Sea Sport Acquisition

woodduck":wjxysv7e said:
Greetings,
Seems like some folks are trying to brow beat the fine management of Sea Sport into honoring warranties on boats they didn't build. Not honoring warranties on boats they didn't build seems very logical to me.
...
Taking responsibility for some one else's mistakes in the business world is a short cut to disaster. This topic has been discussed over & over. Time to bark up another tree?
Ken
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Well stated, Ken. This isn't about support for those of us who had warranty coverage with the former builders; that went away when they did. This forum is an important resource for ALL C-Dory owners, even more so with the Reynolds and FM out of the picture.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Hi,
What's great about this site and this country for that matter is everyone is entitled to their opinion. Ending a post with isn't about time to bark up other tree would seem that your opinion is the only one with merit and should be the end of it. It might even be intimidating to some. It's nice to have people join your side of the topic. It's only my opinion but I think it's healthly to hear both sides and let the topic run it's course with out the interjections of enough already. There are lots of things that end up as topics that I just don't respond to so they can die a natural death while still giving other the right to voice their opinion.
D.D.
 
I don't know the legalities of all this, but if my experience with them is any example, those guys at Sea Sport will go out of their way to help with any legitimate C-Dory issue. I could be wrong, but I do think the evidence of their past performance, the quality of their product, and the goodwill they have earned over the years, should help relieve some of the concerns. It's a difficult situation over which neither we nor Sea Sport had control. I'm glad C-Dory is owned by Sea Sport, and I'm glad you have your boat and I have mine.
 
A Chinese corporation closed on the sale of the Hummer line today. You think they are going to warranty all the Hummers built in the past by GM. I seriously doubt it, unless that was bargained for in the deal, with the buyer getting a corresponding credit against the purchase price for assuming those liabilities. Something which was apparently not part of the Fluid Marine / Sea Sport deal.
Look at it this way. Times are tough in the boating industry and taking on additional liabilities in this economy is not sound business. Additionally, these liabilities would have to be reflected on their balance sheet and may affect their ability to finaince their operation. Sea Sport has to worry about surviving this downturn/depression more than the feelings of someone who bought a bought from another company that apparently is bankrupt.
I understand the disappointment of finding you no longer have a warranty that you paid for, but this isn't Sea Sport's fault. It is Fluid Marine's fault.
 
think they are going to warranty all the Hummers built in the past by GM. I seriously doubt it
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There is no way someone would purchase the Hummer brand and not continue warranty work - or at least it would not be a very good idea.

Here is a quote from an article written today:

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"There's still a loyal customer base ... that loves Hummer," Taylor said.

In Central Texas, Hummer owners won't see any noticeable changes in warranty or service work, according to a news release from Hewlett Hummer in Georgetown.
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http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/other/2009/10/10/1010hummer.html

Maybe Sea Sport should read the article.

PS - no sour grapes here, when we purchased our CD22 - I figured there would not be any warranty - I don't see this as a problem. I'm just a business owner/person that finds this an interesting decision on Sea Sports side.
 
If they're thinking purely in immediate short run terms, it might make some sense for SeaSport to shed warranty responsibility for non-SeaSport built boats. I really do believe though that offering some warranty support and assistance (even limited or with a co-pay) to existing owners who qualify will be a good business decision, not a bad one. It will foster brand loyalty, will certainly help the dealer network move their existing inventory, and will presumably lead to the production/sale of SeaSport build C-Dory boats. It doesn't take an MBA from Harvard to imagine the general conditions and production decisions a manufacturer might make during the final decline into insolvency, so why not do something to boost confidence in the brand? Even if just for the unsold dealer inventory? In fairness to SeaSport, they may not be in a financial position to offer any assistance at all, and like many others may be wondering how they're going to make payroll this month. Until they actually produce a C-Dory boat some may wonder if part of the plan was to reduce competition by buying up the C-Dory molds. Catch 22: how many will feel comfortable buying a new boat from a firm that's demonstrated a willingness to walk away from obligations while keeping the benefits of a brand they've purchased, regardless of the legalities? Sales numbers will eventually tell. Disclosures: I'm a former 2X C-Dory owner, but sold our 2007 Angler last fall so have no current stake in this issue. I will be looking to get back into boating next year and have expanded my search to include Arima mainly due to the ownership instability in the C-Dory line. I wouldn't buy a new boat without a hull warranty or from a troubled Mfg. except at a very steep discount, and probably not even then. I have run a successful referral-based business for over 20 years. I do believe SeaSport makes a quality boat and welcome their producing the C-Dory line. I don't intend for mine to be the last word or only opinion so keep the posts coming as you choose. Cheers! Mike.
 
I would not be afraid to purchase C-Dory with out the warranty if the price was right. I would feel a little left out in the cold if I had purchased a new boat thinking I would be covered only to find out that I was on my own.My guess is that the selling dealer would do as much as possible to help resolve issues. Perhaps doing work at cost as a good will gesture.

With That A Ways post in hand you could inspect any boat before purchase or hire a surveyor to do it for you. 16 and 22's are pretty simple but the 25 and the cat require a bit more caution before purchase.

Just my 2 cents

Fred, Pat and Mr. Grey(the cat)
 
Is this horse still being beaten?? here I will sum it up for you all. they should have , they did not, it may or may not work out, time will tell. the end. :wink:
 
Goodness, where to begin....

I'm sort of the opposite position from Mike. We owned a 2003 CD22 and sold her in May 2008. Warranty issues were never an issue, Period. Les (EQ Marine) had the boat ready for a white-glove inspection in June 2003 and in 650+ hours (five years) we never even came close to a "warranty issue." Lucky Us.

Eighteen months later I had regained my senses, and was ready to buy another boat. I looked at a variety of boats (both new and used), but frankly the quality of the "warranty" wasn't one of my requirements. Much more important to me was the VESSEL itself, my inspection, and appearance of use and care by the previous owner. Sure, a warranty would have been nice, but would you trade it for what you SEE?

Frankly, my impression is that a warranty mainly benefits the first purchaser. Several warranty's don't even transfer to subsequent owners even though there has been no corporate changes! Moreover, virtually every state has its own warranty legislation, so what you get in ________ (fill-in your State) may not be exactly what you were expecting. No, I prefer to proceed on the basis of what I SEE. If I was buying a new vessel with no warranty I'd probably want to use that as leverage in the final negotiation - but in a used vessel, other factors are more compelling.

After much though and inspection of several used C-Dory-like vessels I decided on a Cape Cruiser 23 (aka: Venture in C-Dory parlance...). And given the whole Cape Cruiser vs. C-Dory Story the existence of a warranty wasn't even a consideration. Hell, nobody loves Cape Cruisers ... except the Owners (many of whom I consulted).

A hull warranty wasn't even a consideration. Could I regret this decision; maybe. I'll just have to live with it. Example: I recently had the dealer do a bottom-job. (If the boat had a warranty I may have opted to just have bottompaint. As it was, I decided to go to the extra expense of a barrier coat (extra protection against blisters, etc.) In any case, without a warranty, the deal was strictly between me an my dealer.

The whole aspect of warranty-related business practices makes me dizzy. Sure, current owners who have lost any potential advantage in a warranty are offended (and likely pissed). On the other hand, warranty's are largely backward looking promises, and when a business goes under, so do their warranty's for the most part. Should corporate buyers assume that responsibility to maintain brand-loyalty? Probably Not. If a new corporate buyer goes under, the issue of what they did regarding a previous owner's warranty claims probably wasn't the reason.

Interesting thread ... I look forward to reading more.

Best,
Casey
 
westward":19tpqmnu said:
It doesn't take an MBA from Harvard to imagine the general conditions and production decisions a manufacturer might make during the final decline into insolvency.
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If I were in SS position, I would also be reticent to warranty another company's work. I came to the same conclusion as Casey, and bought a Venture 23 from the same dealer. No warranty except I bought from a reputable dealer. Hopefully I will have the normal problems.
 
I don't remember this being mentioned before--Sea Sport is the oldest surviving fiberglass boat builder in the nation, and probably in the World. They started in 1955, and I believe are still family owned. There were glass boat builders before they came along, but these have disappeared along the way.
 
Tired as I am of this thread it has brought up a question I've never really thought about. For all of the concerns about the lack of a hull warranty on C-Dorys now, how many of us have ever had a hull warranty issue of any kind much less a serious hull failure type problem?? I cannot remember more than one or two hull issues on the site in years. The C-Dory Hull warranty covered the hull only; not the engines, electronics, windlass, trailer, etc. etc. so fess up. Who's had a hull repaired under warranty?

Full disclosure. I have. I had a minor water leak into the cabin because of sloppy work on the fresh water fill inlet/vent and under warranty had the inlet hole glassed, redrilled and the inlet resealed. That's it. Pretty trivial. Just an annoyance. My boat is a 2006 so I would have had another couple of years of warranty if Fluid Marine was still in business but the record, at least as far as I can remember, suggests that hull warranty claims were pretty few and far between so I probably have very little to worry about.

I think the odds of actually needing a hull warranty seem pretty remote and I'm just not going to get exercised about something over which I have absolutely no control.
 
In my boat the hull warranty was part of the negotiated purchase price. No different than the windlass or the galley or the V-berth matteress. Now when Fluid Marine went belly up so to speak I expect they proably owed some creditors. What if one of those creditors tried to came and took your windlass. Bottom line is Sea Sport should honor these warranties. They bought the brand. I'm no attorney but it doesn't even seem legal for them not to honor the warranties. With that being said after reading about the reputation of Sea Sport I'd bet if you did have a serious hull warranty issue they would help with getting it correct. I know if they didn't my next purchase depinately would not be a C-Dory.
 
We had a whole boat replaced under warranty. Our 2003 TomCat 24'. Reynolds C-Dory took the boat back, and replaced it with a 2006 TomCat 255. The warranty was a life saver for us.
 
BRAZO, you must work for a newspaper as a reporter - cutting off my statement like that in your quote to make it say something it didn't. The whole quote is:

"A Chinese corporation closed on the sale of the Hummer line today. You think they are going to warranty all the Hummers built in the past by GM. I seriously doubt it, unless that was bargained for in the deal, with the buyer getting a corresponding credit against the purchase price for assuming those liabilities."

Since GM received $150 million for an asset they thought was worth $500 million, according to the article you cite, I assume that the assumption of warranties was a part of the deal. Although, since Barrack Obama assured all GM customers that their warranties would be honored, it could be the taxpayer that is picking up the tab. Anyone got a copy of the asset purchase agreement?

As I have stated before, Fluid probably needed every dime they could get to pay creditors, so they left their customers hanging, instead of negotiating for an assumption of warranties.
 
westward":k0ehrtfk said:
It doesn't take an MBA from Harvard to imagine the general conditions and production decisions a manufacturer might make during the final decline into insolvency.
Click to expand...

While Fluid made decisions to reduce overhead as much as possible, I don't see any indication that they made any attempt to reduce quality of the boat, or to shortcut production procedures.
 
Hello,
I dealt with Fluid Marine towards the end and they did nothing to indicate they were any sort of financial distress. Rich Finley I think was the CEO and everything he did was done with the best of intentions. Since I was involved with a number of different offers on boats that were being priced somewhat aggressively do to dealers losing floor plans and what ever I asked a bunch of questions. I was told from a pretty good source that the money behind Fluid would never be a problem and that the guy involved in computers or software and he was seriously loooaded. I think what happened is that the top of Fluid's management realized things were not going to get better for a looooong time. They just bailed when they got what they got from Sea Sport people to stop anymore financial bleeding. Running out of money was not really the issue in my opinion.
D.D.
 
My 19 angler is officially an '09 built in August "08. I have been through the boat extensively and although she is little I have been really impressed with the attention to detail and care that was taken. The wiring runs in particular look more like what I see on much more expensive boats. The glass work looks great and in a year of use I've seen no problems. Being my first powerboat the learning curve was steep at times and the boat was not at issue. I believe Fluid Marine built nice boats and I for one am not worried about no warranty.

Cheers George
 
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