Wannabe C-Brat seeks input

S

Sir Mac

New member
I sure hope no one get's upset with me. I signed up as a member even though I don't currently own a C-Dory. My wife (the FisherGal) and I have considered and desired to be bonnafide C-Brats for coming up on a decade now. We really like these boats you guys/gals have chosen. We are lookng at the 25 to 27. Currently own a different brand which is our second boat. We like it just fine but we are making plans to travel, tow and cruise all over and where ever and want the extra room to allow for extended stays. As a referrence point I'll reveal our current boat is a Reinell 200B (20')which is actually a GlasPly hull which I have found to also be sold with a Beach Craft label affixed. We like it just fine yet it will not suit what we would like to do.
Here's what I am requesting. Will you kind folks please educate me on what you like about C-Dory's? I am particularly interested in how they handle in snotty water. Every boat rides like a cloud on soft riffle. Any and all opinions regarding other aspects of C-Dory's you want to share are desired. If anyone also has experience traveling and towing with a motorhome I would really appreciate your input too.

Thank you,

Hal
 
Welcome aboard. Most join before they buy a boat, so that is "normal".

The boats are Mini trailerable trawlers. But they do go fast--in the mid 20's.

In chop, you need to get the bow down--because the boat is a semi dory, with a relatively flat bottom and can pound if driven too hard into chop. The trim tabs and lower unit hydrofoil help to counter these tendencies.

The 25 and 27 will weigh in the 7500 to 9500 range-27's are rare, but there was one in the NE earlier this year, which would make a great conversion. We had a Holiday Rambler,30' and put a new transmission and lock up torque converter on it, as well as had the back frame rebuilt to tow the 25--about 7500 lbs. Most of that size RV are rated to tow only 5,000 lbs with tongue weight of 5,000 lbs. We also put on an equalizing hitch.

The over all length was maybe a tad over 65 feet, but no seat in Calif. If you go with a larger motor home, then for get Calif!

We are towing our current 22 with a Holiday Rambler 42 footer, with the Cummins 350 ISC, torque in the 1100 ft lb range and Allison 3000 series transmission and exhaust brake. This is great, and you don't know that the 22 is back there...we normally tow a Yukon XL @ 6000 lbs. BUT the 22 and the RV is over 70 feet long. So we tow the 22 behind the Yukon XL in Calif or other "touchy states". No problem with Arizona, NM, OK, Texas, MS, Al aFL, GA etc....Don't try that in the New England area or Calif!

What we like is the pilot house--even in Florida--plenty of ventilation and shade with the windows open. Great layout for a small boat. everything you need is there. We slept on the boat--on the water and in campgrounds almost 6 weeks this summer. You get an extra "room" with camper canvas.

For the 25, I recommend either a long Wheel base SUV or truck, with weight in the back in 3/4 ton. The Yukon XL would be OK with the 5.2 L engine. We had a diesel Excursion, with the 7.3 diesel,and it was fine for the 25 fully loaded.
 
Thanks for the responses.

Good, you have towed with MH. I have had my concerns with manuvering such a long combination. Checking some of the smaller class A diesel pushers I find that 35'ish footers are not uncommonly rated for 10,000 pound towing. Of course, rating is one thing and day in day out pulling plus long grades are another.

I hadn't even considered states regs of limiting total length. I guess I had better find out what each state has as limits. That could put a wrench in my spokes. What is the limit for Cali?

I have heard about the C-Dory's being bumpy if pushed in heavy chop, but I am not sure what size water and at what speed people are referring to. My Reinell 200B has tabs and a Whale Tail on the drive, previous boat did too. I wouldn't consider not having the same set up. Even some control back there better than nothing. My first boat was real responsive to this set up. This one is not as much. The keel and chines are longer and straighter which make it run flatter to start with. I had generated a similiar expectation for a 25 C-dory.

I too had entertained towing the boat and using it as a camping trailer. I don't know if I would want to do it day in and day out that way. I gave the kids the "Country Cottage" massive and delux tent they grew up camping in. I'm tired of the production of making and breaking that much camp.

Hey, thanks for the input and the warm welcome.

Hal
 
Welcome aboard, Hal,

Prior to getting the C-Dory, we towed a Corsair trimaran sailboat all over with a 40' diesel pusher coach. Yes, we were over-length, at almost 80' total. The coach had a 10,000 pound tow rating. My wife drove separate with a Chevy Tahoe, which gave us a daily driver and a vehicle to launch with. There were a couple times we launched/retrieved with the coach, but ramps that had enough room for that turning radius were rare. We had issues with RV parks/campgrounds being able to accommodate our length. The "fun" of taking it all with you became a lot of work.

We decided to go with one or the other (land RVing vs boat cruising) when we retired and got the 25' C-Cory. Even pulling with a 3/4 ton diesel pickup (with HD towing package), you know that boat is back there. The boat on the trailer weighs in at 8,700 pounds. We do stay on the boat in RV parks while on the road. We have towed our boat over 40,000 miles since we got it 6 1/2 years ago. The best thing we did for towing was upgrading the surge brakes to electric over hydraulic.

As far as the ride of the boat in snotty weather/water: the boat inspires confidence. The pilothouse keeps you dry; warm when the weather is cold, and shade when the sun is blazing. The floorplan/layout works good for a couple. When the waves build above 2' or so, we start slowing down. We don't intentionally go looking for nasty conditions, but when caught out in it, slow down and the boat handles it. Most of our cruising is at 16 knots or 6 knots, with more time spent slower to enjoy the scenery and increase the miles per gallon.

The C-Dorys have a relatively flat hull. Try to push the speed when there is steep chop and the boat will pound. Some don't mind that, I don't like it at all... slow down and the ride is comfortable. The boat goes where you point it; try that same thing with a deeper V hull and the boat will wallow around. It's important to pick a hull shape that gives the ride/economy you are after.

That same flat hull and relatively tall structure above the water means the boat will "sail" around some at anchor. It also means the boat stays pretty level at anchor, making the time aboard even more comfortable. This past summer, we spent 6 months onboard. This is a great boat for our use! :thup

Good luck with your search. This forum is a great resource, both before and after you get your C-Dory.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Hi Hal. Welcome aboard. I just got my CD-22 this last spring. Started with a 21' Pontoon, to a 26' Cabin Cruiser, and now this. This boat can do everything (go the same places) as my last two boats. I live in the Midwest, and while much of my boating is on the local inland lakes, I've also been on the Mississippi River, and Lake Michigans and Superior. No doubt about it, the Cdory does pound on chop. But from my limited past exerience, all boats do. The C-dory has less berth space than my Searay Sundancer (26') did, but it's all a tradeoff. The Searay weighed 9700 lbs on the trailer....the Cdory 4500. At one time I had a 31 foot Winnebago Class A that I towed with. No big deal. With the 4000 lb pontoon, I didn't feel it back there. With the 9700lb, I barely felt it. Different story behind a Dodge Ram 1500 Quad cab PU. The weight was noticeable on either boat. As for length, I was pushing 60 feet. No problem as I have driven semi before... As long as you know you are hauling back there a ways, and know the area you are getting into and how to manuever it all, you are just a lot longer than most boaters... ;-) I actually had more issues with the swing out on the rear of the motorhome in tight campgrounds, than the boat. (My trailer hitch was 11 feet behind the rear axle.) I'm towing the CD22 with a Toyota Highlander w/ a 6 cyl now. And the set up works great. Only complaint is the sag in the rear end of the Highlander with 350 lbs of tongue weight. I've also always ran electric brakes on every trailer I've owned. Much safer and better control than Surge. I've heard about the electric over hydraulic, but from what I've seen they are pretty expensive. I've had many argue that you shouldn't/can't run electric on boat trailers. Bull. Unless you have stainless steel brakes, the components are all pretty much the same, except that you are replacing hydrualic cylinders (with hydraulic fluid that loves moisture...) with sealed magnets. Salt is going to affect either brake! Just keep them clean. And disconnect them before dunking. I thought about the 25' C-dory before buying the 22. But from what I have seen is the only thing you gain is an extended pilot house to make room for the stand up head. And not a very large space mind you. Either boat is going to be tight in the sleeping quarters. I've seen a lot of different things done with the 22', just at one gathering this past summer. Don't rule it out as a good do it all boat. Especially if you want to go a little lighter for towing, etc. But if you are towing with a motorhome, the larger ones seem to easily allow 10,000 lbs on tow weight. And if you are comfortable with the length, and legalities, go for it! Colby
 
More good info. I was thinking of a 35' coach and the 25'C-D as a combination. I realize the shorter the motorhome is the easier manuvering will be plus finding accomodations. I want a washer+dryer on board. Laundromats are almost as hard to find these days as pay phones. I realize the rv sites have them but at this moment the independance seems important. Water and holding capacity cause limitations.
I think we will likely pick up a quality used, relatively less expensive motorhome soon and try this closer to home as a trial for feasability. I just know I am becoming less interested all the time taking care of this home and property. I am not excited about that being my retired future. Besides, I have this darned project creating disease. Here I am writing to you and waiting for daylight to get out and advance on one currently in the works.
My sweetie and I were talking about all the places we would want to explore having that level of flexibility. This prospect is exciting.
I did find a site which listed all the towing max lengths of all the states and provinces to help with selecting routes of travel.
I find it interesting that you and others have elected to use your C-Dory as a boatel otherwise referred to a boaterhoming. I still need to look into rv memberships for locations and amenities.
 
Ok, good, another motorhome tow'er.
I'd like to get more info regarding handling the trailer when it is behind a motorhome. Swing out - I understand the distance from the rear axle to the hitch/ball pivot location as being longer than my pickup. I have towed since I was a kid and have been told I am more proficient than most. I am not sure how the added length from rear axle to hitch pivot will affect backing the same trailer. Visibility can be overcome with cameras and monitors.
 
I had very few problems towing with the motorhome. Again, it was a 31 foot with V10 Ford up front. While I did tow the larger Searay a few times, most of the boat towing with the motorhome was the 21 foot Suntracker pontoon boat. By swing out, I'm talking about the rear end of the motorhome going outside your turn. With the 11 feet my (and I think many of the longer gas motorhomes) between axle and rear bumper, say if you were to make a hard left turn, that rear end is going to swing out to the right. I had my rig in some fairly tight campgrounds, as far as the roads in and out went. But there will be some you just can't maneuver something that big in. Just stay out of them....walk in first if you're not sure. I did get caught once or twice in a situation I had to back out of, one time I had to back the boat into a hidden driveway off the right side, with trees and downhill driveway to boot. Lot of sweat on that one, but got it right the first time! ... Fortunately, my late wife then was very good at giving backing instructions (not something easy to do, as I've tried....) and we had a set up of her on a hand held CB while I tuned her in on the RV unit. With a rig as big as a Motorhome and boat, you just have to have confidence, and over time experience (that either keeps you out of trouble, or gets you in trouble... :=) I have not "land camped" on my boat, yet. I have spent a few nights on the water in it. But my preference is to dock it at a nice resort or cabin. We use to enjoy boating on the pontoon boat, then pulling up to the shore and sleeping in the motorhome. Backing the boat behind the motorhome was actually easier than backing behind the Dodge Ram. That is because the pontoon (and the Searay) were both slightly wider than the truck, but the same width as the motorhome. With the side mirrors, it was very easy to see all the way down the side of either boat...whereas the truck mirrors did not protrude out far enuf to get a really good look beside and behind the boat. Again, if the trailer launch had the room, the motorhome was easier to use. However, on a steep ramp, you had that 11' hangout issue again. (Really rises the front of the boat trailer as it goes down the ramp, and you are still waiting for the back wheels of the RV to break over the drop...) Backing also is going to be affected by length between the axles of the boat and Motorhome. Short space between axles get to be easy to over correct. Longer axles make it easier, at least for me. I have not towed the CD22 behind anything but an Excursion and the Highlander. But it backs easily, and since it is a little skinnier than the Searay and Pontoon was, easy to see along side and behind as well with my current tow vehicle, a Toyota Highlander. There are a lot of different campsites out there. We use to love pulling up to campgrounds on lakes. Especially those that allowed the boat to be beached somewhere near the campsite! Look at some of the rigs pulling into campgrounds. If they can allow a large dually with a 30 or 40 foot camper, are you really that much longer? Also, many campgrounds will have somewhere you can drop your boat/trailer while you set up camp. Of course then you have to break camp to get your tow vehicle back to the boat/trailer. My new wife isn't into the motorhome method of travel. If she were, I'd go back in a heartbeat to pulling the CD22 behind a motorhome. Best of both worlds! Colby
 
Another thought that just came to mind. I did also have a small, 14 or 16' fishing boat. IT was really too small to see much behind the motorhome, and a real bitch to back. I added a small hitch reciever to the front of the motorhome, and it made it fairly simple to launch and retrieve that smaller boat.
 
I launched the 25 behind the 30 foot RV "solo" multiple times on steep and narrow ramps--much easier than a 14 foot boat, as noted by ColbySmith.

There are some specific rules for boat trailers, and perhaps some LEO can address this. As I understand it the boat can overhand the 65 foot limit, but it is the rear bunk of the trailer or trailer frame which is counted in the LOA measurement. I did talk to one off duty CHP officer who was looking at my rig, and he felt it was OK....but if you go to anything over 30 feet in Calif. you will be running a risk.

My neighbor has a new 33 foot Fleetwood product, and it has a 10,000 lb towing capacity. Even though the overhang on the diesels is not as much as the gas RV's--be careful with the shorter diesels,--many are too light in the front end, and we have seen some which have put iron ballast up front--this runs the risk of overloading the coach. Any weight on the rear might cause steering problems in these short, light weight coaches. Most towing with RV's is with no weight on the rear--towing cars. On the other hand, many of the larger (45 foot) RV's will tow trailers which have cars and golf carts of motorcycles in them, and have OAL of over 80 feet. OK in a few states, and ignored in most, as long as you don't have commercial appearing decals etc. Recently in the SKF tournament a number of the boats were stopped at Florida/AL border because of the wraps on the boats, advertising on the trucks, oversize loads and lack of CLD--one guy got a $3,000 ticket, and was delayed over 3 hours.

We have a set up for separate washer and dryer, in our RV, and did not take this option--it makes great storage and pantry!. We have RVed for over 50 years, and never felt the need for washer/dryer in coach. Most of the "Combi" units take only small loads, and are slow to dry (we have had them in larger boats). Also you are correct that water is a real problem. The smallest Combi units use 30 gallons of water per each load. There are plenty of laundramats, an they are great places for local information.
 
Bob brings up a good point about tongue weight, that I forgot to mention. When I did pull the Searay behind the motorhome, the tongue weight was about 550-600 lbs. When I had that boat on, I never allowed the wife and kids in the back bedroom of the motorhome when we were driving. At 600 lbs of trailer tongue, it did feel a little lighter on the front end of the coach. Especially if I also had water in the water tank which was also behind the axle...(Not reallly a problem on dry roads, but in rain and snow that would matter!) I did speak to the RV dealer about the load rating of 300 lbs trailer tongue. He stated most folks just beefed up the hitch by welding it on rather than bolting it on. In retrospect, I suspect it had a lot to do with the suspension and fulcrum of having the hitch 11 feet behind the back axle. I suppose one could go to a weight distributing hitch, but at the time they really were not recommended for boat trailers. Colby
 
The only reason that some equalizing hitches were not used on boat trailers is because of the surge brakes. Equalizer, does work with surge brakes--and if you are going to use the electric over hydraulic then any equalizer type of hitch will work. As for the magnetic--I know of a number of failures where these have been used in salt water, and strongly recommend against them in that application.

As for beefing up the hitch. First you want a first class hitch shop to do that who understands exactly what the dynamics are. Most gas RV's have an extension welded on the chassis for the rear support and the hitch. This often is not strong enough for the hitch increased load. There are problems with welding onto an RV frame, including damage to the electronics, if proper pre-cautions are not taken.

In our case, we just upgraded by increasing the bolts and type of bolts, adding some further bolted on members and beefing up the frame which was present. The transmission was a complete upgrade and rated for the Gross combined vehicular weights which we would be moving. This was entire upgrade was not cheap, but we had a solid RV which we had just upgraded the carpet upholstery, floors, TV's etc.

I am not sure why there are two parallel threads, It would be nice if they could be combined.
 
I really appreciate everything all of you are adding to the advice, opinions and guidance. I'm getting pointers on things I didn't know (which was the goal), pointers on things I hadn't considered (too cool) and confirmations of outlooks I already had (reassuring). You are all the best. You know what I like the most? You have all been friendly, generous, and gracious and even with each other even though you may not share exactly the same opinions.
Hats off to C-Brats. I feel honored to receive your attention. I look forward to the time I'm siting in my 25 and get to meet you folks face to face.

Thank you and Happy Holidays
 
Sir Mac":2g7tasol said:
I really appreciate everything all of you are adding to the advice, opinions and guidance. I'm getting pointers on things I didn't know (which was the goal), pointers on things I hadn't considered (too cool) and confirmations of outlooks I already had (reassuring). You are all the best. You know what I like the most? You have all been friendly, generous, and gracious and even with each other even though you may not share exactly the same opinions.
Hats off to C-Brats. I feel honored to receive your attention. I look forward to the time I'm siting in my 25 and get to meet you folks face to face.

Thank you and Happy Holidays
Click to expand...

Great! And don't forget to consider a Tomcat. There's been some great deals on used Tomcats on this site and you might like it as much or better than a 25. Bigger berth (by far), better in snotty weather and fuel economy that's not a ton different than a 25. The main downside is cost and towing weight but it's a damn fine fishing boat and cruiser. With the 255 Tomcat, it's got the good looks of a C-dory too.
 
we have the 22' cruiser. we got a c-dory for a family ocean and fishing boat. while it has a smaller deck then the angler the wife really liked the cruiser. it is a flat bottom and took some getting used to switching over from a deep v. the only complaint I have about it is in confused seas or 1/4 waves on the stern it tends to "surf" or get pushed more than I would like.
I still think I will get to learn ways around this, trim tabs did wonders for it. but while in CQ this year coho fishing I saw my same boat at the dock so I went and said hello. the owner has owned the boat since day 1 it too was 89. when I questioned about the "surfing" he said theres no getting away from it and you learn to just go with it. he had some pretty impressive stories getting caught in the weather 60 miles offshore too. that said I have never once questioned the boats ability.
I have only had it going on year 1, but have been logging hours at the wheel. worst I have had it in was 6-7' seas so far. but with this upcoming halibut and tuna season I know she will see bigger seas, and I have the most confidence that she will get me where I need to go and back. if I questioned it at all I would be selling it. there great boats and really are seaworthy.
oh and we tow ours with a 2003 quad cab tacoma.
 
I'll second what Roger said. We looked at 25s too before we traded up to the TC. The full queen berth is awesome. If you sleep athwart ship instead of fore and aft however, one has to get over the other to get to the head in the wee hours. We found there are more advantages to that instead of disadvantages however..

:hug :love :hug2 :roll:

It's great in snotty weather. Although if it gets extremely snotty, :love :hug2 starts to emulate the weather! :disgust

Charlie
 
Actually Charlie's boat is setup so that one person can sleep fore and aft, and the other person/persons athwart ships in the forward over length queen berth--to avoid the climbing over the other issue. This is accomplished by an extra cushion over the foot well in front of the "navigator's seat"--which makes this area the same level as the forward berth.
 
thataway":2njrh51u said:
Actually Charlie's boat is setup so that one person can sleep fore and aft, and the other person/persons athwart ships in the forward over length queen berth--to avoid the climbing over the other issue. This is accomplished by an extra cushion over the foot well in front of the "navigator's seat"--which makes this area the same level as the forward berth.
Click to expand...

Dr. Bob and Marie are more perpendicular than Sally and I. We are parallel folks I guess. Actually we prefer a king and have one at home which provides room for :cat :cat :cat :cat and a :dog They climb all over us at home which is why they don't get underway with us. All that having been said, both the 25 and the TC255 provide plenty of room for two folks. I'd take a close look at both and try to take a ride on each before you make up your mind.

Good luck, keep us informed of your progress..

Charlie
 
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