Turning the corner?

thataway":knt9032g said:
...For example, I had seen the listing on 58 Hatteras in Seattle for 250 K--but there is one in San Diego for $159K and I suspect you can buy it for less....There is another in the Seattle area for $199K, and similar ones which have sold recently sold for $79K and $110K.

Hmm....you also mentioned this Hatteras "itch" in a thread on THT - you must really be thinking about it! The 58 I was referring to isn't listed - it's a little different in that it's essentially a 53' with a 5' cockpit rather than the YF layout. Still, your point about the prices is quite valid. There was even a 58 YF repo that went for $58K locally, but it was a refurb project halted after all the equipment was removed and I wouldn't have take it for free. The biggest expense with these '70s Hatteras's is the 32vdc systems. Parts are difficult to come by and enormously expensive.

BTW, have you seen the 58 LRC that Fraser has listed for $325K? Now there is a legitimate trawler! :wink:

Even the billionaires are cutting back - here's Paul Allen's smaller yacht:
http://www.fraseryachts.com/Sale/sale_gallery.aspx?YachtID=Y5457_FL
 
As a working country doc I see and talk to folks from all walks of life... Michigan is in the dumpster and I do not see any light at the end of the tunnel, at least in my expected lifetime, for the young workers... The good factory jobs for high school graduates are either going or gone overseas... When the factory goes the local businesses that fed off those factory wages blow away like dandelion puffs in the summer wind...

Folks like the majority of us on this forum, tend to be a bit older, have business or professional skills and holdings, and some money in the bank... We tend to see the outlook as being lots brighter than that of a 20 year old with a part time job at the burger joint, or no job at all...

Yes, you can buy a fuel thirsty, high maintenance boat for pennies on the dollar it sold for 5 years ago - you can, but I wouldn't... The fuel and the repair parts are going to eat your checkbook...

I am glad that I have a low maintenance, fuel efficient boat for my retirement... One that I can haul on a trailer and not pay marina fees to store... Yup, it does look brighter out my window this morning :)
 
I agree with Denny-O. We live in Ohio and I'm retiring in March. We've done the big boats and loved them but the cost would be more difficult to bear in retirement. So we bought our 25 cruiser and plan to do many of the same things we did with the big boats. And it is much lower cost! And it can go places our big boats couldn't because of the shallower draft.

As to a recovery, for professional and management friends who were impacted by the downturn, several are now finding positions, most at same as or higher compensation. But it's still slow. For the blue collar factory work, that's just gone.

Something I've seen in my profession (I/T) and I've done myself is outsourcing much of the technical work off shore (India, Latin America, etc.). I've also seen Finance, Engineering, and development worked sent offshore.

This to me is a great security threat for our country. We lose the capability to manufacture, we lose the capability to design, and we lose the opportunities for our people to work not just in the factory but in the professions.

In business, as long as it's less costly to do that we will. So what will turn that around?

Just my pessimistic thought for the day.
 
Then maybe I need to research more on taking my retirement out of the country?


Earlier I was asking about a possible boat bubble.
I don't get off the farm much so I'm always surprised at prices.
I can still get a decent pair of jeans for $20 yet a three-way switch just cost me over $5.00.

$50,000-$100,000 for a 22' boat?

I really hate crunching numbers when there're so few left to crunch.

Done whining, thanks for listening.
 
SouthLake":2k72uyhh said:
As to a recovery, for professional and management friends who were impacted by the downturn, several are now finding positions, most at same as or higher compensation. But it's still slow. For the blue collar factory work, that's just gone.

Something I've seen in my profession (I/T) and I've done myself is outsourcing much of the technical work off shore (India, Latin America, etc.). I've also seen Finance, Engineering, and development worked sent offshore.

This to me is a great security threat for our country. We lose the capability to manufacture, we lose the capability to design, and we lose the opportunities for our people to work not just in the factory but in the professions.

In business, as long as it's less costly to do that we will. So what will turn that around?

What would turn that around would be to say "In business, even though outsourcing is more costly, we won't". I just can't understand why, with all the bitching and moaning, and all the finger pointing, we can't just all get together and make small sacrifices like buying American products and hiring American workers. For instance, I can not understand why any American would buy a vehicle that came here on a ship. Sure, we will pay a little bit more for jeans made in America, but it's something positive we can do and it will help. Apparently I can't make those politicians change the trade policies, but I can do what I can do. Ah, don't get me started......
 
dotnmarty":2zhcynau said:
<stuff clipped>For instance, I can not understand why any American would buy a vehicle that came here on a ship. <more clipped>
Ah Marty, here's one on which we two liberals disagree. In the past 15 years, I've bought an Isuzu, two Toyotas and a VW Jetta. The reasons for my choices weren't driven by price - they were driven by quality (and in the case of the diesel Jetta, incredible fuel economy). The American auto industry took a huge hit because they weren't making what many Americans want - high quality, fuel efficient vehicles. IMHO, there are several issues relating to keeping our standard of living up:
1) We've gotten soft. We don't value education as highly as we used to nor as highly as other countries. We also don't work as hard as we used to nor as hard as individuals in some other countries. Rather than focusing on buying American, we should rather focusing on out competing the hell out of other countries. We need to commit to having the best and brightest students AND teachers and we need to pay our teachers appropriately. We also need to lose the idea that we, as Americans, are some how entitled to a better lifestyle than others. If we want it, we have to work for it.
2) We've shifted too far to a "knowledge based" economy. We don't manufacture near as much as we used to and we have this idea that we can supplant the making of stuff with the creation of ideas. Now that the internet makes the rapid and nearly free exchange of ideas possible, we can't count a knowledge based economy to fill in the loss of manufacturing jobs. As others above have pointed out, knowledge based jobs can also be shifted to other countries and moreover, often at very low cost (it's essentially free to move ideas, software, digital designs etc around the world).
3) Other societies do not necessarily value humanity as we do. Hence, workers in other countries don't have the power that workers in this country have and it's easier for companies to take advantage of them. That used to be a much bigger problem in this country prior to the strong labor movements in the early 1900's. IMHO, the best solution to this problem is to continue to encourage/promote democracy to the extent we can.
4) Our way of living probably will and should change. Americans make up <5% of the world's population but use about 25% of the energy. That can't last forever. We can't really expect the rest of the world to live at a wildly lower standard of living than we do forever. That will change. Obviously, the best way for it to change would be for everyone's standard of living to go up but that will require some fundamental shifts - in particular in energy usage. I think we can live quite nicely on significantly lower energy per capita than we presently do but we definitely need to rethink how we transport people and goods if we are to do that.

Just my 2 (or 4) cents worth.
 
I agree with you about everything but the buy American stuff. Without getting into the quality disparity argument, which was true in the past much more than now, I do think it is both real and symbolic to recognize that, if we can pull together in this one obvious and tangible way, hopefully we can in other needed ways also. If we can't, well.....
 
$50,000-$100,000 for a 22' boat?


I think the key thing to remember is that with that $50k 22' boat - you can go and do as much or more than with a "bigger" boat.

Believe me, I know - we had a 32' Sundowner Tug (better than a 32' Nordic Tug that is valued in the $300k range). We sold that boat and bought the 22' CD willing to deal with the "smallness", "not going to work as well", "might be rough on the Great Lakes", etc. Well, what a nice surprise when we didn't have to settle with the CD22 - in fact, outside of a few items, we enjoy the 22CD much more than the bigger boat.

Never say never - but I don't have any plans on purchasing a non-trailerable boat in the future.

$50k for a boat that you can use like a $300k boat is well worth it.
 
dotnmarty":39yltm23 said:
I agree with you about everything but the buy American stuff.

First of all, I have to point out that the line is blurred - look at all the "foreign" car assembly plants in Tennessee and Georgia. I've seen breakdowns that show a surprising percentage of "Made in USA" in foreign versus domestic cars.

Second, if the citizens of this country collectively felt the way you did, then that Air Force tanker contract wouldn't be going to EADS instead of Boeing. Until our collective will changes, I would expect more of the same.

But...this is a friendly boating forum, so after this I think I'll just keep my opinions to myself. :|
 
BRAZO":1krkucnk said:
[
I think the key thing to remember is that with that $50k 22' boat - you can go and do as much or more than with a "bigger" boat.
.


Yes Bob and thank goodness for that because I see everything really goes to hell over 22'.
 
Even professional medical jobs are at risk. One of the local hospitals has divested itself or the local cardiology/thoracic surgery group, and is hiring their own physicians from outside the area. So far every one is foreign trained. I assume that these physicians will work for less money than the local group (which is taking its business to other hospitals). Such is the competition. But the reality is that at least in the medical profession we are not producing enough physicians.

Now the question I have been puzzling over is that the "next generation" will not have as good a quality of life as ours.

Of course in NW Florida and SE Alabama the EADs contract is in favor, since it would bring jobs to this area, and Boeing apparently to Kansas. I don't know how many in the US/vs Europe however for EADS.
 
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