Wives and the 22 without an enclosed head

D&RLuke

New member
This topic I'm sure has been addressed but I can't find it. If it has please direct me to the archive. My wife and I are ready to purchase a Cdory and she wants a 25 or tomcat with the enclosed head, I'd be ok with the 22. Can any of the ladies chime in about their experiences with the 22 and extended cruising? Thanks We're looking forward to becoming C-Brats.
 
I can only speak for Judy. Her first requirement when we bought Journey On was for a separate closed head. Never regretted that requirement, especially since I've gotten older. And the head compartment has gotten smaller.

We've had all the various options: porta-potty under the v-berth, porta-potty in a seperate enclosure and a head with a marine toilet feeding a holding tand. Judy wasn't going back and we bought a 25.

Boris
 
Not a wife issue, a common sense issue -- NO marine head on board with the associated holding tanks, plumbing and macerators. Get an "AirHead" or similar composting system. Saves tank space, and headaches. See Pat and Patty's Daydream ( a CD25 ) experiences. They will surely pop in here too.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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D&RLuke
I really like my 22, with the porta-potty. It is the best boat of the 70 some odd boats that I have owned and Joan and I have cruised it a lot over the last eight years. Several weeks ago, Joan got me a 26, so that we COULD have a head compartment. Also we will have more space to carry more stuff, for a bit longer cruises.
Now I am hoping that I WILL love the 26 as much as I have the 22...
 
Patty here. We had a 22' for 3 years and I never minded the porta potty under the V-berth, but I know it is an issue for many, usually women. Since 2005 we have owned a 25' C-dory and opted for an Airhead composting toilet. We. Love. It. Properly maintained there is no odor, it literally decomposts to what looks like the commercial fertilizer you can buy in bags. and you never have to pump out. We recently completed 8 months and 5428 miles of continuous use on the Great Loop and only had to dispose of the solids 4 times. Cannot say enough good things about it.
 
hardee":3686beqn said:
Not a wife issue, a common sense issue -- NO marine head on board with the associated holding tanks, plumbing and macerators. Get an "AirHead" or similar composting system. Saves tank space, and headaches. See Pat and Patty's Daydream ( a CD25 ) experiences.
So true Harvey. I also thought that I wanted a marine head and with our new R23, I now see why people aren't so fond of them for the very reasons Harvey pointed out. The porta potties are much simpler with virtually no smell. :disgust

I do love the hot shower however.

Peter
 
My wife has no problem with the porta potti on our 22. Depending on where we are, the porta potti is usually in the cockpit. We sometimes put it inside the cabin by the aft door at night. The place under the v-berth is only used to store the potti when the boat is being trailered.

If I had a 25 I'd probably have a porta-potti in the head just because it is sooooo much simpler to maintain (but then we usually only cruise for a few days at a time).
 
D&RLuke":pfse7r42 said:
This topic I'm sure has been addressed but I can't find it. If it has please direct me to the archive. My wife and I are ready to purchase a Cdory and she wants a 25 or tomcat with the enclosed head, I'd be ok with the 22. Can any of the ladies chime in about their experiences with the 22 and extended cruising? Thanks We're looking forward to becoming C-Brats.

If you just buy the 25 or T-C you will save a step in the 2-3 footitis :wink:

and have a happy wife :mrgreen:

I have never had an Issue with the head or tank or macerator & it gets used 10 months a year :wink:
 
Based on what gets said, some think the main difference between that 22 and the 25 is... the enclosed head. That head, with hot and cold running water/shower is great (would you rent a motel room without a bathroom??), but the big difference between the two is: space. Yes, space for an enclosed head, but also space for more storage, a bigger berth, more galley counter space, more headroom, cockpit lounging space, but most importantly: elbow room. Really, you can pass by each other in the aisle. Think that isn't important? Block your wife from getting through a doorway some time and see how that works for you. :twisted:

When we went to the 2006 Seattle Boat Show to pick a C-Dory (these were "the good ol' days when C-Dory had one of every model they make on display), we went into a 22... I thought it was great. And then into the 25... my wife said, "This one." Even better.

We spent up to 6 months at a time cruising on that great boat - and the elbow room made it very workable.

Now that you have received several opinions about different head options, let me offer another: I am not a fan of typical marine heads, with pump-type plumbing where most use raw water to flush. It is that saltwater and the critters enclosed that starts stinkin' up those hoses. Those who think some kind of air-head is the best way to go... well, have you ever been in a modern pit type toilet? Yeah, in spite of all the hype, they stink. Air heads that I have been around definitely omit an odor (that's part of why they use a fan). And, you may not be going to a pump-out with one, but you are dumping your urine somewhere... because it doesn't stay in that air-head. Now, it may be in a marina toilet, or some just pour it overboard. Try that in a protected area like the Florida Keys... we'll take up a collection for your bail money.

Our choice: the Sealand RV/marine head. It is kinda like a giant porta-potty in that the tank is under the toilet. It uses a small amount of fresh water to flush with, so less opportunity for critters dying in and stinking up the hoses. Most marinas have pump-out stations. If you are off-shore or in an area where it is acceptable, you can use the macerator to pump overboard.

One more thought about this type of head: there is a reason that every RV of significant size uses this type of toilet... it works. Reliably. You put the RV stuff in it and you eliminate the odor.

OK, enough of that crappy talk. The 25 will require a bigger tow vehicle (ours weighed 8,700 pounds on the trailer). It will ride more comfortably than the 22 in similar conditions. It will use more fuel than the 22... because it is bigger and heavier. That "3 feet" will get you another foot of beam and over 30% more interior volume. 25s generally come with a fridge, a 30 amp electrical system, 110 outlets, hot and cold pressure water... and more space. Two built-in seats in the cockpit. We once had 7 people in our cockpit. Yes, good friends.

I never regretted the fact that we spent more $$ for a 25. It just worked for our cruising style.

And now for this commercial announcement: the gentleman who bought our 25 has it back on the market (look for Wild Blue). Look in the Grand Adventures section of this forum for "The Cruising Adventures of Wild Blue and Crew" to get an idea of how we used the boat. That boat is a champ. If I were looking to get a trailerable cruising boat, I would buy it back in a heartbeat.

There are other boats in that size, but none have the efficiency,economy, and functionality of the CD-25 at its price point.
 
I can tell you the Mrs took one step into a 22 and said hell no when she realized there was no head. Now with two granDAUGHTERS, getting a little older ourselves and the larger volume overall of the 25, we would never go smaller nor would we go porta-potty. The head is not that big a deal to maintain, IMO. We have the Sealand unit noted above. It provides about 9gallons of storage, enough for two people for a couple/few days. Plus with the addition of a small generator you have hot showers.
 
James said,

"Now that you have received several opinions about different head options, let me offer another: I am not a fan of typical marine heads, with pump-type plumbing where most use raw water to flush. It is that saltwater and the critters enclosed that starts stinkin' up those hoses. Those who think some kind of air-head is the best way to go... well, have you ever been in a modern pit type toilet? Yeah, in spite of all the hype, they stink. Air heads that I have been around definitely omit an odor (that's part of why they use a fan). And, you may not be going to a pump-out with one, but you are dumping your urine somewhere... because it doesn't stay in that air-head. Now, it may be in a marina toilet, or some just pour it overboard. Try that in a protected area like the Florida Keys... we'll take up a collection for your bail money."

Jim, I have to admit that I have not been around very many "AirHead" composting toilets, but I have been around some. There is a significant difference between a "pit toilet" and a composting toilet. For those from the PNW, the composting toilets that the park system has on both Jones and Sucia Islands are considerably less odoriferous than the pit toilets, of say the forest camps or the pit toilets at the parks up in BC. The pit toilets have to be pumped out occasionally, the composting ones don't get pumped, but do get serviced occasionally. The liquids drain off, and the solids get dried stirred and converted naturally.

Yes in the Airhead, the liquid has to be dumped more frequently, so there needs to be a place for that to be ecologically soundly done.

Your mention of the Sealand RV/marine head sounds like a very good compromise, although I would probably still go with the AirHead at this point.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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The towability of the 22 vs. the 25 is one of the bigger reasons why we got it. Being able to easily take it to different places hundreds of miles apart is a big plus in our book. The economy of operating it doesn't hurt either. For where, when, and how we use it, the 22 suits us and we aren't spring chickens either. We don't have any problems with the elbow room. Usually it is just the two of us, but occasionally we have more people aboard, but it is usually for short periods (i.e. a few hours).

If the time comes when we have more time for cruising and live in a place that is more amendable to it, we will probably get a bigger boat. Whether it is a CD-25 or something else, well... we'll see.
 
I appreciate all the comments. It looks like I'll be on the hunt for a 25 especially when my Lady reads this. I was thinking about the mobility, cost and efficiency of a 22. But it looks like size and a proper composting toilet wins the game on this one. Now I've got to find one in the southeast.
 
D&RLuke":20tq7otv said:
I appreciate all the comments. It looks like I'll be on the hunt for a 25 especially when my Lady reads this. I was thinking about the mobility, cost and efficiency of a 22. But it looks like size and a proper composting toilet wins the game on this one. Now I've got to find one in the southeast.

Maybe you ought to actually discuss the situation with her and not make assumptions (get it?).
 
Although Marie tolerated the porti potty she is much happier with a marine head--and now that we have a shake down cruise on our 2nd 25, she has become a fan of the "Air Head". I rarely disagree with my friend Jim, but our air head did not have any offensive odor after a month of daily use, Yes there is a very small exhaust fan. But sniffing around the fan outlet didn't reveal any odor either. I was prepared not to be a fan of the Air head--now I am.

As for the direct dump type of toilet--the RV's we have owned have had holding tanks of up to 50 gallons...and there are plenty of places to dump them--not so many with the marine pump out stations. We found that many of the pump outs on the Tennessee and Cumberland rivers were not functional--and were very happy not to have to have dealt with that issue. To make head "matters worse", the macerator pump failed on our first 25 in a remote area. Try and find a new macerator pump--and then replace it with a 30 gallon full holding tank. Puts a whole new meaning to the "fit hits the shan"....

I do agree with Jim about the room in the 25--and with the whole port side bulkhead getting in and out of the bunk was far easier.

After a month and 750 miles on our current 25--Marie was ready to keep on going and even do the "loop". First time she has ever said that--including when we owned a 42 foot trawler...
 
What Dr. Bob said. Our Airhead has no discernible odor. The composting process is continuous, and it is pretty astounding. While I take no issue with his choice of the RV / marine style head he likes, Jim's comparison of the Airhead to a "pit toilet" is just off base, as people who have rafted to us or moored alongside us can attest. For the record, we emptied the solids container four times over eight month (and a fifth time when we got home). I used a black plastic garbage bag. The solids were mostly well decomposed and looked like compost from the garden store, with some small proportion not decomposed but easily dealt with using a garden trowel, maybe TMI but in the interests of full disclosure! I sealed the bags and deposited them bags in dumpsters.

When we were at marinas, we dumped the liquid tank in the marina toilet - I usually carried it up in a Raymarine cloth bag I got at the Seattle Boat Show! And there were a lot of places that we were able to dump the liquid container overboard without any qualms. Leaving out the argument whether urine is "sterile," "mostly sterile," or "not sterile," we would not dump it in restricted areas such as the Florida Keys. I would still far rather be looking for a toilet, for example in a COE recreation area or in a city park restroom, to dump the liquids container than be searching for a pump out! Pumpouts were pretty few and far between on lots of stretches, for example, between Hoppies and Green Turtle Bay and between Bobby's Fish Camp and Mobile! Also, since we preferred to anchor rather than stay at a marina whenever possible, we were frequently nowhere near a pumpout!
 
Thataway (and Pat) - I had been waiting for your review of the airhead, and happy to know it is positive. I have thought of a composting toilet that could on a 22 be moved around the boat to a convenient spot. Bow in the daytime, by the door at nighttime. Two places would be needed for venting, but that should not be to hard a problem.

I had worried about offensive smells from the venting in our marina, but sounds (smells) like that is not a problem.

If someone had a bad case of diarrhea how would that affect the composting?

Thanks
 
Hi Pat. Maybe you have it down better now... we were anchored by you in the Gulf islands (you may remember that we gave you our last 5 gallons of fresh water because Austin and his friend used all yours to rinse off with). We were downwind of you.

Sorry I mis-spoke by comparing it to a pit toilet. When we were working in the Tetons, the company installed two large composting toilets on Elk Island that the boat crews were charged with maintaining. These were NOT pit toilets, but rather "state of the art composting toilets". There was a definite learning curve, but they stunk (stank? stinked? :twisted: ).

A couple we used to hang with had an Airhead on their sailboat. Definite stink that came out of the vent. When they sold that boat, they said they'd never have another Airhead.

I am happy for those who find whatever works for them. There are many solutions to the issues of a boat head. We found the SeaLand RV/Marine toilet was easy.

A question for you regarding the Airhead on your boat: I know you removed your water heater, but is it possible to use the enclosed head for a shower with the Airhead in there? Any water leakage into it? We used to put a plastic cover over the toilet when showering, to keep the bowl from getting shower water in it (like a big shower cap).

Any plans to replace the toilet in your 5th wheel with an Airhead?
 
Jim'
The Airhead has good rubber seals on both the seat and lid, To get liquid into the "hopper' you have to open a "flapper valve"--otherwise they run down into the urine compartment, We have a shower curtain which can be put over the airhead if there is a "Threat" of water intrusion,

We have been next to Day Dream for several weeks at a time and never noticed any oder from Pat and Patty's boat...other than some good food cooking!

I have seen the type of "composting toilets" you described and they are no where like the AirHead, We have friends who lived in a converted bus for 4 years and loved their airhead,

Due to the ventilation necessity, and size of the Air Head, I am not sure it would be practical to move it from place to place...
 
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