Value of Autopilot

J

jhayes1068

New member
I can't remember which member of the "Brats" posted about the value of having a autopilot on his boat, but anyone with a autopilot, please feel free to chime in. The person mentioned, that by having the autopilot on his boat, it allowed him the freedom of being able to use binoculars, and attend to other tasks that he could not have done without the unit. My questions are: 1. How is the autopilot tied into the GPS/Plotter electronics, and is the unit accurate enough to stay on course without manual input? 2.Is the input from the autopilot sent to the helm and directional changes made through a electric motor? 3. What would be a ball park figure for a autopilot system? 4. Darn, can't a rookie ask a bunch of questions when he's attempting to learn something? :D Thanks, Jim
 
We have a CD22 with a S1000 AutoPilot - I wouldn't have a boat without an AutoPilot. We like to go trawler speeds and just relax - the autopilot allows us to do that. For the most part we use it to just go straight - I perfer to steer with the autopilot instead of the steering wheel while going slow. I do have my autopilot linked in with my laptop and navigational software. During our North Channel trip, I would setup a route, then just flip the autopilot on and it would follow the route to the tee.

The S1000 is directed by the GPS and hooked directly into the hydraulic steering with a pump that does the steering.

I don't recall the cost, but I think it was in the $750 range - but I don't recall for sure.
 
We have an S-1000 on our TC255 and love it. It takes a lot of effort out of the minding of the helm. You still have to look where you are going, of course, but don't have to sit there with your hands on the wheel. It will stay on a course, go to a waypoint, follow a route of several waypoints.

It's best to have hydraulic steering, SeaStar or BayStar, it has a pump that moves the rams that turn the motors. I suppose other steering systems would work but it's more difficult.

Hooks into the NEMA output of the GPS/Plotter. Costs abt $750 or so.

Ask all the questions you like!!

Wouldn't be without it..

Charlie
 
Interesting. I started looking at what autopilots are available for small power boats.

As a prologue, I installed a Raymarine S1 autopilot on Journey On. It's great and we have thoroughly enjoyed it. Wouldn't be without an autopilot, because it allow one to really navigate the boat, instead of concentrating on steering, as well as eliminating the drudgery of steering at low speeds. Do have to hand steer in rough weather. I think that the S1G (gyro stabilized would reduce this, but it was $500 more.

I now see that Raymarine has dumped that model in favor of the S1000. The difference between the two is that the S1 had a fluxgate compass, whilst the S1000 uses GPS input. This means that the S1000 has to be moving before it gets direction, and thus is not as stable or responsive as the S1. I understand that the lower speed at which it will control is 3 knts. Nevertheless, users (including C-Brats) are obviously happy with the S1000, and it was/is cheaper, with the S1 running a couple of hundred more.

An alternative is the SITEX SP-70L autopilot which is similar to the S1000.

Since jhayes1068 doesn't have a boat size listed the question of what autopilot to use is open. For up to a 22' (C-22) boat the S1000 is OK, for a 25' boat (C-25) I'd try to find an autopilot with a dedicated compass, and for a twin engine cat (C-255) it seems a little slow.

The only problem I had was in bleeding the hydraulic steering. Had to have it power bled.

Boris
 
I had a CD25 with a single Mercury Verado 150 and a Gladiator TR-1 autopilot. I believe Garmin has since bought Gladiator.

To be perfectly honest, I don't remember the exact price. Most likely that is because I didn't want to tell the Mrs. so I forced myself to forget it. I do know that it was expensive (mine was installed) and I believe ~$3k.

I read the two previous posts listing $750...I don't know why mine was so expensive. Maybe it was the connection to the Verado, or I'm an easy mark. :cry

None-the-less, I loved it and wanted one on my current boat but this one has 2 Verados and the exorbitant price doubled so I reluctantly said no.

I know that 'fast' boats have them, but to me it is definitely a cruising tool. You can't just set it and forget it because at least up here in the PNW there is too much junk floating in the water that can really ruin a fun day if you hit it.

I found it most useful to set when crossing large bodies of water where I couldn't see land in front of me to get a bearing and had to travel by compass heading. At least with the autopilot I knew I was going straight. :-)

I hope if you decide to get one, your price is closer to the one quoted by the other responders.
 
We too have the S-1000 and love it. After our 2004 Cruise north from Prince Rupert, BC decided it would be the highest priority addition for our next cruise. Changed to hydraulic steering to do it and yes we set it, slow cruise and use the binoculars. Hang the remote steering control from my neck and steer from anywhere on the boat including while sitting up on the bow. Most of the time don't follow a route or waypoint though its great for doing that rather instead just set a desired heading and correct with the remote when desired. Sure made a difference on our 2007 Alaska wilderness cruise.

Jay
 
Sarge":2gpckoi3 said:
Most likely that is because I didn't want to tell the Mrs. so I forced myself to forget it. I do know that it was expensive (mine was installed) and I believe ~$3k.

I read the two previous posts listing $750...I don't know why mine was so expensive. :cry
Click to expand...

Sarge, the reason yours was so expensive was because you told the "seller" of the unit that you didn't want your wife to know the price... :mrgreen: (That would more commonly be referred to as "hush money".... :shock: .

Like others I wouldn't be without an auto pilot. In limited visibility situations the helmsman can concentrate in watching for flotsam, other vessels etc. and not be concerned about zigzagging and wandering about in circles. Normally, I use mine as "point and shoot", and I'm certain that I have saved a few gallons of fuel over the years by maintaining a straight and true course through more open bodies of water. (The cost factor for me was figured into the price of the boat package installed along with the gyro compass). Two weeks ago I was at the helm of a vessel without autopilot.......what a PIA! that was.....I think i'm spoiled... :wink
 
I have used auto pilots many tens of thousands of miles at sea, but have elected to not have one on the C Dories I have owned. The reason for this is that we normally "drive" the C Dory at higher speeds, and I like to have my "hands on the wheel, eyes on the road" at high spees. If I was going long distances in a straight line, slow speed running or doing a lot of trollling I would have an auto pilot on the C Dory.

The auto pilot can have input from either the GPS or a compass. A rate gryoscope compass is the best, and can be integrated with your navigation system to give overlay of radar on the chart plotter. You do not have to pay attention to actual steering, but you still have to maintain a very careful lookout. Generally if I am using binoculars, taking photos or using night vision scopes, I either slow the boat down to a displacement speed (6 or so knots) or stop the boat. l I don't want to have "tunnel vision" thru a lense, when the boat is going fast.

Agree that auto pilots are far better on hyraulic steering. The motor of the pilot drives a hyraulic pump, and there are check valves which keep the wheel from moving.

There is some noise from most pilots; the pump set (motor and pump) is usually put on the bulkhead behind the helm.


The cheapest and easiest to install is the RayMarine S1000. However RayMarine is a company to watch because of its financial problems. If you have RayMarine instruments, then this is most likely the pilot for you. It is very easy to install, mostly wireless control; uses Sea Talk, or NMEA 0183 to the chart plotter. There is no rudder (or motor position) sensor, which is often a problem for some types of pilots. The hyraulics are easy to connect to the Sea Star Steering. Cost is about $1000. There are more expensive and more powerful RayMarine pilots--the S1000 is good for boats up to 25 feet.

Next up the line I would consider the Simrad AP24--a bit more sophisticated unit, with a rate gryo compass and a price tag of about $2600--considerably more powerful and rugged than the cheaper RayMarine unit. Also in about the same price range is the Garmin TR1 variant.

Top of the line for an outboard would be the Furuno 511, at $3300.

Heck, All of the C Dories are fun to drive!
 
Ha ha - are you guys having lunch, taking naps, and using the head while underway with the autopilot? I think Charlie was the only one who mentioned being in the cabin while underway...but he was probably under the galley storage area trying to fish out the olives from his Vodka winterization antifreeze :shock:

Seriously - I bet it would be a nice addition if you were cruising slow in wide open/non-congested areas. I only have 1500 nautical miles on my Tomcat so I still like to have my hands on the wheel :D
 
A word of caution - an autopilot needs to be used properly - it is not an excuse to go to the galley and fix grits, or duck into the v-berth to use the head. There are zillions of examples (from Boat US) of insurance claims from boats hitting logs, each other, a buoy, or an island! when the autopilot does it's job - holds a blind-eyed preset course. If users understand that an autopilot is potentially dangerous (and has caused numerous accidents) including many fatalities (one on a Montana lake we were cruising this summer - when a boat ran onto shore at high speed guided by autopilot) - it is useful instrument and can add safety (if properly used).

We find an autopilot unnecessary with our small boat. We want hand on the wheel (for instant reaction, if there's a half-sunken log spotted a few feet off our bow) and eyes on the water. Too easy to let mind or feet wander from the job with an autopilot (for us).

And we have had them on earlier boats so have plenty of experience with them and know we have not always used them properly - hmmm, even after 50 years together we still like to talk with each other with eye contact.
 
Thanks for the replies from everyone. It sure gives me a lot of information to digest. My reasoning for adding autopilot is that the trips that I have planned, will for the most part, be long trips and solo. That is unless the martians land and put a hex on my wife's thinking about small boats :mrgreen: From the discussion I think it makes sense to buy a boat with hydraulic steering rather than try to retrofit a older boat.

Boris, at this point I'm leaning toward a CD-22 Cruiser ,but, I'll wait until I can get "hands on" on several boats before I buy. It's great to have a website available that steers me down the right path in that decision. Regards, Jim
 
For trolling (if you do that) they are nearly a must have. Going slow in waves or angled winds is really a lot of work manually. The S1000 does a great job of handling this and has never come close to putting a wire near my prop (like I do manually :roll: ).
 
Hi Cris, I wouldn't be doing much trolling, but I think the autopilot would be a great help in cross current/wind direction conditions. Just having the ability to relax on long straight portions of a trip and be alert to what the boat traffic and water/wind conditions are doing, would be nice. I think a hands on approach is in order around some of the close quarters that the inside passage deals up. I'd hate to look up and see the Columbia or some other BIG BOAT about to run over any part of my boat! The one thing I noticed when we traveling down the Inside Passage was the heavy boat traffic and some tugs towing log rafts and other loads that would make it easy to get in between the tug, tow cable and the load if I wasn't careful. :shock: Thanks, Jim
 
See my post on the tug hitting Bligh reef:
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=30

Although there are two of us on board most of the time, we always have hands on. The last 3 summers are on the inland passage--Gulf Islands, Broughtons and SE Alaska. Our average day's runs were in the 50 mile range-occasionally 100 miles, and some days none or 5 miles. Average speed was 17 knots. It was not unusual to stop and fish or explore along the way. The Inland passage, takes hands on the wheel because of the water conditions, debris and traffic. Even on the Cal 46, which we spent 4 summers going back and forth to Alaska at 6 knots, we had a "dodge" button in the helmsman hand's at all times.

Any of the rivers, or ICW's require the same type of attention. If you want to go to Catalina--28 miles of open ocean (and a few vessels)-then an auto pilot is ideal. Trolling, I agree almost essential. If we buy another trawler--it will have an auto pilot.

It will cost an additional $1000 to install hydraulic steering in an older boat--but if you save $25,000 on the boat, it is no big deal. You always want to allow a certain percent (for us it is 25% of the purchase price ) for upgrades on any boat we buy. We are pleasantly surprised when it is less.
 
Bob, we also did the Inside Passage in a sailboat, from Vancouver to Juneau and to San Diego. I certainly agree that one has to keep watch for impediments to forward progress: logs, sandbars, rocks (as in Bligh Reef,) and my contention is that an autopilot improves this watch. The autopilot DOES NOT relieve one from the responsibility of navigating the boat.

"Hands on" I assume means that a person is steering the boat, which further means that one is trying to keep the compass needle aligned while simultaneously navigating: selecting the proper course AND watching out for debris. The autopilot just steers the selected course, freeing the helmsman for the important task of navigation. The autopilot does not free you for going to the head or other trips away from the helm, but does let you do a better job of keeping watch. In this it's just doing a mechanical task of making sure that the boat is pointed in the direction you choose. An autopilot is only a mechanical device and doesn't make judgments. If used correctly, it's an important contribution to safety.

When we're on autopilot, there is one person watching the helm, and if that person has to do something else (aka going to the head,) another takes over. We rarely travel over 15 knts because of the very same concerns that you mention in your post, and the ASSISTANCE of the autopilot has kept us out of trouble.

Boris
 
When at displacement speed in calm remote waters we move about the boat freely with the auto pilot engaged. All other times do exactly as Boris describes and agree with his judgment that this is actually safer then with hands physically steering the boat especially in long stretches angling against the oncoming waves where I found the auto pilot does a better job than me. In 2004 when we were heading back south across the Dixon entrance to Prince Rupert the continually steering in these conditions was very tiring and extremely hard on the tendinitis I had in my right elbow. Ended up with surgery on that elbow shortly after that trip. Now while on a wild river such as the Yukon or entering and exiting a narrow tidal channel searching out an area for anchoring or exploring the hands are definitely attached to the steering wheel.

Jay
 
Bob, thanks for the link to your Bligh Reef encounter. I know that situation can easily happen to anyone. I also allow a percentage over the cost of a boat, either for problems that might not be evident on shakedown, or to upgrade something on the boat. Yes, I'd certainly change anything on a boat for $1,000 that would save me $5,000-$20,000 on the purchase price of the boat. :D Jim
 
Boris,

That is particularly true in fog when you have no visual clues (other than the compass and GPS) to keep the boat on it's intended track.

It is very nice to know the boat will continue on that track and leave the driver a bit more time to look out for "nasties" on radar, AIS, audibly, and visually.
You still have to check it but you gain time for the tough stuff.

It always amazes me just how easy it is to start manually wandering off course just to miss some "blob" or other and hard it is to get back on track again while your brain is looking for the next one. Cross track error can build up pretty fast and out here there are plenty of big, non moving lumps to run into.

I was a non believer until I tried it and now I am convinced that it is one more, very useful tool rather than an absolute.

Merv
 
Our CD-25 has the ST6001 Autopilot. For the first year or so, we didn't use the autopilot much... seems we were always running 15 knots or faster. I can program the autopilot to a heading (most often use), a waypoint (rarely), or a route (never). To relate this to flying (closer in function than driving a car), it's about cockpit (helm) resource management: you use the best tools for the situation. In low vis conditions, I generally run with the autopilot on - it allows me to more closely monitor the radar and keep a watch out the window. When going long distances at displacement speed, I will sometimes run the autopilot to relieve fatigue. We also trade off on the helm. The way we generally use the autopilot is to turn it on with the boat on the heading we want; fine tune with 1º adjustments. This doesn't compensate for set and drift, so you still need to make adjustments as necessary... and keep a watch. We rarely use the A/P when running at planing speeds.

I consider it to be another tool. It doesn't replace judgment nor negate the need to keep a watch. Certainly not a necessity. Some people feel the same about a chartplotter or radar. The tool is only as competent as it's proper usage.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Great summaries by all. Yes, it is wonderful tool and when used properly
can save you from a lot of fatigue.

I pulled my cost for the ST6001/ S1G Autopilot... $1650. It is part of the
older C80/ RADAR (4KW)/ Chart Plotter (chips) setup. It was part of total
pkg price of abt $6500 in 2004. You may still be able to locate the
ST6001/ S1G for the above price through West Marine. They had them in
the warehouse abt 6 months ago. Note - There is a 'rudder' positioning
sensor mounted on the ram arm to the twin OBs which helps the tracking
even further.

Hope I didn't scare you away with the cost, but it was worth every penny
to me for those long runs up the Ches. Bay.

Art
 
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