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C-Dory (and other brands) delivered partially built?
- Thread starter matt_unique
- Start date
Lucky Day":ipf6wlng said:I want to share with you that C-Dory has made good on every repair I have requested be performed - and in the most cordial way. David
Same here. New gas tanks, crack in the gel coat, tippy/wobbly table, new door lock, extra parts and lots of technical help. Like any busy operation it sometimes took a couple of calls/emails, We don't have the luxury of a local dealership but I doubt if it would have made a difference if we did.
Don
matt_unique
New member
The experience of owners able to get reimbursement for repairs is highly encouraging. That is definitely a positive note.
I too would not have a local dealership. I would need to have a boat shop make the repairs and have the dealership pay for it. For those in the same situation, did your dealership pay the repair facility directly? How did the process work for you?
With my current boat I once had a local boat shop make repairs. The dealership said they would pay for it. Then when the final bill arrived they said "they charged you for way too many hours for this work, we could have done it in half the time here, and we're not going to pay the entire balance, etc." Fool me once shame on you as they say. Going forward I would make sure, in writing, that the dealership specifies what they will pay and to make sure the dealership rep speaks to the boat shop rep to ensure I'm not stuck with the bill.
This is all part of the long research process and is very helpful.
I too would not have a local dealership. I would need to have a boat shop make the repairs and have the dealership pay for it. For those in the same situation, did your dealership pay the repair facility directly? How did the process work for you?
With my current boat I once had a local boat shop make repairs. The dealership said they would pay for it. Then when the final bill arrived they said "they charged you for way too many hours for this work, we could have done it in half the time here, and we're not going to pay the entire balance, etc." Fool me once shame on you as they say. Going forward I would make sure, in writing, that the dealership specifies what they will pay and to make sure the dealership rep speaks to the boat shop rep to ensure I'm not stuck with the bill.
This is all part of the long research process and is very helpful.
Just for future reference, who or what department do I ask for if I need to call the factory for anything? Do I just call the main factory phone #?
As for my boat, fortunately I have not had any issues requiring factory involvement. Hopefully this is not because of ignorance of problems! :shock: I will say, however, that when Ranger Jeff left and no one was designated as his replacement I was (and am) uneasy about who I would liaison with at the factory. Am I correct in understanding that Andew Custis (who posts here) is a factory employee who is stepping into Jeff's shoes, somewhat?
Warren
As for my boat, fortunately I have not had any issues requiring factory involvement. Hopefully this is not because of ignorance of problems! :shock: I will say, however, that when Ranger Jeff left and no one was designated as his replacement I was (and am) uneasy about who I would liaison with at the factory. Am I correct in understanding that Andew Custis (who posts here) is a factory employee who is stepping into Jeff's shoes, somewhat?
Warren
matt_unique":1iflfg8p said:I too would not have a local dealership. I would need to have a boat shop make the repairs and have the dealership pay for it. For those in the same situation, did your dealership pay the repair facility directly? How did the process work for you?
In my case, for the gel coat crack/repair, I contacted two major local boat dealerships and asked who did their work. Most farm fiberglass work out, btw. With the name in hand, I got a bid from the subcontractor (he did the work for both dealerships) submitted it to the factory and they approved the repair. The fiberglass guy called the factory to confirm and the factory paid directly (and quickly I learned.) Interestingly, the same area crazed about 6 months later and the fiberglass guy repaired that under his own warranty. He said it was unusual but he's gonna make sure it doesn't happen again. I believe him!
With the fuel tanks, I chose to do the work myself since I wanted to do some other work while the tanks were removed, though again, the factory was willing to have it done by a local reputable boat yard. Couldn't believe how easy the job was, though I ended up with more visible tank because the new tanks were larger. The hardest part was emptying the tanks and removing the fuel/vent/fill hoses.
Again, I choose to do the work myself in 90% of the cases because I learn from the experience and that way I know it's done right the first time or if it isn't I can easily point a finger. The door lock took far longer to "fix" than expected. There is a single plastic part that seems to cause all the problems and it's not a replaceable item, btw.
Everything else on board can be easily fixed locally and in my experience the factory either reimbursed me or paid directly without any hassle whatsoever. LIS, I don't need no stinkin local stealership! :wink
Don
My experience with the factory was very similar to what Sneaks posted above. I contacted them by phone at the main number. I provided detailed information on what needed to be looked at, and provided information about the shop I wanted to use and what the hourly rate would be. I told the factory the basic scope of areas to be looked at, and we agreed that I would contact them if any additional areas needing inspection were discovered. Payment in full from C-Dory was received very promptly. The entire process was very professional without any drama injected by me or by C-Dory. I had the good fortune to be working with a knowledgable shop, and, before contacting C-Dory my ducks were lined up. I received expert counsel and advice from every source I could identify, including the fabulous knowledge base available here at C-Brats.com. In fact, another C-Brat participant even made himself available to speak directly with the repair shop's owner to provide additional information on the scope of work needed. (BTW, this website community was a key factor in my choosing to buy a C-Dory in the first place, and remains a major factor in my growing happiness with my C-Dory experience.)
One more thought: over a period of years, I purchased five new heavy duty diesel tractors, which, like boats, involve both factory manufacture of components and the installation of third party equipment. They all needed shakedowns to get everything working in concert. They were top quality vehicles from top notch manufacturers, but this is the real world we're living in and shakedowns go with the territory.
A C-Dory, even if simple compared to other boats, still ain't a wheel-barrow. I really like my boat and I'm glad I own it.
One more thought: over a period of years, I purchased five new heavy duty diesel tractors, which, like boats, involve both factory manufacture of components and the installation of third party equipment. They all needed shakedowns to get everything working in concert. They were top quality vehicles from top notch manufacturers, but this is the real world we're living in and shakedowns go with the territory.
A C-Dory, even if simple compared to other boats, still ain't a wheel-barrow. I really like my boat and I'm glad I own it.
rdn4sun":1ww9ygwk said:I am a future, (soon maybe), C-Dory or C-Ranger owner. I have resented the he!! out of being the beta tester for my $36K Boston Whaler and I'm retorically questioning; why do it for an $88k-$150K boat?
Better QC would probably not help them sell many more boats, so why do it? Windows was the most bloated, buggy piece of code on the planet until open source software showed up, started taking market share, and made Microsoft pay attention to QC. What's it going to take to make the boat manufacturers pay attention to QC? With "low end" boat sales in decline (as reported here) there is actually a disincentive to focus on QC and an incentive to do whatever is needed to boost short-term sales numbers.
All that said, I am quite satisfied with my C-Dory.
Warren
matt_unique
New member
Does the factory still pay for warranty repairs directly or would I need to go through the dealer?
My guess would be that "it depends" :smileo on how far you live from the dealer. I don't believe there is a dealer near either Bob or John and the factory has helped them. I have two C-Dory dealers within 20 miles of me so I am sure the factory would rather I work with one of them.
Warren
Warren
RJD Wannabe
New member
My reply to a similar thread:
Is there an era when the quality of the 22 Cruisers was better than the newer ones?? When did corner cutting accelerate??
I spent a few hours at the SD Boat show this weekend, the 22 Cruiser seemed great, but no 22 Angler to compare. But,when I started to look at the fittings, etc, I can see areas of concern. I do expect to get one in 12-24 months, trying to figure out the best era. Probably one not stored in water.
2 boats ago we had a Cobalt, amazing quality and finish. But when I told the dealer I used to clean salmon on the back deck, I thought they were gonna get ill. :xseek Worse when I told them I trolled with 2 buckets to slow me down. "You can't do that on a Cobalt." I did point out who owned the boat. :xnaughty
Is there an era when the quality of the 22 Cruisers was better than the newer ones?? When did corner cutting accelerate??
I spent a few hours at the SD Boat show this weekend, the 22 Cruiser seemed great, but no 22 Angler to compare. But,when I started to look at the fittings, etc, I can see areas of concern. I do expect to get one in 12-24 months, trying to figure out the best era. Probably one not stored in water.
2 boats ago we had a Cobalt, amazing quality and finish. But when I told the dealer I used to clean salmon on the back deck, I thought they were gonna get ill. :xseek Worse when I told them I trolled with 2 buckets to slow me down. "You can't do that on a Cobalt." I did point out who owned the boat. :xnaughty
In answer to your question. Apparently not, judging by the complaints of folks with 25 year old C-Dorys.
I never understood the love and admiration that others used to express here for C-Dory the company. I never experienced the incredible level of service that some people touted. I now don't understand the level of animosity and complaint that is being directed towards C-Dory. It appears that the praise has turned to nitpicking. C-Dory is a small business trying to make a profit in a difficult industry in a declining market. I sure don't agree with all of their decisions and directions, but I don't have my money on the line, so it's not my call.
I like my boat a lot. It had some initial problems with systems. I had to replace the macerator twice until I upgraded it, the plastic fuel tank wasn't correct and C-Dory replaced it with an aluminum tank, and they had to replace the shower drain pump. After those issues the boat has been a work horse. No cracking, no leaks, no other big issues in five seasons.
I can see several solutions for those wanting to buy a C-Dory.
1 - Buy another new boat. Preferably one from Brunswick. Then contact the owners of Brunswick with your problems. They'll get right on it.
2 - Buy the boat of the disgruntled people who own one and are nitpicking them to death. By now they should sell used for about 40% less than they did 6 months ago because the whole world now knows that their owners think they are poorly built. Take the $ that they lost in value and use it to build the C-Dory into the boat you all think it should be.
3 - Buy a boat from Devlin Boat Works. They make an absolutely beautiful boat that is the size and layout of a C-Dory 25. You can talk to the builder directly and he'll build it to your exact specifications. There won't a piece of Chinese stainless on the whole boat. The only downside is that it will cost you $225,000.
I'm probably being too sarcastic here. I think it's great to have a spot for open discussion of problems and solutions. But this tone has just turned a little too negative for my taste. It's taking some of the fun out of visiting the C-Brat site.
Lyle
I never understood the love and admiration that others used to express here for C-Dory the company. I never experienced the incredible level of service that some people touted. I now don't understand the level of animosity and complaint that is being directed towards C-Dory. It appears that the praise has turned to nitpicking. C-Dory is a small business trying to make a profit in a difficult industry in a declining market. I sure don't agree with all of their decisions and directions, but I don't have my money on the line, so it's not my call.
I like my boat a lot. It had some initial problems with systems. I had to replace the macerator twice until I upgraded it, the plastic fuel tank wasn't correct and C-Dory replaced it with an aluminum tank, and they had to replace the shower drain pump. After those issues the boat has been a work horse. No cracking, no leaks, no other big issues in five seasons.
I can see several solutions for those wanting to buy a C-Dory.
1 - Buy another new boat. Preferably one from Brunswick. Then contact the owners of Brunswick with your problems. They'll get right on it.
2 - Buy the boat of the disgruntled people who own one and are nitpicking them to death. By now they should sell used for about 40% less than they did 6 months ago because the whole world now knows that their owners think they are poorly built. Take the $ that they lost in value and use it to build the C-Dory into the boat you all think it should be.
3 - Buy a boat from Devlin Boat Works. They make an absolutely beautiful boat that is the size and layout of a C-Dory 25. You can talk to the builder directly and he'll build it to your exact specifications. There won't a piece of Chinese stainless on the whole boat. The only downside is that it will cost you $225,000.
I'm probably being too sarcastic here. I think it's great to have a spot for open discussion of problems and solutions. But this tone has just turned a little too negative for my taste. It's taking some of the fun out of visiting the C-Brat site.
Lyle
Lyle- I have to respectfully disagree. I think it is indeed a healthy discussion that is going on here. We're getting some nitpicking complaints and some praise for problem resolution and a little bit of everything in between. Those who are looking for perfection at a bargain basement price will be dissatisfied no matter what. This open discussion allows for that. Those who add up the positives and subtract the minuses will know that the C-Dory sum is a solid plus. I think the C-Brats contribute a great deal to the positive side of the equation. Now if I could just get the factory to fix it so my seat doesn't turn off the engine every time I swivel around..... :wink:
Marty,
You are spot on with those thoughts. Like you, I think it's healthy to have an open forum discussing the pros and cons. Apparently some ppl had more problems that others. Some were buying prototype hulls at reduced rates and fixes are kind of the expectation in those situations.
All in all, I am very happy with my C-Dory TomCat. I think the delivery and dealership problems made the beginning of that experience a bit rocky, but the factory did set things up so I could have my "cruise of a lifetime" up there in Puget Sound over Christmas. More postitives than negatives to me so far, and the boat is performing remarkably well - much better than my initial expectations.
Yes, I just had to swab up a water mess from the shower faucet leak, but the factory had changed to new nylon fittings trying to solve an old problem there. I've got it fixed now without having to buy any more parts or sealers, so all is well.
John
You are spot on with those thoughts. Like you, I think it's healthy to have an open forum discussing the pros and cons. Apparently some ppl had more problems that others. Some were buying prototype hulls at reduced rates and fixes are kind of the expectation in those situations.
All in all, I am very happy with my C-Dory TomCat. I think the delivery and dealership problems made the beginning of that experience a bit rocky, but the factory did set things up so I could have my "cruise of a lifetime" up there in Puget Sound over Christmas. More postitives than negatives to me so far, and the boat is performing remarkably well - much better than my initial expectations.
Yes, I just had to swab up a water mess from the shower faucet leak, but the factory had changed to new nylon fittings trying to solve an old problem there. I've got it fixed now without having to buy any more parts or sealers, so all is well.
John
RJD Wannabe
New member
This wannabe is sold on the C-Dory, really like this site (I have looked at every mod in the photos). All different boats made have their good and weaker points, better and worse eras and options (even the Brunswick POS). My first boat was a 16' Reinell that worked for 5 days, but not consecutive, I even got towed by a trash boat once. But still was fun.
It's a huge benefit to be able to swap experiences. For me the KISS principle always seems to win over, I'll probably take out or never use the running water, maybe same for stove, and definitely no fridge. An ice chest, bottles of water and a BBQ will do, plus probably a small microwave. Radar and side scanning sonar are way more important than a sink. IMHO, but to each his own.
The only perfect boat is the one I have and am enjoying. It'll be a 22 with a whole lot of custom touches. What fun. Waiting is now the hard part.
It's a huge benefit to be able to swap experiences. For me the KISS principle always seems to win over, I'll probably take out or never use the running water, maybe same for stove, and definitely no fridge. An ice chest, bottles of water and a BBQ will do, plus probably a small microwave. Radar and side scanning sonar are way more important than a sink. IMHO, but to each his own.
The only perfect boat is the one I have and am enjoying. It'll be a 22 with a whole lot of custom touches. What fun. Waiting is now the hard part.
Hey Matt...from the other site.
Before you give up on C-Dory; here is another take on all this.
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/
It seems that allot of other boats are truly "nightmares"...not just small "irks"
Bob Austin probably can tell us if this is reasonably accurate.
Before you give up on C-Dory; here is another take on all this.
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/
It seems that allot of other boats are truly "nightmares"...not just small "irks"
Bob Austin probably can tell us if this is reasonably accurate.
Lyle, I totally agree.
Our little boat has not given us any problems that has taken away from the sheer enjoyment of boating in these beautiful waters, meeting new C-Brat friends, sighting C-Dorys on the water, attending gatherings and catching fish. I guess we're just lucky. But while not a perfect boat, it's perfect for us.
So for you fence-sitters, maybe you should just dive-in and purchase one. You just might find out what the true "little secret" is; they're fun! And isn't that what boating should be all about anyway? As the old commercial said, "Try it, you'll like it!"
Peter
C-Dancer
It's been stated on this thread and others recently that the quality of C-Dory's has changed. I'm starting to think that perhaps the same is true of this site. I'm certainly deriving less pleasure from this site than I used to. But I realize that I have a choice. Log on or not. Just as prospective owners have the choice, to buy or not.Lyle":27zatc54 said:But this tone has just turned a little too negative for my taste. It's taking some of the fun out of visiting the C-Brat site.
Lyle
Our little boat has not given us any problems that has taken away from the sheer enjoyment of boating in these beautiful waters, meeting new C-Brat friends, sighting C-Dorys on the water, attending gatherings and catching fish. I guess we're just lucky. But while not a perfect boat, it's perfect for us.
So for you fence-sitters, maybe you should just dive-in and purchase one. You just might find out what the true "little secret" is; they're fun! And isn't that what boating should be all about anyway? As the old commercial said, "Try it, you'll like it!"
Peter
C-Dancer
Ashley Lynn
New member
A point of view from a newbie:
I thoroughly enjoy my new boat. My local dealer has been responsive and I believe that they would fix/repair any problems with the boat, big or small. Although, I have not asked them, because most of the problems have been small and the dealer is 150 miles away. I could fix the problems myself cheaper and faster than hauling the boat to the dealer, plus I get to learn and discover the boat when I fix it myself.
Being a new boat owner (this is my first real boat) I am on a learning curve as to know what to expect and what not to expect from the factory or the local dealership.
How do the experienced owners that are conveniently located to dealerships handle the small qc type problems with new boats?
I thoroughly enjoy my new boat. My local dealer has been responsive and I believe that they would fix/repair any problems with the boat, big or small. Although, I have not asked them, because most of the problems have been small and the dealer is 150 miles away. I could fix the problems myself cheaper and faster than hauling the boat to the dealer, plus I get to learn and discover the boat when I fix it myself.
Being a new boat owner (this is my first real boat) I am on a learning curve as to know what to expect and what not to expect from the factory or the local dealership.
How do the experienced owners that are conveniently located to dealerships handle the small qc type problems with new boats?
One has to put all of this in prospective. The origional C Dories were the 22's or deritatives of the 22's. These are the work horses which drove C Dory quality--and I can say that the 1992, and a number of older boats Ihave seen just didn't have many if any quality control problems. BUT, these are very simple boats. Most of them had a simple foot or hand operated waterpump. There was no sub floor, Everything was glassed or screwed together. Simple and easy to fix. When I sold C Pelican to Jeff a little over a year ago, she had been sitting in Las Vegas most of the year. We tried to keep a tarp on her, but some fading occured. In a couple of days, Marie and I had her spiffed up and looking new. This is due to quality gel coat and construction--never had any leaks (I did have to rebed the railings when I prucahsed the boat, but it was 9 or so years old then.
+
Enter the new boats--specifically the 25. A raised floor, with plastic tanks. there were early problems documented with the tanks right away.
Also there were questions about the cockpit floor. We ended up buying a 2003 fairly early (#30). I found some issues which were definately factory design problems, and some which were carelessness. But the boat was used, and had be abused. The problems had not been brought to C Dory until the boat was for sale. C Dory stood behind the boat--but made it clear that that was it. The pastic tank was not now leaking nor had any real problems, so they would not replace it. (and I am not sure I really wanted them to). I did find things I felt were wrong from a construction standpoint--and I have personally corrected these, so that the boat is now better than new.
The Tom Cat 255 (2006--3 years later, and the 39th Tom Cat) had many quality control problems. I have to say that this was due to either ignorance by workers, lazyness, or lack of knowlege by the people in charge--and I have no way of knowing which it was.
From what I can determine, the quality control has gotten better. But items are still popping up. They shouldn't--the reputation of the boat depends on the quality control.
I don't agree with Lyle's sarcasm, but that is his privlege. I know that some don't agree with my honestly posting my findings on my boats, and would rather they they be swept under the carpet and ignored. The only way that we are going to keep the value of our boats is to have a quality product built. Ignoring problems will come back to bit the owners later in the boats lives.
I only refer you to the pictures of "Frequent Sea"--the cracks in the cockpit deck and fungus growing in the raw exposed core. The 1980 era boats are as strong as new--the 2003 25's will not be in 25 years unless they are fixed. If they are fixed, they will age as well as the 1980 boats have.
So yes, there is a time line, and let us hope that we are again back to quality boats.
+
Enter the new boats--specifically the 25. A raised floor, with plastic tanks. there were early problems documented with the tanks right away.
Also there were questions about the cockpit floor. We ended up buying a 2003 fairly early (#30). I found some issues which were definately factory design problems, and some which were carelessness. But the boat was used, and had be abused. The problems had not been brought to C Dory until the boat was for sale. C Dory stood behind the boat--but made it clear that that was it. The pastic tank was not now leaking nor had any real problems, so they would not replace it. (and I am not sure I really wanted them to). I did find things I felt were wrong from a construction standpoint--and I have personally corrected these, so that the boat is now better than new.
The Tom Cat 255 (2006--3 years later, and the 39th Tom Cat) had many quality control problems. I have to say that this was due to either ignorance by workers, lazyness, or lack of knowlege by the people in charge--and I have no way of knowing which it was.
From what I can determine, the quality control has gotten better. But items are still popping up. They shouldn't--the reputation of the boat depends on the quality control.
I don't agree with Lyle's sarcasm, but that is his privlege. I know that some don't agree with my honestly posting my findings on my boats, and would rather they they be swept under the carpet and ignored. The only way that we are going to keep the value of our boats is to have a quality product built. Ignoring problems will come back to bit the owners later in the boats lives.
I only refer you to the pictures of "Frequent Sea"--the cracks in the cockpit deck and fungus growing in the raw exposed core. The 1980 era boats are as strong as new--the 2003 25's will not be in 25 years unless they are fixed. If they are fixed, they will age as well as the 1980 boats have.
So yes, there is a time line, and let us hope that we are again back to quality boats.