takes a licking and keeps on cruising
- Thread starter starcrafttom
- Start date
I feel for the ferry captain. Dealing with the number of ___xx@* boaters that either don't have a clue, or like to play "chicken". I've been in Upright Channel a number of times with 3 or more boats heading north; one on each side of the channel and one in the center. Here comes a ferry. For small boats heading south you can "dodge-em" but what is the Ferry to do? When he pulls out of Lopez Island and heads to Friday Harbor he has 3 boats facing him so he has to "force" his way thru. Pick one and someone will give. Wasp passage is another place where they must "force" their way thru. It's a real judgement call as to when a boat can and will get out of his way. In my sailboat days I was sailing north in Upright against the tide and only making about 2 knots SOG. Here comes a ferry & I could not get out of his way. So, fire up the iron jenny and move it. Perhaps in this case he might have stopped earlier, but if every time a ferry has a boat in the way and avoided it the ferry s would be an hour late every run.
Chuck
Chuck
The post 9-11 Coast Guard Regulation for small boats versus ferries. This is from the WA ST DOT/Ferry
n Feb. 8, 2003 the Coast Guard Captain of the Port of Puget Sound established a temporary moving security zone of 500 yards surrounding passenger vessels within the waters of Puget Sound and adjacent waters. All operating Washington State Ferries fit the definition of a passenger vessel, which is any vessel over 100 feet in length (33 meters) carrying passengers for hire. All vessels within 500 yards of a passenger vessel are required to operate at the minimum speed necessary to maintain a safe course, and shall proceed as directed by the Official Patrol or passenger vessel Master. No vessel is allowed within 100 yards of a passenger vessel, unless authorized by the Official Patrol or passenger vessel Master. Vessels requesting to pass within 100 yards of a passenger vessel shall contact the Official Patrol or passenger vessel Master on VHF-FM channel 16 or 13.
Note - the 100 yard rule at the end may be impossible near docks, narrow passages, and in other restricted spaces. But most of us observe the spirit of the rule: go slow if closer than 100 yards, don't aim your bow at the ferry, generally be moving away from the ferry, or whatever seems sensible.
ps - generally boaters understand that captains of ferries do not want to be bothered being on the radio with little boats. Just be sensible and keep out of the way.
n Feb. 8, 2003 the Coast Guard Captain of the Port of Puget Sound established a temporary moving security zone of 500 yards surrounding passenger vessels within the waters of Puget Sound and adjacent waters. All operating Washington State Ferries fit the definition of a passenger vessel, which is any vessel over 100 feet in length (33 meters) carrying passengers for hire. All vessels within 500 yards of a passenger vessel are required to operate at the minimum speed necessary to maintain a safe course, and shall proceed as directed by the Official Patrol or passenger vessel Master. No vessel is allowed within 100 yards of a passenger vessel, unless authorized by the Official Patrol or passenger vessel Master. Vessels requesting to pass within 100 yards of a passenger vessel shall contact the Official Patrol or passenger vessel Master on VHF-FM channel 16 or 13.
Note - the 100 yard rule at the end may be impossible near docks, narrow passages, and in other restricted spaces. But most of us observe the spirit of the rule: go slow if closer than 100 yards, don't aim your bow at the ferry, generally be moving away from the ferry, or whatever seems sensible.
ps - generally boaters understand that captains of ferries do not want to be bothered being on the radio with little boats. Just be sensible and keep out of the way.
RogerJuntunen
New member
When all three lights I see ahead, I turn to starboard and show my red-- green to green, red to red, perfect safety, go ahead. This was told to me by a guy named Bob Mencel on the riverboat Bizet on the Seine river! Roger Juntunen
This isn't really that complicated a situation...a very irresponsible (moronic?) skipper essentially asleep at the switch. He could have just as easily run over a kayak or plowed into a floating log. Sadly I've seen worse than this over the years. My wife calls me "Mr. anal" due to my boating maintenance and safety practices, but at least she doesn't need to worry about us hitting a ferry.
It looked to me like the ferry 5 whistle was completed long before it went into reverse power. That reversing thrust wake would have washed Nappy off the bow before contact was made if the ferry was not moving, and that reverse thrust wake doesn't show until impact and continues after.
Mr stupid is lucky to be alive and driving his buat away. I shure hope he was telling the ferry captain thank you when he stepped out of that bridge door.
Would be interesting to see what damage was done to Nappy.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Mr stupid is lucky to be alive and driving his buat away. I shure hope he was telling the ferry captain thank you when he stepped out of that bridge door.
Would be interesting to see what damage was done to Nappy.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Larry Patrick
New member
Lucky he just got pushed away with no major damage.
hardee":vygovtau said:
Harvey, the prop wash you see there is from the "forward" engine--being put into "forward"--as a last ditch, when the stern engine (pushing the boat at that point) did not slow the boat adequately.
Since the ferrys have two complete sets of controls and engines, they are run going "both ways". (switching bow ands stern at each end of the run. )
I don't know if the opposite engine can be operated from the other pilot house or not. When the ferry leaves the dock, the captain has control and leaves the dock from the aft pilot house. When clear, command is transferred to the forward pilothouse--where the first mate and quarter master are stationed. After clear from the dock, The captain goes to the forward pilot house. Again, I don't know if one of the crew had to run to the aft pilot house to start the "foreword engine"--
I believe that many of these, if not all, are "air start"--that can mean two things--one is an air driven starter motor--or it can be that several cylinders are turned over by compressed air, until the remainder begin to fire by compression. I have seen large engines both ways. I understand that this ferry has two 16 CYL, 3000 HP EDM 2 stroke diesels (Like the GM they have Roots blower or a turbocharger for cylinder scavenging), One of the criticisms of this class of ferrys is that they are less fuel efficient, and do not get up to rated speed. I have found the speed rated at 12 to 16 knots for this ferry--my guess, is that it is toward the lower limits, because of the fuel use.
Captain Nimrod was down below taking a crap at the time of impact. Doesn't seem to grasp the situation: seems to be boasting about the robustness of his boat compared to others considering the lack of damage sustained. No brain, no headache. Please keep the mighty "Nap Tyme" out of my cruising grounds in the San Juans! :xlol
colbysmith
Active member
Yeah, I kind of got the same feeling reading that article. (The part about promoting his boat over Bayliners....)...
Given the captain's name from the article above, I googled and found another comment he posted over on Three Sheets Northwest blog about the incident:
"You don’t know what happened unless you were there. I am the one that got hit. I didn’t see him. That was my mistake. I have been in auto accidents but that is the hardest I have ever been hit. Everything on this boat ended up on the floor. Every cabinet, closet, cupboard, light fixture, furniture, tv, directv box, internet modem, electronic items, i.e. radar, gps, radio, stereo, tools, tool boxes, and everything else that was above floor level. It will cost me but I am alive and no diesel was spilled. That was the main concern of the USCG."
http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2016/12/h ... rry-video/
-Mike
"You don’t know what happened unless you were there. I am the one that got hit. I didn’t see him. That was my mistake. I have been in auto accidents but that is the hardest I have ever been hit. Everything on this boat ended up on the floor. Every cabinet, closet, cupboard, light fixture, furniture, tv, directv box, internet modem, electronic items, i.e. radar, gps, radio, stereo, tools, tool boxes, and everything else that was above floor level. It will cost me but I am alive and no diesel was spilled. That was the main concern of the USCG."
http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2016/12/h ... rry-video/
-Mike
I'm just coming back to this thread and this whole thing is just crazy to me.
The discussion of give-way, stand on, etc. is interesting academically. Per these guidelines the ferry should take evasive action, and it did. The ferry could be considered constrained in its ability to maneuver which would then make it the stand-on vessel.
But it doesn't matter. Clearly there was a boat not maintaining a lookout. NAp Tyme's ability, compared to the ferry, to alter course and speed could have prevented this collision up to a few seconds before impact, but no action was taken.
The ferry clearly did attempt to avoid the collision but a boat that size, loaded, takes a long time to slow down and stop.
An excellent point that was brought up is the exclusion zone around ferries. We have them in AK, not sure about WA, but sounds like it. So regardless of stand-on or give-way status, Nap Tyme should never have gotten that close. I'd love to know how this pans out in terms of citations. Unfortunately the captain of the Ferry, who did far more to avoid the collision than NapTyme did, will be impacted more than Nap Tyme, who will probably pay a fine and be back on the water.
It''s a great reminder that anyone can get on the water and go without very much knowledge or training, if any. The water is full of clowns and those of us who wish to continue to ply the waters should be ready for other skippers to do just about anything.
The discussion of give-way, stand on, etc. is interesting academically. Per these guidelines the ferry should take evasive action, and it did. The ferry could be considered constrained in its ability to maneuver which would then make it the stand-on vessel.
But it doesn't matter. Clearly there was a boat not maintaining a lookout. NAp Tyme's ability, compared to the ferry, to alter course and speed could have prevented this collision up to a few seconds before impact, but no action was taken.
The ferry clearly did attempt to avoid the collision but a boat that size, loaded, takes a long time to slow down and stop.
An excellent point that was brought up is the exclusion zone around ferries. We have them in AK, not sure about WA, but sounds like it. So regardless of stand-on or give-way status, Nap Tyme should never have gotten that close. I'd love to know how this pans out in terms of citations. Unfortunately the captain of the Ferry, who did far more to avoid the collision than NapTyme did, will be impacted more than Nap Tyme, who will probably pay a fine and be back on the water.
It''s a great reminder that anyone can get on the water and go without very much knowledge or training, if any. The water is full of clowns and those of us who wish to continue to ply the waters should be ready for other skippers to do just about anything.
Ref security zones in Washington Puget sound see:
33 CFR 165.1317 - Security and Safety Zone; Large Passenger Vessel Protection, Puget Sound and adjacent waters, Washington.
In fact if you start investigating, you will find that almost all major ports have this security zone: 33 CFR 165.835 - Security Zone; Port of Mobile, Mobile Ship Channel, Mobile, AL.
But it gets a bit crazy sometimes, and makes me wonder what our government is really up to: On Govreg.com you find 165.11731 - Security Zone: Escorted Vessels, Los Angeles-Long Beach, CA, Captain of the Port Zone.
(a) Location. The Regulated Navigation Area (RNA) includes all navigable waters of the Humboldt Bay Bar Channel and the Humboldt Bay Entrance Channel, Humboldt Bay, California. and the regulation goes on to be specific to Humbolt bay!
The offshoot of all of this, is that all of Title 33
Chapter IPart 165Subpart F - Specific Regulated Navigation Areas and Limited Access Areas: F [§ 165.T01-0002 - § 165.1712] is a listing off almost every port in the united states waters which have almost identical rules: So wherever you are, you need to heed the rules-definition of passenger vessel may vary, but the rule is very insistent:
500 yard zone--idle speed--slowest navigable speed. " No vessel or person is allowed within 100 yards of a large passenger vessel that is underway or at anchor, unless authorized by the on-scene official patrol or large passenger vessel master. No vessel or person is allowed within 25 yards of a large passenger vessel that is moored." exceptions are commercial fishing vessels engaged in fishing, and with permission of master of the passenger vessel, or captain of port/Coast Guard.
33 CFR 165.1317 - Security and Safety Zone; Large Passenger Vessel Protection, Puget Sound and adjacent waters, Washington.
In fact if you start investigating, you will find that almost all major ports have this security zone: 33 CFR 165.835 - Security Zone; Port of Mobile, Mobile Ship Channel, Mobile, AL.
But it gets a bit crazy sometimes, and makes me wonder what our government is really up to: On Govreg.com you find 165.11731 - Security Zone: Escorted Vessels, Los Angeles-Long Beach, CA, Captain of the Port Zone.
(a) Location. The Regulated Navigation Area (RNA) includes all navigable waters of the Humboldt Bay Bar Channel and the Humboldt Bay Entrance Channel, Humboldt Bay, California. and the regulation goes on to be specific to Humbolt bay!
The offshoot of all of this, is that all of Title 33
Chapter IPart 165Subpart F - Specific Regulated Navigation Areas and Limited Access Areas: F [§ 165.T01-0002 - § 165.1712] is a listing off almost every port in the united states waters which have almost identical rules: So wherever you are, you need to heed the rules-definition of passenger vessel may vary, but the rule is very insistent:
500 yard zone--idle speed--slowest navigable speed. " No vessel or person is allowed within 100 yards of a large passenger vessel that is underway or at anchor, unless authorized by the on-scene official patrol or large passenger vessel master. No vessel or person is allowed within 25 yards of a large passenger vessel that is moored." exceptions are commercial fishing vessels engaged in fishing, and with permission of master of the passenger vessel, or captain of port/Coast Guard.
Marco Flamingo
Active member
I was on a ferry at about the same time on Sunday, but I was coming from Bremerton in to Seattle. There was a Seahawks game that day and there is always high security on board (even more on the ferry after a game). We also had two CG boats like the one shown in an earlier post escort us from center channel in to Coleman dock. Both boats had the gun mounts (manned) on the bow. Many on board thought this was some kind of show of patriotism or something. It got the Woo Woo Woo U-S-A crowd chanting and taking pictures.
I'm wondering what would have happened if the rammed ferry would have had a CG escort. Regardless of the stand off rules for the ferries, what are the CG rules when a small private vessel is going to ram a ferry? I doubt that Nap Tyme's hull would have stood up as well against .50 caliber machine gun fire.
Another tragedy averted.
Mark
I'm wondering what would have happened if the rammed ferry would have had a CG escort. Regardless of the stand off rules for the ferries, what are the CG rules when a small private vessel is going to ram a ferry? I doubt that Nap Tyme's hull would have stood up as well against .50 caliber machine gun fire.
Another tragedy averted.
Mark
Quote from skipper, embellished for your reading pleasure:
"You don’t know what happened unless you were there. (and I should know because I wasn't completely there) I am the one that got hit (though some would say I did the "hitting") I didn’t see him (I was toileting while single-handing under power in a major navigation channel; who could have predicted trouble?) That was my mistake. I have been in auto accidents (I drive cars too) but that is the hardest I have ever been hit(Er..hit something) Everything on this boat ended up on the floor. Every cabinet, closet, cupboard, light fixture, furniture, tv, directv box, internet modem, electronic items, i.e. radar, gps, radio, stereo, tools, tool boxes, and everything else that was above floor level (I'm the victim here). It will cost me but I am alive and no diesel was spilled. (glad you're unhurt and no spill, not glad you're still boating). That was the main concern of the USCG." (who are still scratching their heads at my utter stupidity)
"You don’t know what happened unless you were there. (and I should know because I wasn't completely there) I am the one that got hit (though some would say I did the "hitting") I didn’t see him (I was toileting while single-handing under power in a major navigation channel; who could have predicted trouble?) That was my mistake. I have been in auto accidents (I drive cars too) but that is the hardest I have ever been hit(Er..hit something) Everything on this boat ended up on the floor. Every cabinet, closet, cupboard, light fixture, furniture, tv, directv box, internet modem, electronic items, i.e. radar, gps, radio, stereo, tools, tool boxes, and everything else that was above floor level (I'm the victim here). It will cost me but I am alive and no diesel was spilled. (glad you're unhurt and no spill, not glad you're still boating). That was the main concern of the USCG." (who are still scratching their heads at my utter stupidity)
AstoriaDave
New member
Marco Flamingo wrote: I was wondering what would have happened if the rammed ferry would have had a CG escort. Regardless of the stand off rules for the ferries, what are the CG rules when a small private vessel is going to ram a ferry? I doubt that Nap Tyme's hull would have stood up as well against .50 caliber machine gun fire.
I suspect this depends heavily on the nature of the smaller vessel, and on how aggressively it approaches the larger passenger vessel. Here is my experience with one of these patrols:
Shortly after the local county marine patrol and USCG were charged with patrolling the area surrounding cruise ships moored at the Port of Astoria, circa 2003, I believe, but before added RIB vessels were available for the local USCG to use for this purpose, I paddled my sea kayak past one. Unaware of any new restrictions, I slowly went past it, about 50 yards off, as I had been doing for several years. At the limit of my peripheral vision, I picked up something tracking me, between me and the cruise ship. As I swung my head that direction, a voice sang out, "Hey, is that you, Dave?"
The voice came from longtime buddy Tim, on duty as a reservist USCG, from the county's patrol boat. It had on board Tim, a USCG officer, and one of the county marine officers. They swung up closer to me and identified me. We had a cordial conversation, in which they informed me I was too close, within the 100 yard exclusionary zone. I moved out and finished my trip. End of story, although I wondered what they would have done if I were not known to them.
I believe similar patrols are now common when cruise ships are in port, but typically the patrolling vessel is a USCG RIB equipped with a 50 cal machine gun. I bet they intercept small vessels routinely and warn them off, sans use of the machine gun.
I suspect this depends heavily on the nature of the smaller vessel, and on how aggressively it approaches the larger passenger vessel. Here is my experience with one of these patrols:
Shortly after the local county marine patrol and USCG were charged with patrolling the area surrounding cruise ships moored at the Port of Astoria, circa 2003, I believe, but before added RIB vessels were available for the local USCG to use for this purpose, I paddled my sea kayak past one. Unaware of any new restrictions, I slowly went past it, about 50 yards off, as I had been doing for several years. At the limit of my peripheral vision, I picked up something tracking me, between me and the cruise ship. As I swung my head that direction, a voice sang out, "Hey, is that you, Dave?"
The voice came from longtime buddy Tim, on duty as a reservist USCG, from the county's patrol boat. It had on board Tim, a USCG officer, and one of the county marine officers. They swung up closer to me and identified me. We had a cordial conversation, in which they informed me I was too close, within the 100 yard exclusionary zone. I moved out and finished my trip. End of story, although I wondered what they would have done if I were not known to them.
I believe similar patrols are now common when cruise ships are in port, but typically the patrolling vessel is a USCG RIB equipped with a 50 cal machine gun. I bet they intercept small vessels routinely and warn them off, sans use of the machine gun.