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wickerdave

New member
Hello everyone,

My wife and I just moved to Oregon from Iowa, brought my Texas flats boat with us and have decided we need to switch boats next spring. I love to fish and cruise and my wife likes a comfortable boat. If it were comfortable enough I'm sure she would like some overnight cruises, etc. We really like the C-Dory and it's many uses and it's quality and safety. What I would like to know is how is the boat for over-nighting as in sleeping onboard. Would a 22' cruiser accommodate 2 couples? and how shallow can you safety run (river cruising). Thanks so much, Can't wait to cruise on Lake Powell again.

Wicker
 
The 22 is a great overnight boat for two people. We spent over two weeks on ours all the time. Some people spend a lot more time then that. It's not weather or not the boat can be used for a over nighter but whether you can be comfortable on a 22. I tell people its the vw vanagon of boating.
 
Hello Wicker,

I have Marinaut 215, but the CD 22 cruisers and up are very nice boats for overnight trips as well (I previously owned a CD 16 Cruiser, and have been inside CD 22's and a 23.) In my opinion, the key to having a pleasant stay is having a full camper back. If you have that, then it is possible for two people to sleep on cots in the cockpit in relative privacy, but as Tom stated, it's tight for two couples. For two people, our boats are superb for even multiple overnights -- if we have the camper back. When it rains, it essentially gives us a second, usable room. Believe me, it makes a difference. At night, we can use the entire cockpit as a head/changing area. This is true for C-Dory's as it is for our Marinaut. Using Hypervent for under the berth cushions prevents condensation from building up under your bedding. So it can be very pleasant.

As for river travel, the C-Dory's and Marinaut are ideal for rivers. My wife and I have spent a lot of time on a 45 mile stretch of the lower Connecticut River, from Hartford to Old Saybrook. These boats have a very shallow draft. We need about 18 inches of water under the hull (depending upon the model of O/B) to safely operate the boat, but if you have a kicker with a shallow water drive, you can probably travel in 12 to 14 inches of water, with only 3 to 5 inches of water under the bottom of the boat. It would not be wise to go quickly in those conditions, but as I stated recently in a post, the kicker can operate at a very shallow angle so as to lessen the risk of a prop strike.

Finally, one of the best books I've ever read, which fundamentally has changed my view on boating, is "Outboard Boater's Handbook Advanced Seamanship and Practical Skills", edited by David R. Getchell, Sr., 1994, International Marine. Its a collection of articles from the now defunct publication, Small Boat Journal. Getting back to going overnight with two couples -- yes, it's tight for two couples on our boats, but as this book explains, what if our boats become a vehicle for taking a leisurely trip up river, to select a camping spot, anchor the boat, and pitch our tents for the night? There is more space available in camping for both couples then to be on a 150 foot yacht! In this book, people have taken extended journeys in 12 to 16 foot boats with nothing more then gear, provisions and a 5 HP motor! It was from this book that I grasped the concepts: 1) big is bigger -- not better, 2) why speed by beautiful locations? -- take your time to enjoy it, and 3) buy a boat for your needs, because if you buy one that is too large, it may end up too difficult to operate when only you are on the boat. If you want to take river trips, and are thinking about a C-Dory (or Marinaut), I highly recommend reading this book. The book goes into all aspect of small boating.

Rich
 
The 22's are not adequate for more than two people cruising. Day trips with 4 are possible, but the potty arrangements are not conducive for day trips that keep you away from shore for more than a few hours. Sleeping two people in the cockpit on cots?.......No, I don't think so. If they are little kids maybe and if you have good camper backs. You must take a really big jump in price, say double, and jump in size, say 6 more feet before you can consider two couple cruising. From say a 60 grand CD 22 to a 140 grand 27 foot nordic tug or such. Now, if you want to throw the other couple out at night into a beach tenting situation AND you can handle the potty issues, then you could deal with 4 for a few days. I think most owners of 25's and the 255 will agree that they are also pretty much two person boats for cruising.
 
I've cruised on a 22' sailboat with 3 adults and 2 ea teenage girls, for 3 days at Santa Cruz Island. It was a memorable experience, a good one at that. However, we were younger and we never did it again.

I've recently cruised with 3 ea adults and 2 kids on a 25' C-Dory (San Juan Islands.) That was enjoyable, though crowded. Remember the 25 has an enclosed head which makes the difference, especially in the middle of the night. 2 adults in the V-berth, one on the dinette and the 4th gets a choice of the bottom of the cabin or the cockpit. I got to try both, outside in decent weather, inside in rain.

So, I'd recommend a 25 C-Dory. Bigger boat, both for handling, room and price. Still trailerable. Your choice, though.

Boris
 
potter water":p0szvwnl said:
The 22's are not adequate for more than two people cruising. Day trips with 4 are possible, but the potty arrangements are not conducive for day trips that keep you away from shore for more than a few hours. Sleeping two people in the cockpit on cots?.......No, I don't think so. If they are little kids maybe and if you have good camper backs. You must take a really big jump in price, say double, and jump in size, say 6 more feet before you can consider two couple cruising. From say a 60 grand CD 22 to a 140 grand 27 foot nordic tug or such. Now, if you want to throw the other couple out at night into a beach tenting situation AND you can handle the potty issues, then you could deal with 4 for a few days. I think most owners of 25's and the 255 will agree that they are also pretty much two person boats for cruising.
Click to expand...

The issue that many people continue to have with the CD22's and our Marinaut is Potti arrangements. Everyone seems to be hung up on the fact that these boats lack heads. What is a head? It is a tiny, phone-booth sized enclosure for a tiny toilet. I don't agree that the CD 22 or the Marinaut can't have very comfortable Potti arrangements if: 1) one installs a premium camperback, and 2) one buys a big portable toilet, and 3) one builds a portable toilet enclosure for the cockpit that affords the privacy of a head with twice the space. From my experience in our Marinaut, we very comfortably day-cruise with a total of four people, and have very excellent Potti facilities as I described in previous posts and my photo album. In fact, we took an older couple, who cruised extensively in a 36 foot sailboat, and they loved our Potti arrangements. The one negative thing about a CD 22 or 23 is that there is no place to stow a large portable toilet; in the Marinaut, it conveniently tucked under the splashwell. But other then that, the CD 22, 23, 25 and Marinaut are wonderful day cruisers for 4 people.

Upon reflection, you are right about the cockpit lacking length for adults on the CD 22 -- I was thinking more in lines of the Marinaut, and forgot that there is, I believe, no room under the splashwell to place one's feet in a CD 22. But even for our Marinaut, while it is possible for a couple to sleep in the cockpit of our boat, it's an unattractive option, which was why I made mention of the camping alternative.

I also agree with you that pitching a tent is not for everyone. I'm too old for camping now and too used to the many conveniences in life, albeit I camped quite a lot 40 year's ago. It all depends on what people are trying to get out of the experience. Some people would love it. Actually, the best way to utilize our C-Dory's and Marinaut's for 4-person cruising over multiple nights is to utilize transient marina stays. So you are very correct about the fact that a very much larger boat size (of good design) is needed for 4 person cruising if you plan to live on the boat for several days without using transient berths.

The reason why I mentioned camping, and the book, is that I don't really know the cruising grounds that Wicker was interested in. He mentioned rivers. What if the rivers have spots in which he has to navigate are very shallow. You definitely can't get a large boat in those waters. It may be even too shallow for C-Dory's. The book I mentioned has examples of boats that can travel very fast in 6 inches of water -- these are tunnel hulls with jet drives. I saw a large bass boat on the Connecticut River, traveling at 20+ mph with a Mercury Engine w/stainless steel prop placed on a hydraulic jack plate, for example. This boat was hauling, and the water was only 12 to 14 inches deep! As you might expect, the engine was really jacked up so that only the prop and the water intake port were in the water. The book also explains these kind of options. The book also has creative ideas for using production boats in creative ways -- for converting production speed boats into cruisers.

There is no limit to human creativity, which is why I have been so impressed with the C-Brats! My wife and I are a major beneficiary of their ideas and their can-do mindset.

Thanks,

Rich
 
I seem to recall Bill and El traveling with one or two of their kids, and a grandkid or two. They are the exception, rather than the rule. A CD-22 (or 25) limitation is where to put people for extended time. Sure, you can use the cockpit with a couple chairs... who sits out there when you're running. The dinette will handle two. The dinette on our 25 will seat 3... so, with 4 people onboard, the boat lists to the port side due to 3 bodies on that side. OK, lets go with one at the helm, one at the co-pilot seat, and two sitting in folding chairs out in the cockpit... not exactly the best for conversation.

Sleeping? Two in the v-berth, one on the folded down dinette, and one... um... on the floor or in the cockpit? Pretty sure that's what Bill and El did. Personally, I can't think of anyone I like well enough to have to walk over them on my way to the potty in the middle of the night. What happens if someone likes to sleep in? And you want to be up early?

And speaking of the potty - we are now at 5 months on this trip with our boat, and it would be off the board without that enclosed head. With a shower. And hot and cold pressure water. Yes, the cockpit can work... if the weather doesn't turn cold... and you have some sort of hot water out there. Oh, how long will 20 gallons of fresh water last you? Most people will go through more than that with one shower.

One has to be realistic about how you will REALLY use a boat. These boats are (in my honest opinion) great for a couple. If the other couple wants to cruise, they should buy one, too!

It is rare that we have anyone ask, "How many can sleep in that boat?" (they can see how small it is) We used to get that question all the time when we had the 40' motorhome... apparently, people think the inside is lined with bunks? :roll: We had our standard line:
Drinks eight, Feeds four, Sleeps TWO.

If you rented a motel room that had only one bed, would the second couple expect to stay with you overnight? No, they'd get their own darn room. And everyone would be happy.

Same with boats. I am frequently amused when I hear people at boat shows say, "This one will sleep 6 - we could take the neighbors out for the weekend!" The neighbors might have something better to do than sleep on the floor or the cockpit of a boat.

The right tool for the job.

We really enjoy our C-Dory. It has taken us from coast to coast to coast. It isn't luxurious, but I call it "an adventure cruiser." We can take it almost anywhere we want to go (within the fuel range of the boat). It would be WAY less fun with 4 people onboard overnight.

Think I'm outta line? Try having the 4 of you stay in your bathroom at home for 24 hours... sure, you can bring folding chairs. That's probably close to the square footage the boat has... well, your bathroom is probably wider. OK, let's make it the hallway at home... you can still have the folding chairs AND a porta-potty... and a table that will feed two... the other two can hold their food on their laps... we'll all turn our heads while you use the porta-potty... sound like fun? If you think your friendship or family can survive that, well, you're ready to try it on a moving platform. Could be an adventure or an ordeal - a lot of it depends on the attitude of those involved.

Just trying to put a dose of reality in there.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I agree that the 22 is not conducive to two couples--although families of 5 often cruise the boat (with some sleeping ashore, or perhaps in the cockpit. I find that even the Tom Cat is crowded with two couples--or 3 adults and 2 kids. There are a very few 27 footers which will accommodate 2 couples--but even then it is confined. (for example a boat which has a queen size bunk under the forward end of the cockpit and then a table/V berth forward.--we owned a Rinker 27 which had that arrangement, but Sea Ray, Bayliner, 4 winns, Regal, Grady White, Pursuit, etc all produce similar boats, which are deeper V hulls.

As for draft--the boats can run in about 12 to 18" of water-certainly as shoal a draft as any other boat this size.
 
We have spent 2 weeks at a time with 4 of us - 3 Adults and a 14yr old. Love it with no problems. Both couples would need to 'just enjoy the cruise' and deal with the space. The 22 is not made for 4 people (I don't think 25 is either), but it would work as it works great for us.

It was a hard decision between the 22 and 25, but now that we have a Winnebago View motorhome to tow with, thankfully we went with the CD22. We love ours.

Good luck.
 
Jim, Bob, Et Al.

We are all in agreement. It all depends on where, when and how one uses their boats. My wife and I, for example, spent 19 straight nights on our Marinaut at La Conner and Anacortes Cap Sante Boat Haven. We could have stayed two months at Cap Sante, because it had everything we needed: wonderful rest room and shower facilities, a sunny and inviting laundry area, great walking trails and boardwalk, and restaurants and all kinds of services within a very short walking distance. If I knew then what I have learned since that time, I would have used an electric heater and lights, installed Hypervent, and set up our Portable toilet enclosure with a Thetford Curve. Then we would really have lived large! But take that same boat, anchor somewhere and live on her for several days at a time -- it would drive my wife and I crazy, because there is not enough space and conveniences on any boat less then forty feet (or perhaps even fifty feet) that we could tolerate living on without the ability to get off the boat and walk around several times a day, but that's us. There are so many parameters, limitations and wants when selecting a boat, and it is truly a balancing act. And in that light, I again bring up those articles from the Small Boat Journal I referenced earlier. Two people can take an extended cruise of a week on a small aluminum boat with a 5 HP motor and have a great time. It's all about innovation and attitude. I generally think that most of us, including me, are soft -- made so by technology. We think we need all these conveniences to survive. We don't even grow our own food anymore. Our forefathers idea of traveling on the Great Loop was a canoe, an axe/knife, rifle for food and protection, and a lot of common sense. They did not have two-ply toilet paper, hot and cold water, a shower, A/C, heater, electric lights, hamburgers, buns and Gray Poupon mustard. So it gets back to determining when, where and how one wants to use a boat with the realization that in making compromises, and through innovation and creativity, one can meet one's objectives, albeit making some compromises, and may well find that bigger is not better -- only bigger. We made that choice in a boat of our size, and are hooked. People don't believe us when we tell them that we will never buy a bigger boat. Why would we? We did our homework, it's a year later, and the only complaint we have is that in New England, the boating season is too short!

Rich
 
Thank you all so much for your replies. I think it is fairly apparent that the 22' C-Dory is a wonderful boat but not for more than a couple on an overnight. Guess my friends who are moving out here next year will just have to get their own C-Dory! I do have another question. Where would I go to find cruising opportunities in the pacific northwest, rivers, lakes etc. that are easily accomplished with a C-Dory. Recreational boating magazines, etc.

Thanks so much

Wicker
 
wickerdave":rc7j0ajg said:
Thank you all so much for your replies. I think it is fairly apparent that the 22' C-Dory is a wonderful boat but not for more than a couple on an overnight. Guess my friends who are moving out here next year will just have to get their own C-Dory! I do have another question. Where would I go to find cruising opportunities in the pacific northwest, rivers, lakes etc. that are easily accomplished with a C-Dory. Recreational boating magazines, etc.

Thanks so much

Wicker
Click to expand...
There are lots of sources but one of the best ones is simply to ask a question here. A high percentage of the Brats are from the PacNW and there's extensive knowledge in the group on cruising in the Puget Sound, the San Juans, the Inside Passage, the Columbia River and other local areas. I don't remember seeing many posts on the board about cruises on Oregon rivers and lakes but I'm sure there are some. Just ask a few specific questions like "What are the best lakes on which to cruise in Oregon?" or "What's the best cruising near location x?" and I'm sure someone will respond.

The website of Bill and El - http://cruisingamerica-halcyondays.com/locations.htm - is also famous for describing their cruising locations in detail. Only a couple of writings about Oregon locations but lots about just about every place else.
 
Wicker,

Welcome to the area. A lot of good suggestions from other C-Dory owners. I would add by recommending reading "The Curve of Time". Without going into the book this book will only wet your appetite for more of the northwest.

Mike
 
Several C-Brats regularly post about their Northwest adventures. Check out Jay's postings of his travels in Alaska on Hunky Dory. Or Jim and Joan's experiences this summer living on their 25 while working in Friday Harbor. I wrote a blog this summer about my Inside Passage trip and the link is in my signature. I'm sure there are plenty more that I'm forgetting about.

As far as cruising guides go you'd be hard pressed to find a better introduction to PNW boating than the Waggoner Guide, which covers the area from Olympia to Ketchikan. It's inexpensive and packed with information. For more details, check out the Exploring series of books by Don Douglass and his wife, Reanne. The Dreamspeaker series is also excellent.

A relatively new online magazine for boating in the northwest is Pacific Nor'West Boating. It's free and can be found at http://www.pacnwboat.com.

In the interest of full disclosure, I work for Fine Edge Publishing, which publishes all of the above. But I truly do believe the above mentioned guidebooks are the best available for cruising in the PNW. I relied on them long before I started working for the company.

Sea Magazine used to be west coast focused, not sure if they still are. Canadian Yachting West can also be a good read. So can Northwest Yachting.
 
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