repair So, I spend the few bucks and fix it myself.

How do the rest of you handle these small problems?

My 2cts.. But I still love my boat!
 
matt_unique":30mxk45v said:
As I read all the posts about the numerous QC problems it's clear the boats are delivered partially built ...

Does anyone know of a boat made with proper QC? I know the veteran owners would have a pretty good perspective about that.

... I can't believe I will buy a boat and have to plan and budget for getting the finish work done properly.....
Click to expand...

We all like our boats but don't expect miracles. By miracles I mean don't expect the company to put a lot more into the boats than they need to to keep them rolling out the door. So long as they have a long list of buyers then the very first priority will likely be to keep the boats moving, second, perhaps a close second but nonetheless second, will be to produce the best boat they can for the money.

I would bet my last dollar that the delivered quality of my 8 year old sailboat, a PS Dana, ($90K then, $130K new today?) beats the stuffing out of any c-dory, or the c-ranger for that matter. Why I couldn't tell you, other than they are very different boats and they appeal to completely different segments of the boating market.

As for $200K for a 29 footer? Unless the fit and finish are an order of magnitude better than what they are further down the product line, then I'd have to say the company is getting a bit big for its britches.

Regards,

k
 
Yup Yup Yup

I agree with Ken and will ask the question "Where's the "comprehensive" owners manual?
My manual is, shall I say, "skimpy" and I've read those folks buying the tug at $100K+ are getting something less than I got.

If I were the "CE Oh" at C-Dory I'd be setting some standards for the boats leaving the factory AND some dealer guidelines - like a preferred location for batteries.

BTW: There should be stainless hardware throughout - period. How about pre cutting some holes for wiring from the battery to the back of the dash?

There's more but dinner's on the table.

Phil
 
First I don't think that there is a "market" for not completed boats in the C Dory line--and the cost saving could be far more than $10,000. When Cal Yachts was in trouble financially in the mid 70's they produced a lot of partly finished boats, and the owners finished the interiors--actually that revived the company, since some owners had better ideas than the factory boats, and then the factory started building boats like the modifications. However at that time Cal was building semi custom boats anyway. (Rare that two were intentical below decks).

Last year, C Dory told me that they would not put in the second water tank although I had ordered it--because they wanted "cookie cutter boats" for more savings. (I would have paid a significant amount for this second tank, but that was not an option, even though they did send me the tank to put in afterward --which means completely disassembling the port side of the interior.)

It is a rare boat which comes with an owners manual, which covers all of the systems. I agree that boating is a continum of improvement and working on the boats--and that RV's and boats have a lot in common. But I have had a lot more quality control issues on my TC than on most RV's I have owned--with one exception. For the most part new boats I have purchased have been free of quality control problems.

Cutting of holes for wiring is not a factory priority and I would be against that. (I don't know how the molded interior is built--and it probably would be a very good idea to put in PVC pipes as "races" for wiring--which as to be added.) But the basic wiring harness does require a number of wires to be pulled--or put in before the boat is finished.

I agree on the stainless hardware, but the zinc plated L brackets should not be screwed into the floors anyway--the bulkheads and furniture need to be tabbed in with fiberglass, not screws and SS. As they go to molded interiors, then that will not be a problem and is a step foreward.

For major mistakes, the factory is responsiable--and in all cases that I am aware of they have steped up to the plate. The factory has spent a lot of money correcting mistakes--and that really hurts the bottom line. They should have learned a lession by now. In the past both CD 25 and Tom Cat 24's have had tanks replaced. There have been floors repaired and other defects corrected. There have been a number of drainage problems fixed.

Despite all of the problems I had with the TC, if there was a defective part, C Dory stepped up to the plate and sent me a replacement part: water pump, fittings for shower, caulking and made sure I got a New Helm pump when it failed. On the other hand, I fixed a lot of just careless items, which would have cost zero to have done correctly. These minor issues were very frustrating, and caused some ill feelings. For example my shower sump problem was a issue where the improper crimp fitting was used. The Wallas problem, was because the fuel line was not tightened properly, when installed (not a stove manufacture problem).

My complaint has been that there has not been adequate quality control inspection at the factory--not sure that is still a problem or not. I talked with a owner today, who potentially has an issue, which may be installation at the dealer or factory, but it is not clear.

Also many owners are relitatively new boaters and just accept things which are wrong as being "OK". Then there is the question about dealers
responsibility in this cycle--shouldn't they be sure that all systems work during a sea trial?
 
Dr. John- I am not at all offended by what you pointed out. I simply disagree. As Tonka was fond of saying, "a toy shouldn't break when you play with it." Americas auto makers are learning that lesson. While one may expect more costly materials in a more expensive boat, one has a right to expect everything to work regardless whether the vessel sold for $25,000 or $250,000. I know that, if my dentist puts on a cap (and I've gotten a few these past years), whether porcelain or gold, we both expect it to 'fit'. When I buy a boat, or a car, or a vacuum cleaner, I expect every screw hole to have the proper screw in it. I don't think it's too much to ask.
 
I guess the bottom line question would be:

From all you know now, would you buy something different?

For my answer, it would be no. There is nothing else I've found that would adequately replace all I can do in the C-Dory 22. I simply fix the (to this date all minor) problems as they come up and continue to use the boat in ways I wouldn't imagine in others I've owned.
 
This problen is industry wide. A recent article in a well known trade journal refered to it as the dirty little secret of the boat building business.
That is MOVING PRODUCT is job one, customer satisfaction be damned!
 
With todays technology available (ie. computer, word processors, graphic design software) it's almost unimaginable that any company would not spend a week or two dedicating a single staff member or contracting out to bringing manuals into the digital age.

When in digital format, changes or updates of text, drawings, etc. can be made very rapidly and offered as PDF's for instant downloads.

Heck, for a tall radar arch I would even do the 22 it to get things up to date.
:wink:
 
To be fair, I do think they've been good with customer satisfaction. There's been a boat replaced, and one doesn't have to go far to find a boat towed to the factory and fixed for free or updated when it was there for some other problem (even when well out of warranty).

Most of us are highly satisfied with the boat, even though we have obvious gripes about some things.

I agree a QC manager would cost less than unsold boats because of negative threads on the Internet.
 
drjohn71a":56k1qh0u said:
Matte,

Even if you buy one that is perfectly functional the first day out, things change rapidly in the marine environment. The pounding, sea water, rain water, extra hardware, stresses on fittings, heat, cold, wet, dry, etc. all continuously try to mess things up from day one.

Also, some of the problems come from secondary market items which are added on by C-Dory, the Dealer, or another party. One guy/gal hits the wrong ground and havoc is wreaked elsewhere.

You have to watch for lint and hair in the drain sumps just like at home, but the drains area smaller and stuff dries out in them pretty hard due to infrequent use.

It would be nice if everything always worked, but you'd have to put 100 hours at sea on a boat to get everything to loosen up and do whatever mischief it has in mind.

Somewhat like buying a new motorhome, there are so many extra systems added on that it is a crapshoot as to what ones will work and what ones will not.

John
Click to expand...

Dr J.,
I was referring to brand new boats that have never been splashed when I compiled my list. I did a search and summarized a partial list of problems owners have been discussing over the last year.

In terms of the cockpit door, I was referring to the extensive thread and suggested workarounds for the access door in the floor of the cockpit that does not seal when closed allowing for water access into the bilge. Same applies to drains or pumps that were installed incorrectly, wired incorrectly, and just did not work. Many owners have discovered a lack sealer with fittings that penetrate the hull core.

The manufacturer is responsible for the equipment partnerships and dealerships they endorse. If a dealership is consistently sending out boats without proper prep or dealer QC, they should loose their ability to order new boats. If the Wallas Stove does not work, it's their job (C-Dory) to find another equipment solution. I don't accept a manufacturer passing the buck.

I'm not a C-Dory owner as you know, I am a prospective owner taking the time to research what you have had to say about your boats. There is a clear trend from owners indicating a reduction in quality and seemingly a bit of lip service about correcting QC problems previously identified. Several of Bob's threads seem to indicate this for example.

Anyway we're talking about year 2006 and 2007 boats with missing screws my friend! There is just no excuse for that...

At this point I fully expect to have to do my own quality control over a $90K brand new boat. I also know I need to arrive with a team of boat inspectors, armed with buckets of water, because I would be foolish to have blind confidence that anything works. From reading these threads I would be foolish to expect the cockpit drains work on a brand new C-Dory for example. That is nothing short of shameful....

YET...it's apparently not possible to buy a boat from any brand that is any better with QC. God help the rest of the manufacturers if customers find a brand that takes the time to do things right.
 
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