V700 windlass retrieve issue

T

tparrent

New member
I just perused the forum on V700 issues. Guess I should have done that before I laid out series boat bucks to have the windlass installed last summer :sad

I figured I would just sit at the helm and push a button to anchor and retrieve. As I almost exclusively singlehand, that seemed better than squeezing myself through the hatch all the time.

Well, so far at least, I find that I spend MORE time going in and out of the hatch with the windlass than I did before! :crook

When I first started using the windlass, I had to go to the bow every foot of rode to manually work the line through the gypsy. After awhile that became a little better as I guess the rope got softer. The anchor also did not self deploy very well even though I had the roller and anchor replaced with models that SHOULD have worked.

Of course, in the ads for the V700 Lewmar trumpets the ability of the windlass to hold the anchor underway and at anchor so no need to secure it in either case. In the manual they tell you to secure it underway and at anchor :evil:

So now I am going in and out of the hatch to release the anchor, secure it while anchored, unsecure it before retrieving and again secure it before getting underway again. That is SO MUCH EASIER than just going through the hatch to do it all by hand, right? What a waste.

Now that I understand that I have to go back and forth all the time, I have narrowed the list of poor operating characteristics to one (easy when you just accept all the other limitations as "normal"). When I retrieve the Lewmar anchor using a Lewmar supplied rope and chain rode that was splice by Lewmar to work specifically with the Lewmar windlass that I bought from (any guesses?) LEWMAR, the dang splice won't go through the gypsy!

Obviously, I have done as much as possible to match the rode to the windlass (see above) and the splice seems neat enough but it just won't go through without manual intervention. So now, in addition to all those other issues, I get to go forward and get my fingers close to a dang finger chewing machine at the worst time - when the anchor is barely on the bottom or dangling in the water! That means I have to shut off the breaker so that I don't risk amputation, wrestle it all through, turn the breaker back on and hope that the windlass will retrieve the last of the chain.

Now this wasn't supposed to be a rant post :) but there you have it.

Obviously, I use my stern deployed folding grapnel lunch anchor almost all the time now :(

I would sure appreciate any suggestions from experienced hands here.

Thanks

(I really wish I had saved the boat bux so that I could have replaced my Garmin but that's a whole 'nother rant)
 
I got on such a roll that I forgot to ask another question :)

The rather sparse operating instructions in the manual refer to the "failsafe pawl" in only two places that I can see.

Under "Hauling in" it says "The failsafe pawl does not need to be disengaged during retrieval as it will act as a ratchet."

Later: "REMEMBER - The failsafe pawl DOES need to be disengaged from the gypsy before the anchor can be let go again."

Ok, so how about some instruction as to when and, importantly, how and perhaps even why to use the failsafe pawl?

I looked online at the Lewmar site but only found a copy of the manual.

I'll send them a note as well but I'm betting I'll get better real world experience here :)

Thanks again
 
Hi Tom,

We have a Pro Series Lewmar, so this may not apply to your model: we recently had a situation where the rode kept jumping out while retrieving. Tightening the gypsy with the Lewmar supplied wrench took care of the problem.

When overnighting, we cleat off the anchor line so there isn't pressure on the windlass. If just stopping for lunch, I don't always do that, especially if conditions are reasonably calm. No issue with launching or retrieving without going to the bow (other than cleating, uncleating). Joan frequently goes to the bow when anchoring, but more as a look-out since I run the windlass from the helm. When either of us goes forward, we walk the coaming while using the handrails... faster and easier than going through the hatch (removing the cover, the screen, and then standing on the berth to climb out).

For full disclosure, Joan went out the hatch for the first time this month during the lighted boat parade... we had lights laying on the coaming; when we docked at the restaurant where the awards were handed out, she went to the bow for docking. Not meaning to get off topic here, just saying that, for us, it is much easier to go to the bow by not going through the hatch.

Hope you are able to find the solution to keeping the rode where it belongs. Our windlass is an integral part of our boat equipment.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
Does the anchor come lose when you are underway? neither do mine 90%of the time. thats why i dont go forward to secure it. the windlass does a great job of holding the anchor in place while under way. that said I do secure it while on the trailer. on the rare occasions that the anchor does start to move I just give a quick hit to the windlass and it tightens right up.

on another note , and we have cover this before, I do not think a rear anchor is a good idea and one day it will bite you in the ass. Just my opinion.
 
tparrent

Journey On came with a 600 series anchor windlass, which lasted 5 years. Last summer it died and I replace it with a V700. Here is a discussion of that episode: 2011 Boat Repair. Scroll down past the trailer repair, Honda repair and you'll find my experience regarding the Lewmar V700.

Note that the V700 was redesigned and now is built in Thailand, which is presently flooded. They screwed up the gypsy so that it doesn't grip the rope correctly, not tight enough. That's probably the problem with the splice. For comparison, I used these sites for splicing the chain to the anchor: for normal 3 strand line 3 Strand Splice, or if you got plaited line 6 plait. You can see if Lewmar uses a different technique. Note that Lewmar specifies a soft or plaited line.

I would guess that the splice is too large in girth to pass easily through the gypsy and requires a stronger pull than the gypsy will allow. One can try to hammer and pull on the line to make it slimmer, but that would require a re-splice. And I don't like doing chain to rope splices.

Going forward to tie off the anchor when it's set is normal, and tying off the anchor when you're going towing down the road is a good safety factor. I usually don't tie off the anchor when we're underway on the boat and haven't had any incidents yet. Our anchors have always launched without going forward, though Judy opens the forward window and has the boat hook ready to encourage the anchor to leave the boat. Sorry about the extra work, but nothing's perfect.

Can't say that I'm real happy with the change from the V600 to the V700. I plan to see if I can change the gypsy from the 600 to the 700.

Boris
 
Thanks for your replies

Jim - I use the hatch for two reasons. 1. I'm not the most nimble cat and 2. As a singlehander, the consequence of falling overboard is much worse than for a two person crew.

You did raise an interesting point. The rode jumping out of the gypsy has been the least of my worries as everything is so tight. I wonder if it is TOO tight. I will loosen it up today (good excuse to go to the boat!) and give it a try.

Tom - I always secure the anchor when trailering but I have gotten reasonably lazy about it on the local lake. I doubt there's ever been even one foot waves on the lake so, aside from hitting wakes, there's probably little to worry about. I keep an eye on the anchor at all times (an anchor came loose once on a sailboat I was crewing with near disastrous results) and could either stop or snub it up in a flash.

I also understand your concern about anchoring from the stern and I wouldn't do it in most conditions. However, when I go out locally I anchor in coves that have nearly 360 degree protection so the risk of being swamped is very low AND shore is usually less than 20 yards away. I want to get the routine with the bow anchor down perfectly so that I am not tempted to drop the stern anchor in less prudent conditions when I am out voyaging.
 
Boris, you've given me another good idea. Having the front window open with book hook at hand may handle many of the issues. I hadn't thought of that.

Thanks!
 
Although the V 700 has less windlass above deck and looks "smoother"--my experience is that they do not work as well as the Horizontal series. But that is what you have. I would go with the plaited line--and do your own splice. I favor the back splice--Joe, the wind down the chain strand splice.

Agree that the windlass is not designed to take the loads of anchoring. It may work for awhile--but will eventually damage the gears and seals--and this goes on up to the windlasses which handle many thousands of pounds.
 
A funny thing happened on the way to testing out various ideas - the dang windlass worked fine! The only issue today was that the anchor did not self launch as it does sometimes. Not sure I can do anything about that.

I noticed that the link had some kinks in it. I think it needs more use. Tough job but I volunteer.

The retrieve went very smoothly and the splice zipped right on through. The only difference may have been that I was very careful to keep the boat positioned such that the rode hung straight down and had some slack in it. Inching up in near idle forward seemed to help overall.

Maybe it was just one of those good days. Upon returning to the marina with a strong crosswind blowing in to the slip, I had no problem docking. That's rare!

Thanks again for the suggestions.
 
If you use plaited line, that seems to fit the gypsy better after it's been soaked in water. I suppose it's the sizing they use during braiding.

If you don't, ignore the above.

Boris
 
I was getting ready to purchase this same windlass, after seeing the post am rethinking. I noticed the Maxwell RC 6 vertical, is this any more reliable than the Lewmar? If not I will be going with the Lewmar horizontal pro model.
 
I put a V700 on our C-Dory and found it to be somewhat tempermental on the retrieve kinking and jamming. I was using 3 strand. On our current boat we have a Maxwell RC-8 with 3 strand and it works extremely well with none of the tempermentalness that we saw with the V700. We have used it a lot in the past year so believe that if there were going to be issues, they would have shown up already. On that basis, I think that the RC-6 would probably perform similarly.
 
I have a V700 Lewmar around two years now. It worked well with new rope and my own rope/ chain splice, though I may want to try the splice This Away mentioned to see if it works better with this windless. I think the first 20' or so of line is quite soft now.

I used New England rope purchased through West Marine. Recently experiencing a lot of kinking and jamming so I disconnected the anchor and towed the rode behind the boat to try and relieve twisting. It seemed most twisting was in the first 50' feet of line and and the remaining 200' or so was just fine. I have 20-22' chain with approx. 250' of rode total. I usually anchor in 20' or less so using more than 120' is unusual for me. The untwisting by towing did not buy me many retrievals and the rope is back to kinking.

I am wondering if decreasing the amount of rode in the anchor locker would be a reasonable trade off for more dependable line retrieval, or will the problem remain unchanged? I am wondering if others have shortened up and had good results? Would like some feed back before I start cutting the cord.

tparrent mentioned earlier that there were problems with self launching of the anchor. This has probably long been solved given the age of this thread but thought i would mention it as this solution worked for me, for my set up, though maybe it is common practice? I won a simpson lowrance KBR22 in a drawing at the c-dory factory years ago, donated by Les Lampman (Thanks Les I love this model). It just didn't quite want to launch the 10lb."delta" anchor I bought. I went to a local plastics supplier and purchased a bit larger diameter similar type dowel for the front roller and shaped a modest groove in it to guide the rope. I am guessing 1/4 to 3/8 larger diameter dowel overall. I used a friends drill press to drill the bolt hole centered. I think we then put a bolt in the drill press chuck with the roller fastened to the bolt. While the roller is going around in the drill press a dowel with sand paper wrapped around itself forms the groove for the roller as you press against it. I didn't make much of a groove because I did not want to lose the additional diameter of the roller I was adding. This small shift forward caused smooth launching every time from that day forward.
 
I'm not sure yonu would gain much. The original twist on the line is the same end to end. The kinking comes from the anchoring, swinging, retrieving process, and would I think, return on the shorter rode. Of course you could keep cutting off line until you only have chain... that might limit your anchoring options to either dry land or one foot though:lol: I have the same windlass and have the same problem. After a number of anchorings I pull the line out to the length used, 50-75 feet, and hose it off with fresh water. Once or twice a year I pull all the line out and soak it in a bucket of water with a little water softener, that seems to keep it supple.
 
Recently purchased a 2005 22 with a windlass. There are few dings at the bow where the tip of the anchor sits on the roller. Was wondering what folks use to protect the hull just below the rub rail. There are scuff plates etc online, but not sure if they would work since the hull is angled in this area.

Thanks,

Dan McPartlin
Chesterfield VA
 
C-cakes,
maybe cutting out 20', beginning section after the chain is a good idea? Since this summer and fall use was fresh water, I don't think salt is an issue. When anchored I usually don't swing enough to twist. At night using stern anchor to prevent swing or stern line to shore. Primarily just the up and down of the windlass action.

Dan,
I have never chipped the bow on retrieval of the anchor with my windlass
equipment, so far. Well, there was one exception. Prior to the windless I had an EZ-pull, a cam device where a buoy slides up the anchor line towing your anchor to the surface. I had 300' of line in a basket on my bow and a danforth type anchor all nice and tidy. I forgot to put non skid material on the bottom of the basket, ie. like what is used for the table to keep dishes from sliding. I was going down a heavily wooded curvy road from where I live in the Tualatin Mountains and inadvertently dropped anchor. I heard a little unfamiliar noise, apparently beyond the frequency of my mid range hearing loss, and saw the the line paying out from the passenger mirror. I got the truck stopped shortly before all 300' was out. I was very close to proving the anchor was set, "backing down on it" so to speak. I have a small chip on the bow keel and not another thing was harmed. I was able to continue my trip of the day. Very, very lucky for me and if I had made it to the highway maybe others too.

Yes, you read about it in Readers Digest.
 
I was teasing about cutting off line. Our v700 works way better than getting out on the bow and hauling in 100+ft of line and chain. Having said that it is not unusual for me to have to retrieve/let out, retrieve/let out a foot or so to get a section of line past the gypsy. Usually that happens when the line piles up in the anchor "locker" at the front of the vee berth or there is a twist. My rode is several years old and the rope/chain splice is one I did last year. I only go out on the bow to cleat the line after anchoring so that the windlass doesn't have the whole strain. Were I to buy a new windlass I think I'd get the horizontal version. Occasionally the anchor does not self deploy, in that case I just hit the up switch for a very short time and then the down switch. The anchor has always deployed then. Ymmv.
 
shellndanm":347gan48 said:
Recently purchased a 2005 22 with a windlass. There are few dings at the bow where the tip of the anchor sits on the roller. Was wondering what folks use to protect the hull just below the rub rail. There are scuff plates etc online, but not sure if they would work since the hull is angled in this area.

Thanks,

Dan McPartlin
Chesterfield VA
Click to expand...

The Venture 26 in Mobile has a SS plate below the bow roller on the hull to protect it from the Delta 14# anchor. Despite this, there were a few scratches on the gel coat to the side of the SS plate.

A longer bow roller support bracket helps--but it can get scratched. Figure at some time you may have to do some touch up.

As to the twist. In some rodes I have had problems--others not. The stiffer the rope, I feel the more likely to have the twists as a problem. I tend to power forward, and used the windlass to pull the line in, but not under load. This seems to result in less twisting. Also as I bring the anchor up--once it is clear of the bottom, I let it swing, and any twists work out. The problem in water which is shallower than the length of the chain, the chain links will be on the chain wheel, and not allow the rope to untwist. We usually have 50 feet of chain--so in most cases we are on the chain part of the rode when we hoist the anchor aboard. Brait or braided line seems to be much less of a problem since there is no twisted lay to the line. I don't believe that taking some line off will help resolve the issue.
 
Thanks everyone for your input-good stuff. I've had it with excessive kinking. Recently not just a hassle for me but also a potential safety issue. Anchored at night and the wind came up requiring a move to the plan B anchorage. I remember the uncertain feeling of whether it would jam. Before committing to retrieving the line we spread out the piled line in the locker to help things. But because of kinking during earlier sets of the day I wasn't sure it would work. Fortunately it did that time. Glad I decided to move when I did because the wind cont. to increase.

Bob can you be specific as to the type of line you are using. I know you said it is braided line, or plait line, right. What brand do you like?

Just got off the phone talking with tech. support (Josh ext.202, I-800-946-3527) at Lewmar. Some things he covered : Have a functioning swivel where the chain connects to the anchor, not a shackle that does not swivel. Use some fabric softener a couple times a year soaking line in a tub of water. Let the anchor hang as Bob described. He used the analogy of a phone cord with twists or caught on itself and letting the receiver hang. I think he thought the hanging method was more effective (and certainly easier) than taking off the anchor and towing the line as I described earlier. He said if storing too much line in relation to the "fall" distance causes increased coiling of the line in the locker which can lead to kinking. He said if locker allows, try pushing the terminal line that is not usually used forward, away from the the remaining line so it creates a little better space/fall for the beginning portion of line that is most frequently used. One way to check if shorter rode will decrease kinking without cutting your line, is to put the terminal portion on the fore deck and experiment if it makes a difference. He said the knot recommended for this windless is a tapered back splice and there are nuances for this problem (passing through the windlass) as well. He said do not weave it too tight as this will increase the diameter too much. He said anchor line and this knot tends to swell with time so they recommend changing it every 2-3 yrs. When the strands are hot knifed to melt the ends, you do not want them too big. He mentioned leaving line in the locker for months at a time without use can create unwanted memory. They recommend medium lay three strand line. If you cannot solve your problem with the above recommendations he would try the plait line as Bob suggested.

He said it is not usually one glaring thing that creates kinking problems but rather several smaller things. I did alot of anchoring this spring and sometimes in heavy current. I never have given it a thought to let the anchor hang as described above. Looking forward to trying this.

Tom
 
I went with Yale Brait (8-plait, single-braided line) for my main anchor rode on the 22. I mainly chose it because it takes less space in the locker than 3-strand. Now that I think about it, that might add a bit of "fall" distance too.

I don't have a windlass yet, but I have noticed - when flaking both the Brait and the 3-strand on my secondary anchor - that the Brait lies down very nicely without a tendency to kink or hockle. It has a "neutral" feeling.

I don't really like swivels, so I'm hoping the Brait will allow me to continue without one (horizontal windlass is on my upgrade list). Guess I'll wait and see.

Anyway, from the amount I've used it so far (only around 30 times), I would think you might be pleased with the Brait (or similar). It does seem like it might "pick" if dragged over splintery docks, but then that's more likely with dock lines.
 
Back
Top