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Lollygaggin

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In our seemingly never ending search for a pilot house type trailerable boat we've noticed quite a few similarities between the C-Dory, the Osprey, and the Sea Sport boats. C-Dory is the most appealing brand so far because of the availability and affordability but there seems to be varying opinions regarding the rough water capabilities of these various brands. The last thing we want is to be activating the epirb because the waves got too scary on the way to Alaska. We almost always travel at hull speed (+/- 4 knts) and have no qualms about taking a long time to get somewhere, but our main concern and objective is still "getting somewhere". Again, we don't go looking for storms and we faithfully watch the weather and barometer but we do need a boat that will be able to stay afloat in a storm while we slowly make our way to a safe harbor. And these cored hulls are a new thing to us also. Are they equally as sea worthy as the solid fiberglass hulls? I'm still wading through this whole forum as I am still fairly new to it, but so far the C-Dory appears to be a very capable vessel. Input? :? :?
 
We cruised BC and SE Alaska extensively in our C-Dory 22 cruiser, and have "enjoyed" 8-10 foot waves several times, and 25-foot seas on one pretty dramatic occasion. Don't think I could ask for a more seaworthy small boat in big water.

Our boat of the last 16 years, a 26-footer somewhat like a Sea Sport, handles a short chop much more smoothly, being fairly deep-V and 3X the weight, but I don't think it's any better in big waves.

My opinion: the only situation in which the CD22 doesn't perform admirably is trying to maintain planing cruise speed on a short chop - its low weight and nearly flat transom deadrise makes it tend to pound. We would sometimes move our big cooler into the cabin to provide more bow weight in the short chop situation. Seems like a good tradeoff for terrific fuel economy and easy towing.
 
Well, the C-Dory is a light boat, compared to the Ospry and SeaSport and is limited to an outboard. And yes it does bounce around in rough seas. It balances that out with other characteristics, lighter being one of them, handy being another and of course, bouncing doesn't mean it's not seaworthy. After all it's based on a dory hull, flat bottomed.

If you want the "best" boat for rough water, you want a deep-v, either with an inboard or a set of big outboards on the rear. An increase in size wouldn't hurt either, say to 27 or 30 ft. But there are times I've wished for the Queen Mary.

I've sailed with an EPIRB, but not in a C-Dory. Personally, we try to stay out of situations where we really get knocked around and might need rescue. When they happen, though, Journey On rattles a bit and gets us through. And we have been offshore a couple of times, say to Santa Cruz Isle, for example.

So, while you look at C-Dorys, also include heavier deep-v's in your search. Just remember there are tradeoffs, or we all would be in larger, heavier boats. Because they're more comfortable and have more room. But they cost more to buy, maintain and run. The C-Dory is a good cruising boat for what we do, which is cruise for a couple of months from the Great Lakes to the Pacific Northwest.

Boris
 
The big differences between the C-Dory and the other boats you mention: weight (the C-Dory is lighter), power required to move the boat at speed (C-Dory requires less power due to the hull shape), and cost (as you have discovered, none of those boats are inexpensive, but the C-Dory is the most affordable).

Yes, you have to slow down some in chop with the relatively flatter C-Dory hull compared to the deeper V-hull of the others (and their weight and cost). At hull speed, the C-Dory does not wallow like a deeper V-hull will, making for a more comfortable ride. When conditions get really snotty and you have to slow down, you will appreciate a hull shape that does well slower.

There are also differences in layout and finishing. I appreciate the fact that you can get to almost everything in the C-Dory without a lot of fuss.

If you need to run 30+ mph most of the time and the fuel cost isn't a concern, either of those other boats is a good choice. If you are going to run slower and would appreciate better fuel burn, the C-Dory is a better choice. There are a lot of other reasons people buy boats, so you have to factor that in, as well... and one of the best things going for the C-Dory is this forum and the people who participate.

A lot of people go through the same decision making process as you. All three boats have historically sold well, so there is obviously a market for each.

As far as the hull strength of the C-Dory, we had been out in conditions that made me wish I was anyplace else, but the boat handled it fine. When waves get tall or steep, you do have to maintain positive input, but the boat can handle it.

Good luck with the decisions.

Jim B.
 
Lollygaggin,

Hi, and good luck with your search. As you read through the C-Brats site you will see that there have been many of the 22's and 25's that have made the Alaska trip. All have survived :lol: and whether it be to the credit of the skipper or the craft, I can't say for sure. (I happen to think that the level of seamanship demonstrated my most C-Dory skippers is considerably above the average of most recreational craft on the water.)

I don't think the hull being cored or solid would make as much difference (if it makes any) as the shape of the hull, ie. the point of entry, the bottom - flat or Vee, the transom dead-rise, or the chine - hard, soft or re-curved.

It sounds like you are pretty capable of weather awareness. I think that is a primary consideration in a cruise of this extent. As an old, long time sailor, one of our considerations was when to take in a reef. The saying was if you had to ask, it should have been done. Same on the C-Dory, watching the weather and sea conditions into the future will make the day, the ride and the dinner all go smoother.

Look up Sam Landsman of Retriever, and check out his trip to Alaska from a couple years ago, and then the last one around Vancouver Island. Most of his traveling was at hull speed. But when/if he needed to turn on the power, it was there for him, and in a relatively economical boat. Or check with Rob, of beermanPDX who often boats with his friend. Rob is on a C-D 25 and the friend is on a SeaSport. See if they have compared notes on fuel for side by side trips. I had friends on a Bayliner 22 that we boated with side by side on several trips. Yes, they could punch through the chop faster than I could, but when it came to fueling, mine was always half of his.

I don't think you can go wrong with a C-Dory. (Of course, that is just my opinion, and it is admittedly biased) but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Osprey and sea sport are tough boats. SeaSport, especially, has a great reputation in Alaska. The only thing that steered me toward c-dory from these was that i hate outdrives. I hate how they take up deck space, I hate the stupid stern seels, I hate listening to everyone whom has one bitch about them. Everyone here will be bias towards c-dory, but I doubt many of them will bash seasport.
 
I would try to look at a 23' Cape Cruiser or an actual C-Dory Venture. The hulls are the same but the Ventures had bigger steps going into the cockpit and under berth bow storage. They both have a slight more of a V in the bow area and are about a thousand pounds heavier as the Venture have foam core as opposed to balsa. They both have a little bigger cock pit and beam than a 22' Cruiser. The pointer bow lets them load better on a trailer I think as the hull design keeps them centered a little better than a standard 22' Cruiser.
Some thought might be given to the cost of a trailer for the weight of the boat you choose. Also the tow vehicle spec's can be effected which will in turn effect you bankroll not mention gas or fuel mileage if you want to be a true road warrior. First thing I would do is try to arrange a ride in the boat of your choice from a current owner. For me I don't want to ever marry an outdrive equipped boat. Boot failures and the like can sink a boat. Not mention motors being somewhat of a bitch to work on. JMHO here.
D.D.
 
I certainly agree with all that is posted above. Dave's comments about trailering are especially important, since the C Dory is far easier--and the reason we went back down in size from a Tom Cat and C Dory 25 to the 22.

As for "seaworthiness" take a look on the C Dory playing in the waves on the Columbia river bar! Probably the roughest water we were in with our C Dory was running down Johnstone Straight with about 40 to 50 knots of wind from behind and waves at least 10 feet. A bit of work, but never any safety issue. There were no other boats moving that day.

I have been in head seas, where I either slowed down (to the speed you are speaking of normally running) and /or tucked in behind a boat moving faster who knocked down the seas. Once in AK, we had fished a bit longer than prudent as the wind blew. We were moving along at 4 to 5 knots, and not all that uncomfortable, but some water flying (bow down, with Permatrim and trim tabs). Along came a fishing trawler about 60 feet long, and we fell in behind. He was trying to maintain 8 knots but was knocked down to 6 frequently as he hit a particularly heavy sea. During a month in AK there was only one day we did not get underway--and that day the 80 footers were not moving also.

I have spent a fair amount of time studying blistering in boat, delimitation in cored and non cored hulls, and issues with core rot. These are issues found in almost all boats, because of cored decks. After Hurricane Ivan I was given 20 boats which were destined to go to the dump, so I could study cored hulls. We also developed ultrasonic instrumentation to evaluate corded hulls (not taken to market because of lack of interest of Marine surveyors and builders.) We found that the vast majority of cored hulls had no delimitation, and were as good as the solid hulls. Some of these boats were over 40 years old. I also have sailed over 10,000 miles in ocean racing in a friend's boat with a cored hull. That boat has well over 100,000 miles on it, including 3 circumnavigations. We hit a container at 8 knots on a stormy night off the coast of Baja Calif, during a race. The hull was not breeched--and I believe that most single layer hulls would have been sunk.

There have been a few issues with the cored hulls in C Dorys, as well as manly other brands. However, the vast majority have been issues where there were core penetrations, and water sat in the boat, so that it penetrated into the core.

The cored hull is stiffer than the non corded hull. I consider the C Dory to be a very seaworthy boat. There are times when any light weight boat will be uncomfortable. (I always carry an EPrIB---and never have considered using it, even in some storms with hurricane force winds and an Atlantic crossing (not in a C Dory)
 
Thataway wrote: Probably the roughest water we were in with our C Dory was running down Johnstone Straight with about 40 to 50 knots of wind from behind and waves at least 10 feet. A bit of work, but never any safety issue. There were no other boats moving that day.

Sheesh! Those are extreme conditions! A tribute to the boat and its operator that you could safely run that.
 
Once again, many thanks to you all for the responses. We looked at a 22 C-Dory in our moorage basin and determined it to be too small for our needs. A wider beam would have sufficed but I think the 25 is the way we're going to go. Already have the tow vehicle to pull our current cruiser around. Now, finding something is going to be tough. I see there's already someone else from Kelowna expressing interest in the 23 Venture in Nfld. We do want to stick with the 25 C-Dory though, but they are far and few between. I'll get to work listing our RV and our current 2000 240 SeaRay and just have to keep my eyes peeled for a 25 in good shape that's preferably been trailered all it's life. Hope to find one in the PNW somewhere though. This is exciting already.
 
Harvey.

I can't seem to respond to your PM, tried twice and it just disappears. Please let me know if you got 2 responses that were similar.

Thanx,

Chris
 
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