So, then there is this....

Agree with Tom that the insurance topic, is really a non-topic. As an aside is stupid.
As an owner of a pod mounted outboard powered Seasport, my pod has NO pass through to the inside of the transom. My rigging cables go through the same fitting used in the Cutwater owners boat. But my fittings are 4' above the water line. Use good common sense.
The surveyors mention use of two 6" snap in deck plates, some posted a picture that showed screw-in plates with a black sealing o-ring clearly shown.
Fact is, the pod filled with water. Setting the aft end even lower. Water then clearly flowed through the (3) 2" rigging tube fittings into the interior boat hull. As Thataway mentioned, the location of the rigging tube fittings ( entering the pod ) may have had to do more with hiding the rigging tubes than using good common sense as to sea state conditions.
I think the builder is going to feel some pain, there is some poor planning regarding items and there position to the waterline.
 
Coincidentally, did anyone else notice from one of the survey reports that the boat is currently stored in a yard next door to the C-Dory factory? I was in the neighborhood and did a drive-by last weekend to take a peek, just out of curiosity. Not much to see of course, on the trailer and behind a chain link fence, you'd never know it was submerged and upside down in the lake just a month earlier. I did wonder what its fate will eventually be - will it be sold and scrapped out? Returned to the factory? Auctioned off (and then perhaps re-sold to some unsuspecting buyer)? Also made me think about all the heavy rains we've been having, how the hatches and windows leaked anyway...so much for drying out!
 
If this turns out to be a design or assembly issue, I hope Fluid Motion looks across their complete line of pod mounted outboard boats. There have been several threads on TugNuts discussing the R23 and R27 with water intrusion into the pod and bilge. From everything I have read Fluid Motion is very customer focused, however they do have quality issues in their assembly process, especially sealing components correctly. We love our RT25SC but we have had minor issues with water intrusion into the cabin due to improper sealing and other quality issues that have affected system performance which should have been caught during boat assembly.
 
Margaret & I met these folks and noname in Petersberg this year. They came over to Reefmadness to see some of the improvements we did. The owner was a very nice man and had his young family aboard. They were having a great time and heading north to pull the boat and go back to work in his helicopter skiing business. He also has a travel agency in Sweden. They know and expect good customer service. I'm sorry to see what happened to the Cutwater and quality control should be stepped up at their plant.
 
That is a nice letter but it does not answer the real questions. Words mean things and The words that I see state that " we now install a 24/7 fully automatic bilge pump inside the pod as an extra precaution." Does that mean that they did not at one time? Was this boat equipped that way at the time of sinking? . How can you say that you care about costumers and not call one back when he tells you his boat sank. Hey I want a 27 ranger so I am not hating on the cut water or Jeff, but his letter did not address any real concerns. It did not address how the boat showed up with so many defects and hoses not connected. It did not address the lack of response from the factory or the dealer, which is not to show up with a recovery grew as the owner thought they should ,but at some point they should have gone to see the boat at the site. I imagine that much of what is being said and communicated on both sides at this point is dictated by lawyers including The above linked response.

The courts are going to be the only ones to decide why this boat sank. If I owned a 302 I would be looking at my boat ans how it is rigged really close and maybe trying to simulate the conditions that lead to this sinking. How much water can the pumps handle, how much weight one the stern until the boat takes on water?

Another note. I see on the tug nuts and other sites that people are making excuses for the dealer. Stating that the at the beginning of the year dealers are over worked on new boat delivers and work is not getting done on time but they care about the customer. Maybe if you cared you would hire more people or limit your promises to fit your abilities. I deal with customers all day and I could increase my sells . But I do not want to turn over my clients to secretaries and voice messaging. So I just take on what I can and I do not take on to many clients at once. Do I lose potential business some times? Yes but the business I do have gets taken care of.
 
This event over on the " Hull Truth " is meeting with some very harsh words. The Brat community seem to be kinder people.
If as Jeff wrote. We filled the pod full of water and the waterline only changed by 1 1/2 " .
THEN HOW DID THIS BOAT SINK ?

Something is missing ? And on a lake with 1 to 2' chop. And the aluminum skiff was still tied to the dock unaffected.

1 + 1 is not adding up to 2.

And remember, the pod should only fill to the same waterline level as the exterior waterline level. Unless there is piping allowing a siphoning effect into the boat inner hull.
 
san juanderer":hm6b9tgm said:
THEN HOW DID THIS BOAT SINK ?

Something is missing ? And on a lake with 1 to 2' chop. And the aluminum skiff was still tied to the dock unaffected.

1 + 1 is not adding up to 2.

And remember, the pod should only fill to the same waterline level as the exterior waterline level. Unless there is piping allowing a siphoning effect into the boat inner hull.
Click to expand...

I believe, reading the two surveyors reports, the conclusion was that the control cables for the outboards went thru holes in the transom which were below the static waterline.

I would guess that the owner's attorney suggested that the blog and open comments be taken down. All of this open communication may not have been the best course when legal action is involved. It is also possible that Fluid Motion had demanded that the blog be removed.

Unfortunately, unless someone copied the survey reports--these are no longer in the public domain--and we cannot access that information. The wheels of justice will now grind slowly.
 
Postby Jeff Messmer on Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:46 am

I had a good conversation with André, the owner of the 302. I apologized in the name of Fluid Motion and Port Boat House for not having picked up the phone sooner. We both agreed, that nothing would be gained by pointing fingers and a long legal battle. The boat will be coming back to the factory. Meanwhile, Andre has offered to take down his website.
Jeff Messmer
V.P Sales and Marketing
Ranger Tugs
25802 Pacific Hwy So.
Kent, Wa 98032
Phone 253 839 5213
Cell 206 940 0571
e-mail jeffmessmer@rangertugs.com
Click to expand...

Just an update
thataway-- call me today.
 
starcrafttom":3qhaxghm said:
The customer is always right. ALways.
Click to expand...


I respectfully disagree that the "customer is always right". In this case perhaps yes, but when the owner of a small pontoon takes his craft 30 miles offshore in gale force winds, and than blames his capsizing on the boat manufacturer, I say the customer is not 'always' right.


In another life I was the head of factory warranty and the unbelievably stupid and often negligent mistakes some owners made would bring tears to your eyes. In each case, the 'customer was found to be 'wrong', although we too lost in the number of hours expended responding to frivolous claims.


Perhaps when the WWII 'greatest generation' were the buyers I would agree with you on the customer always being right, but today, sorry to say, there are a 'few' spoiled adult-children that refuse to take responsibility for their actions, and blame everyone else for their mistakes
 
Our motto here at Wefings is "the customer is always right ,even when they are wrong" . Its amazing the range of customers we deal with . But we try to make them right . Always.

Marc
 
BTDT":2bndnmeo said:
...but today, sorry to say, there are a 'few' spoiled adult-children that refuse to take responsibility for their actions, and blame everyone else for their mistakes
Click to expand...

There are a way more than a 'few'.
 
Wefings":3aj3ftyj said:
Our motto here at Wefings is "the customer is always right ,even when they are wrong" . Its amazing the range of customers we deal with . But we try to make them right . Always.

Marc
Click to expand...

True words! Thanks Marc.
 
All my customers are right even when they are not. I do not see that the customer in this case did anything wrong that resulted in the boat sinking. If I am wrong point it out to me. His list of add ons in the beginning was exactly what I would do if I ordered a new boat and is what many people do when they buy a home. I just cant see why a dealer would not provided updates and progress reports before the owners showed up. some of the parts were never ordered let alone installed.

As far as the boat sinking, I think cut water has a design problem on that model that needs to be addressed. I think that will be apparent in the coming days.

I would still buy one of the 27 tugs with the outboard. I talker to the owner a few days ago and I can say , as other that meet him, that is not a new boater or even a boater with out skills. He had a great time on the boat and thought it performed very well while cruising the inside passage. I still do not understand the insurance issue but that has nothing to do with the boat sinking.

As far a Millennials go. I think they get a bad rap. i sell houses to lot of them that are just the greatest people. Vets and blue collar workers at boeing , contractors, plumpers etc. Yes some of the higher educated are morons and there is a big lack of common knowledge among some but no more then any generation at that age.
 
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