What’s it like on lake powell lately?

Sorry- by "rainfall" I mean annual precipitation, which includes the snow.

Thataway - the answers are within the sources I posted. The damn building frenzy is mentioned in the books. I recall hearing that a very large proportion of all US dams were built within few decades. Because I don't remember what page or chapter, there's also this:

"The US went on its own dam-building frenzy between the 1920s and 1960s — before many of the full impacts of dams were well understood. Today, there are more than 79,000 dams across the country, and some have caused major problems. So, in recent decades, the US has removed about 1,000 of them, often at great expense.

The reasons varied. Some dams, by turning free-flowing rivers into stagnant reservoirs and disrupting flow and sediment regimes, ended up destroying whole ecosystems. The Elwha River in the Pacific Northwest, for instance, lost 90 percent of its salmon after being dammed up. Other dams turned out to be extremely expensive to maintain over the years, and many simply weren't worth the cost."

https://www.vox.com/2014/10/28/7083487/ ... -good-idea
 
Not only does one get into the issues of an area should be settled, where people are going to live, but how to generate power for what are now "necessities"(??) like air conditioning in S. Calif. Even today many dams are built to generate "clean energy"--which seems to be the goal of many environmentalists. You have the paradox of damming rivers vs the demand for flood control, water and power.

The massive dam building goes on all over the world currently. There are over 90,000 dams currently in the USA. Only a small number generate hydro power. (101 gigawatts; by retrofitting some current dams to produce hydropower, that could increase by 50 gigawatts.)

There are arguments of both sides of the issue. It is not at all black and white; or canyon vs lake. My preference is to have the canyon. But then I live in an area with a surplus of water, where all I need to do is drill a well about 240 feet deep and I am into a main aquifer under low pressure.

The coastal areas are trying to utilize desalinization plants--are they wise? How about a nuclear power generation using the waste heat to convert salt to fresh water?

It is just not a simple problem--and far from a craze.

Each visit to Lake Powell (11) we would read at least one book on the canyon and its history, impact etc before Glen Canyon Dam. See how the indigenous people utilize the water in the desert even today. Many communities do not have "running water". Go up San Juan Arm and talk to one of the Navajo who live in the area. Get their opinion.

Now today we are selling both our precious land but also water rights to foreign powers. Is this wise? How will history judge this? Can we really judge creation of Lake Powell today?
 
thataway":37h6v4lk said:
... Even today many dams are built to generate "clean energy"--which seems to be the goal of many environmentalists. ...
Click to expand...

If you consider the carbon released by the manufacture of all that concrete to build a dam, are they really all that "green"? Building the Hoover Dam released about 1.75 billion pounds of CO2.
 
ssobol":3t3rtsus said:
thataway":3t3rtsus said:
... Even today many dams are built to generate "clean energy"--which seems to be the goal of many environmentalists. ...
Click to expand...

If you consider the carbon released by the manufacture of all that concrete to build a dam, are they really all that "green"? Building the Hoover Dam released about 1.75 billion pounds of CO2.
Click to expand...

The reason for quote marks around the "clean energy". Not many free lunches. The transport, the steel, the cranes, destruction of habitat and trees, all make it "non green"

however there are some small hydro plants which are truly low or non polluting after the manufacture of the turbine and pipes or waterwheel.
 
Bullfrog News: August 12, 2022
Dear Partners:
Future Lake Powell Ramp Operations This Season: A reminder to Lake Powell boaters - the Bullfrog North Ramp will remain operational for houseboats and larger vessels until lake levels reach 3529 ft. and operational for smaller vessels until elevation 3525 ft. Please be aware that water levels are declining. The lake level as of August 11 was 3534.32. Current Bureau of Reclamation “most probable” projections indicate the lake could reach 3529.71 in August 2022 and 3526.75 as early as September: https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/24mo.pdf. BOR currently predicts a low of 3505.66 by March 2023. The Stateline Auxiliary Ramp near Page, Ariz. is operational for motorized vessels of all sizes and can be extended to elevation 3,490 ft., if necessary. Please stay tuned for further announcements.
 
jkidd":29n4m5qe said:
As of today water is just touching the bottom of the Halls boat ramp.

https://wayneswords.net/threads/its-wet ... post-92735
Click to expand...

There might still be hope to use Halls again. :) Also I'm getting an error msg stating:
Access denied
Error code 1020

You do not have access to wayneswords.net.

The site owner may have set restrictions that prevent you from accessing the site.

I have a registered login, so assume there is a problem with the site's server tonight.
 
just say this old post and the new updates of the water rising faster then most anyone thought. Where did all the " it will never fill again" group go???? and no it will not fill this year but it might by next year. Just like all the lakes in California do every 4 years or so.

Any one that can look back or like me just remember back to my youth knows this is a normal cycle. The only real problem that California has is not enough dams have been built. If the Auburn dam, the sofar project ( dam near Placerville ca ) and the raising of the Folsom dam had been built in the late 80 early 90s California would not have a water shortage in the very predictable regularity scheduled dry years.

You cant save your way out of a water shortage when the population doubles. less then 20 mil in 65 ( year I was born) and 40 mil now, with very little water storage added. There have been 21 dams since 1970 that all combined don't equal lake Oroville.

And here is a quote from the La times, "nearly 95% of incoming water has flowed into the Pacific Ocean, according to data from the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation."

40% of the water from the Sacramento river system ( all of Northern California from the coastal range to the sierras) goes right out to the ocean.

We need to save more water in the winter when the flow rate is high so we have it to release when it is not.

enough for that for today and as always I am not here to argue these facts. My family and my wives family have been in California since before it was a state. One of my uncles designed and built Oroville. Many of my family worked on it. I fished Oroville when it was 300ft below the ramp and " would never fill again" but it has three times including so full they broke it. Have had bomb fire parties and keggers at Folsom that would be in 100 ft of water today. It filled three years later. wet and dry cycles is what has always been the norm in California. The only thing that has changes is the amount of people and the planning for them or against them. We used to plan 50 years out for roads, highways , dams etc but now we just figure out how not to attract people to the state. California's population is on the way down from the first time since it became a state so its working.

PEOPLE
Population
Population Estimates, July 1, 2022, (V2022) 39,029,342
Population estimates base, April 1, 2020, (V2022) 39,538,245
 
Jody, I believe that all of these Col. River dams have spillways, so there is no threat of overcasting the dam.

Tom, Also there are vast underground storage areas, such has under the San Joaquin valley, which could be filled and then utilized without any major water loss by evaporation. But politics get in the way. (From another whose family goes way back in Calif. History.)

Even at this year's rate, it will take a number of years to fill Powell and Mead. As the water rises, the surface spreads out and the same volume of water in, causes less rise at the dam or ramps. I read one estimate that it would take 10 years to fill lake Powell. A lot depends on how much is retained in Powell, and how much released thru the Grand Canyon to Lake Mead and beyond.
 
On the left they are 8' steel plates to the top of the spillways and on the right they added 4X8 sheets of plywood because the water was going to top the spillway gates. The spillways got all eroded and move tons of rock into the river system. The water was 8.4 feet over full pool.

GC1983_1.jpg


Here is the video of the inspection and repair of the spillways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8xZzmt ... onvideoful
 
Fantastic video. What engineering and construction skill, mixed with some daring to go into those tunnels.

Hopefully the lesson learned to have the pool level so that there is no risk of overtopping the dam. Plus the forces are increased as the lake comes to full pool.

Thanks

Bob
 
At Lake Mead there are large diversion tunnels on both sides of the dam. The inlets to the diversions are a couple of feet lower than the max height limit on the dam. If the lake gets that high, the water will divert naturally.
 
ssobol":ixmuq3m1 said:
At Lake Mead there are large diversion tunnels on both sides of the dam. The inlets to the diversions are a couple of feet lower than the max height limit on the dam. If the lake gets that high, the water will divert naturally.
Click to expand...


If one of the tunnels collapsed and the other tunnel couldn't move all the water what would happen then? In 1983 Glen Canyon came so close to a catastrophe and they just got lucky and they almost had a repeat in 1984. Hopefully the modifications to the spillways at Hoover, Glen and Flaming Gorge solve the problem and we don't have any more repeats.
 
Bullfrog's main launch ramp is now open with the water level at 3578.08. that's 58.16 feet of rise from low water.
 
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