Rules of the Road...

JamesTXSD":247sbpg2 said:
...
So, has anyone ever come across a square and a triangle daymark on the same side of a channel? Here's one we see almost everyday...

NavAids2E.jpg

Check out the shapes and the colors and tell us what these nav aids are depicting.

Best wishes,
Jim
Click to expand...

The image above shows that you are coming to an intersection of marked channels; in the image, you are currently heading out (green on the right). The next marker (red and green triangle) shows that the upcoming channel would be heading in from open water to the right (red triangle on the right of that channel). The red/green triangle also tells that the upcoming channel is the "main" channel (priority given to shape and color of that channel). Here's another photo that show the situation (daymarks are circled in red)...

GPSAidsE.jpg

The image that shows the two daymarks was taken while the boat was to the right of the red circle, heading towards the lower left. In this particular situation, it is the intersection of the Brownsville Ship Channel (main) and the Port Isabel Channel (secondary).

If you will be traveling the ICW, you will see markers like this frequently where the Intracoastal crosses inlets and ship channels. Depending on your direction of travel, the colors and shapes may "swap" for a time. We ran into this circumstance in the GICW while heading from Apalachicola to Panama City, where it was several miles of "swap" (the ICW sharing the same water with a channel coming in from the Gulf).

And for David on the bell and length of vessel question: yep, I was not aware of that change (wasn't even absolutely sure it was 12m previously, that's why the "rusty gears"). I guess that also answers Robbi's question about the necessity to update the Chapman's once in a while. We carry a bell on Wild Blue... anyone here ever ring their bell every 60 seconds while at anchor in the fog? Gonna be hard to get sleep. :roll:

Interesting stuff here... hope y'all are enjoying the thread.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
We've talked about contacting other boats on the radio as well as horn signals to let them know your intentions. What channel? Then what? And while we're at it, what channel(s) are to be used for non-commercial boat-to-boat radio exchanges?

Hint: "This is Wild Blue, you out there Sea Shift? Hey, Sea Shift, you got your ears on?" Go ahead, laugh... you wouldn't use the radio like that, would you? :wink: Somebody tell us the proper protocol.
 
Jim,

Calls go like this:

"Wild Blue, Wild Blue, Wild Blue, this is Jacari Maru, Jacari Maru, on one-six, over"

You reply:
"Jacari Maru, Wild Blue here, what channel, over?"

I reply:
"Wild Blue, Jacari Maru", go to six-nine, over"

You reply:
"Jacari Maru, Wild Blue, going to six-nine, over"

Both switch channels and converse.

At the end of the call I say,
"This is Jacari Maru, going back to one-six, over"

You say,
"This is Wild Blue, going back to one-six"

Always say the name of the boat you are calling first and your boat name second. When you are finished transmitting, say "over" to turn the conversation over to the other boat.

Pleasure boats should be called on VHF channel 16. If you are in an area controlled by USCG traffic control (like the Puget Sound), commercial boats and ships should be called on the bridge-to-bridge channel 13, as they do not have to monitor 16.

A hint: Hold the mic several inches in front of your mouth, and speak slowly and clearly.
 
A nice summary, Larry. :thup If any new folks are shy about using the radio, that is good protocol. You sound more professional and concise. After hailing on Channel 16 (or the published local use channel), switch to another channel to keep 16 clear for others. Boat-to-boat channels are 68, 69, 71, and 72.

Another question: if you have a newer VHF, you have a button labeled "distress", probably under a cover. What's up with that?

Jim... out
 
Jim,

You have boated in more of the USA than I have. Have you been in areas that use a VHF channel for hailing other than 16?

Radio newbies,

Note that voice communications on VHF channel 70 is PROHIBITED!! Channel 70 is only used by DSC equipped radios for digital calling, DO NOT USE VHF 70 FOR VOICE CALLS.

Even though no license is required to own, install, or operate a VHF radio in the USA, the owner and operator are still required to know and observe the FCC rules for VHF Marine radios. You can be charged Really Big Fines by the FCC for gross violations.
 
Larry:

Great post. Here's how I'd end it if there were significant other VHF traffic:

When the communication is over, Jacari Maru could simply say "Jacari Maru, out": both vessels switching back to 16 is assumed, since that's the default monitoring channel. If Jacari Maru wants to advise of it's switching, it could say "Jacari Maru, going back to one-six, out."

The reason for "out", rather than "over", is that, as far as Jacari Maru is concerned, the communication has ended, and the channel is clear for use by others. Jacari Maru is advising of that fact, and that it is switching back to 16, without regard to what Wild Blue might or might not do.

Wild Blue does not need to say anything in response, if Jacari Maru ends it's transmission with "out". The communication is over, Jacari Maru has switched back to 16, and Wild Blue is presumed to do likewise. If Wild Blue also wants to advise of the switch, it could say "Wild Blue, going back to one-six, out."

If Jacari Maru ends with "over", then the channel has not been cleared for use by others, and presumably it's up to Wild Blue to make another transmission terminating the communication, and clearing the channel. Here, "Jacari Maru, Wild Blue, roger, out" would suffice. Wild Blue acknowledges that Jacari Maru is switching back to 16, and announces that the communication is over and that the channel is clear. Wild Blue is presumed to switch back to 16. If Wild Blue wanted to announce that it was switching back to 16, it could either treat Jacari Maru's transmission as a suggestion with which Wile Blue agrees ("Jacari Maru, Wild Blue, wilco, out."), or as an announcement ("Jacari Maru, Wild Blue switching back to 16, out.").

How about some input on what others would do?

David
 
Larry H":21njd3ul said:
... Have you been in areas that use a VHF channel for hailing other than 16?

Radio newbies,

Note that voice communications on VHF channel 70 is PROHIBITED!! Channel 70 is only used by DSC equipped radios for digital calling, DO NOT USE VHF 70 FOR VOICE CALLS.
Click to expand...

In areas where 16 is very crowded, channel 9 is also used. We frequently dual monitor both.
 
Another question: if you have a newer VHF, you have a button labeled "distress", probably under a cover. What's up with that?
Click to expand...

That button is to enable DSC (Digital Selective Calling). Holding this button down for at least 3-5 seconds (see your manual) activates a distress signal which can be heard by local vessels and the USCG. Your radio sends out a 9 digit code that must programed into your radio after you apply for your MMSI number (Maritime Mobile Services Identities). This number can be issued free from BoatUS. Once your radio is programed, the MMSI number will tell the USCG information about your vessel through a data base. ie type, length, color, name, etc. Also if you have hooked your radio to the NMEA output of your GPS it will send out your lat and long. This all happens on channel 70. If you ever hear a warble warble type sound on your radio that is a DSC signal being transmitted. The lat and long of the vessel in distress will display on your radio.

The other features of DSC enables you to input other vessels MMSI numbers and then call them direct. It eliminates the whole channel 16 back and forth to get to a working channel. There is more to it , read your manual next time you are relaxing at anchor.
 
Another great answer, David. The learned captains here have been generous with sharing their knowledge. Early on in this discussion, there was some talk about sailboats. We learned from the "pecking order" discussion that a sailboat with its engine running is still a powerboat from the Rules point of view. That makes them "one of us." :wink: While it isn't a requirement that you have to know something about sailing to run your boat, those sailor guys do have to know something about making that boat go when the motor isn't running. We also discussed that in many circumstances, a vessel under sail is the stand-on vessel vs a powerboat. Which leads me to another question (and one that I hope will bring an understanding to the "why")...

Why do sailboats zig and zag back and forth? (Please keep your answer related to the physics, not the attitude. :wink: 20 Bonus Points if you can relate it to the Rules of the Road)
 
JamesTXSD":1mjs48sx said:
Why do sailboats zig and zag back and forth? (Please keep your answer related to the physics, not the attitude. :wink: 20 Bonus Points if you can relate it to the Rules of the Road)
Click to expand...

Oh my....they don't "zig and zag", they tack but you knew that....And they do this because they can't sail directly into the wind! The force on the sail is offset by the lateral force by the boat's hull and keel and/or centerboard. This pushes them through the water. And as far as rules of the road, a sailboat on a starboard tack (wind over the starboard side), has the right of way over a sailboat on a port tack. That's why a skipper hollers "Starboard" when in a crowd at a race, just to let all know he has the right of way. Now if two sailboats are on the same tack, the one to leeward has the right of way.... That boat can not maneuver as easily as the one to windward, and that boat has got to stay out of the way....

Charlie
 
Good physics lesson, Charlie. And just to take it a bit further for those who haven't sailed, that "tacking" boat (not to be confused with tacky :lol: ) may have to change course several times to work his way up a channel (especially if the wind is coming right down the channel). At best, most sailboats can sail within 45º of the wind. To relate this to us and the Rules, the sailboat may have no other option than to change course in front of you while you are happily motoring up the channel. Our boats are more maneuverable (the main reason for that oft discussed "pecking order") than the sailboat working its way upwind. So, smile, wave, and try not to wake 'em as you go by (you did know that you ARE responsible for any damage caused by your wake, right?).

A while back, there was some discussion of International Rules vs Inland. Not to get into the differences at this time, but how do we know WHERE that division of rules occurs?

PS - Remember: answer and ASK. In order for this thread to continue, it needs "audience participation." You'll find that when you share you also learn. :D
 
What, nobody wants to answer, 'cuz they don't want to ask a question? :roll:

A nautical chart will show you the demarcation lines where the rules change from international to inland and vice versa. In general, these demarcation lines follow the coastline and cross inlets and bays. On the seaward side of the demarcation lines international rules apply.

If anyone is still playing, here's another question:

You are following the Rules. A boat approaches you on your left, making them the give-way vessel and you the stand-on vessel. Keeping a careful watch, you see that the bearing on their boat is not changing - a sign that you will collide if you continue. You give 5 blasts on the horn... nothing changes. If you change heading or speed, you are no longer "standing on"... what should you do, and who is at fault if you whack boats?
 
I'll venture this based upon my flying experience. If you are considered the "stand-on" vessel during this experience, and you "are, in fact" the most maneuverable vessel, you must "give-way" to the least maneuverable vessel by engaging in a maneuver which displays clear intention to change direction - this means your maneuver can visibly be seen as a corrective action maneuver by the least maneuverable vessel.

You are, I believe, required to give way to any vessel with less maneuverability than yourself.

On edit, I just realized I forgot to answer the second part of your question. The answer is: big boat wins.
 
Hi Norm,

The scenerio I wrote about calls in the dreaded Rule 2...

Rule 2 holds the mariner responsible not only for complying with the Rules but for avoiding collisions. Merely complying with the Rules is not enough. If, in fact, strict compliance with the Rules would result in immediate danger, a departure from the Rules (to the extent necessary to avoid the danger) is required. A mariner who chooses to adhere strictly to the word of the Rules, and thereby causes or fails to avoid a collision that could have been prevented by other action, may not use compliance with the Rules as a defense to liability.

The Rules of the Road were written for collision avoidance. In reality, these are maritime laws. The Catch 22 of Rule 2 is: follow the Rules; if following the Rules would cause you to be in a collision, you must not follow the Rules. Unlike driving a car, in a boat collision, there will be an assessment of percentage of blame... and if you are following all the Rules and are still involved in a collision, you will be assessed some percentage.

Case in point: you are going along fat and happy down a channel. Some idiot in a fast boat comes up behind you and whacks into you... you will be assessed some percentage of the blame "for not avoiding a collision." This would be considered "special circumstances."

So... first of all, follow the Rules. But most importantly, don't collide with another vessel. Seems easy enough, right? :wink

Deciding who is the most maneuverable is often hard to do... who has a deep draft in a narrow channel? Who has a boat that is slow to power up? Who has a motor running, but no steering?

Just avoid the collision.

Someone else's turn for a question, it's my bedtime. :lol:
 
James,
I have, in fact, read that. It is a very common sense rule in collision avoidance and makes sense. However, I would contend that if a captain sees a big boat w/ less maneuverability than his own, and he insists on "playing chicken" with the BIG BOAT because he's "following the rules" - life means far less to him than it does me :mrgreen:
I've enjoyed reading this thread.
Norm
 
Jim,

In your situation the give way vessel has not given way in a timely fashion.

You have warned the give way vessel with 5 blasts and still he comes on.

You now must maneuver to avoid collision. Most likely, slowing down and turning to starboard to allow the other vessel to cross is the best choice.

The rules say avoid turning to port to avoid a vessel on your own port side. They may turn to their starboard at the last minute.

New question: What is a Securite call on the VHF and when should you send it?
 
Securite calls are generally made on VHF Channel 16 as informational alert/warning calls, but then switch another channel for the body of the call (generally). They are not, I don't believe, employed for MAY DAY or other imminent danger calls (I could be wrong). I think you begin the call by indicating this is a "Securite" call on VHF 16 (generally), and then state the body of the call will be broadcast on a different channel.

Also, I believe, if used in another manner, you can turn down your VHF radio broadcast range to limit the range of your call to a "general" immediate vicinity; so as to effectually limit the vessels you make the "Securite" announcement to. Most often I've heard "Securite" calls on coastal radio stations within a limited range e.g. for me that is varying sections along the AICW along Cape Hatterras, Camp LeJeune, restricted areas, and they do quite abit of Naval and Observational marine studies around here by the NOAA. I think they did it for awhile while they were conducting some of the lifting of the canons from Blackbeard's ship Queen Anne's Revenge. I might be wrong, it may have been on occasions when the flyboys are droppping ordinance offshore - you should feel the ground shake and what a wild feeling while in your boat during ordinance drops.
 
Norm,

If a large ship is the give way vessel and a C-Dory is the stand on vessel, and I was in the C-Dory, I would call the ship on VHF 13 and let them know that I would maneuver to avoid them. That way the ship captain knows what to expect of the small boat, and the small boat knows that the ship will not suddenly turn, trying to avoid the small boat.

This should be done well in advance considering that the ship may need several miles to turn or stop. Large ships need to make about 7 knots to maintain steerage.

You are correct in that the more maneuverable boat can more easily avoid the less maneuverable ship, but that maneuver needs to be agreed upon by both vessels.

It is OK to not follow the rules, IF the vessels converse on VHF and agree as to what to do.
 
Norm,

Your answer is correct. A Securite (pronounced----say-cure-a-tay) call is to warn other vessels. In the Northwest, we use the call when transiting a narrow current pass, or to warn of a hazzard in the water.

Example: Securite, Securite, This is Jacari Maru, a 40 foot power vessel transiting Jackson Narrows eastbound, repeat, transiting Jackson Narrows eastbound. Any concerned traffic answer on one-six.

New question: What is a Pon-Pon radio call and when is it used.
 
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