Rosborough vs. C-Dorys and Ranger Tugs?

S

Sea Wolf

New member
I derailed Byrdman's travelogue thread with some thoughts about the impact of his and others interest in Rosborough boats and the fact that three of our C-Dory dealers are now also carrying the Rosborough line, so I'm moving those posts over to this new thread.

Sorry, Byrdman, for the temporary derailment, but the impact of these developments is significant, I believe!

I'll erase the other posts on the original thread. Others may wish to do the same and transfer them here.

Joe.

******************************************************************************

Patrick-

Congradulations on your new boat, Byrdman!

Looks like you've got a good case of that $100,000 two(or more)-footitis fever!

Do I see another Rosborough in the shed behind yours?

Has Les become a Rosborough dealer?

Does Dusty have one yet?

Do we need for form a sub-chapter of Ros-Brats?

Do we need to start a comparison thread On the Rosborough RF-246 with the CD-25, C-Ranger 25 Tug, and the CD-29??

I think Les has this already all figured out, already!!!

Joe.
_________________
Sea Wolf
1987 CD-22 Cruiser
Lake Shasta, California

***************************************************************************

Grumpy wrote:
Joe,
At least 3 more.........

Merv

***************************************************************************

I'm not surprised!

I think it's a better boat in many ways than the others!

And a very high-quality one as well!

Wouldn't be surprised if many of the potential C-Dory 25 and C-Ranger 25 sales turned into Rosborough RF-246's!......

.......and part of the reason will certainly be the quality control issues that have been experienced with the others.

I'm not trying to be a heretic to the C-Dory clan here, just reading the writing on the wall through a "loaner" crystal ball that works as a magnifying glass for old guys like me!

The Rosborough Revolution of 2007?

Joe

****************************************************************************


Sorry, can't stop the wheels from turning tonight!

In some simple ways, the Rosborough RF-246 seems like an in-between compromise between the semi-dory planing C-Dory design and the displacement/semi-planing C-Ranger 25 Tug.

I remember Dr. Bob Austin (Thataway) made a comparison of the Rosborough RF-246 designs with a C-Dory once, so I thought I'd dig it up for interesting reading for our members.

*************************************
(Sat. Jul 15, 2006 9:11 pm)

"I suspect that he is asking to compare a semi dory and a Down East type of boat. The lobster boats, Duffy, and the nearest to the C Dory is the Rosborough 246. There are a fair amount of cross over between these two boats--and some Rosborough owners have been C Dory owners.

The Down East type of boat is often straight run aft, flat buttocks with a round chine, , and a moderate V foreward. It is also a semidisplacement boat. My personal opinion is that all in all the C Dory is a more stable and better sea boat.

The Rosborough often are much slower than the C Dory and are run at displacement speeds--with twins up to 15 to 17 knots and occasionally with large engines up to 30 knots. My feeling is the C Dory is more effecient in use of fuel. But the Down East boats are less likely to pound.
They are good boats, and I had considered one when I was making the decision on the Tom Cat 255. I am still a member of their list and plan on making a cruise with this group later this year.

It is a little like comparing a C Dory and A Sea Sport--both have some good features. The Rosborough has pilot house doors on the side--I see this as a negitive, because of water intrusion. The Rosborough has perment foreward facing seats, the V Berth is slighly shorter than the C Dory, and the head is more cramped than the 25 or Tom Cat--and below the helm console. The side deck access is about the same as C Dory. There is an extended cabin top over the aft cockpit--and a high and low freeboard model.

There are a number of other down east boats--but the Rosborough comes to mind when thinking of comparison with the C Dory.
_________________
Bob Austin

*************************************

P.S. (from Sea Wolf):

1.) Did you know that the six US dealerships for Rosborough boats include three C-Dory dealers? --- E.Q. Marine (Les), Cutter Marine (Maryland), and Wefing's (Fla.)?

2.) Rosborough only produces 40-50 boats a year, according to their website.

3.) I wonder how a surge in interest in Rosborough boats will affect the resale value of similar sized C-Dorys?

4.) I may be wrong on some of this, but can't stop thinking about the impact of this possible set of developments.

5.) Please don't kill the messenger!

Joe.

****************************************************************************
 
Joe, How do you move a post from one thread to another?

John

Also, I think one needs to keep in mind that the main market for all these types of boats is the Baby Boomer generation. Sooooo likely all of these types will experience a surge in market share. An increase in one model does not necessarily dictate a reduction in sales of another model.

John
 
John-

To move a post, I simply copy it with the edit function, then in a second window post it under the new thread,

Once I've seen it posted and edit it, I then go back to the original post and deleat all the content and insert "Post moved to new thread".

There was a "X" delete option on most threads, originally, but it seems to have disapeared or deleated itself.

Bill would know................!

Joe.
 
All fine boats. You pay your money, you make your choices. Realistically, I don't think you'll see a lot of C-Dory folks making that switch. No question the Rosborough is a very nice boat... it was before this thread, and some of us considered it as a likely candidate in our boat-buying decisions. Weight, initial cost, and operating costs vary with all these boats and will factor in. While Les is a new Rosborough dealer, it seems that many dealers carry more than one line of boats... and dealers will change lines as their customer base and/or relationship with any particular manufacturer evolves.

Byrdman made the switch based on a desire for a particular layout. There will always be something that triggers a person's "hot button" and encourages them to plunk down their money. Hey, he could have had Old Growth Dave take a 25 and add another 3 or 4 feet to the cockpit! :twisted:

Years ago, we switched from one motorhome brand to another... we were no longer welcome at the former brand's gatherings, even though we had friends there. Nice to know that this won't be the situation with the Brats. Byrdman will always be welcome at my dock or on my boat... and I have to salute his class in keeping the previous thread on-topic. :thup

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Man does not live by...or on one boat alone... Just like my lovely durable wife of about 30 years who has two feet....and about 200 pairs of shoes... they all have a special purpose in our lives.. Man I love that blue eyed Blonde...and can't wait to get back home to her arms.

And look at the folks I have met and enjoyed since owning the 3 C-Dory boats, 3-4 years of flying out to the Seattle Boat Show/Hawthorne/Seattle Lock & Dam cruises, Blakley Island Gathering, Bellingham Gathering, Gulf Coast Gatherings, Cumberland River Gatherings, Alabama River Gatherins ....... has brought into my life.

Basically, Sherryl and I made a descision to spend money on boats that we could trailer and travel with...instead of a second home on the beach or mountains. Never looked back on that call. Oh what I would have missed if we had bought that condo in Perdido Pass. :hug BOAT & C-Brats :hug2 :love

And that aint talking about the road trips in between.


Byrdman
 
Pat,

Looking at the 246 Wheelhouse model you have about the same amount of cockpit space I have on the 27'. Looks like an ideal boat for your uses! Had I the money I would likely look at that boat myself as it would be a great boat for my needs. I like the extra room in the cockpit for fishing and the cabin is sweet!

Let us know how the performance is on that boat. Top speed with the big twins, etc. How well it handles the rough stuff would be nice too. Maybe when I get rid of a few toys I can look at upgrading to a newer boat.

:shock:
 
I was on Byrdman's boat briefly when I was at EQ, but I forgot to take note of how it was constructed. So, here's a question for Pat that relates to the C-Dories of late: Is the cabin molded or constructed? Are shelves provided within the cabinets, etc. or is it a DIY project?

Warren
 
Not sure I can add a lot more to what Joe, brought over from a prior post. Nothing that I say is a negititive toward either boats. For us the speed was definately an issue. (both having to go up in hp to get in the 20's, and the problems handling the boats down wind/waves in seas, espcially at higher speeds. Semidisplacement boats , especially those with deep forefoots can get squirley at high speeds down seas--this was also a decision in the Tom Cat vs the Glacier Bay Catmaran.) Another issue was cost for the second boat. The weight of the Rosborough 246 is considerably more than the CD 25. I don't like the side doors on the Rosborough. The length of the bunk is a bit of a problem for 6'2" folks. The fit and finish seemed to be about the same. There are certainly some pluses on the Rosborough and it is a fine boat. For us the C Dory 25 was better. There are folks who had C Dories and went to Rosborough's and visa versa. The Rosborough folks are claiming some good fuel consumption numbers--BUT they make the common mistake of gallons an hour, instead of miles a gallon. I haven't seen many posts with calibrated fuel flow meters--and that is the only way you can measure fuel effeciency. .. I am going to continue to follow the Rosboroughs. They are obviously spooling up to widen their market, which has been relitatively localized in the past. They also offer I/O in gas and I/O in diesel, which are appealing to many folks. (but not to me).
 
Having spent a couple hours climbing around EQ's new boat line (including Byrdmans new baby), my initial impressions of build quality are pretty positive. Functionally there are a couple things I don't like, but these fall into the category of personal preference.

My list of cons:

The v-berth is way too small for such a large boat. If I'm stepping up in size/cost by this amount, I want enough room up front for two large adults, and it just ain't there. Yes, it's larger than a CD22, and perhaps on par with a CD25 - I didn't take out the tape. Yes, there is less head banging given the step down. But usable length and width seems far less than the gold standard in this size boat - the TomCat has enough room for me, the misses and two dogs. I could even fatten up by another 50 pounds or so, and fit in there with room to spare...

The cockpit...yes, it's large and beautiful, with hatches that seem to far exceed the quality and construction of C-Dory hatches in the 25 and Tomcat that I've seen. However, the cockpit suffers from the same "problem" as the larger C-Dorys, and most every other boat out there. I just can't get beyond the comfort factor I have in a CD22 with those high gunnels, created by standing on the bottom of the hull. Yes, one can add rails to provide support, but you still lose the easy and safe access over the edge, which is so handy for rinsing one's hands, dealing with the netted fish in the water, etc. As should be obvious, this "con" is nothing unique to the RF246 - both the CD25 and Tomcat suffer from it as well. Quite frankly, this is an area where I'll suggest Cape Cruiser spanked C-Dory in design; the now "discontinued" CC26, with the CD22 inspired flat cockpit, was a huge selling point over the CD25 to me.

My initial thought on the cockpit door is not positive, although the design may appeal to many. For me, I'd prefer to utilize the space that is covered by the sliding door, or on the door itself. There seem to be more options in this regard with a swinging door.

My pros:

This boat seems incredibly stout. One gets the impression walking around it, that it's built like the proverbial brick sh**house.

It's very plain and utilitarian, a trait that attracts many to C-Dory.

The rub rails are massive and thick - the skimpy C-Dory rails pale in comparison. I'm guessing 3-4" tall, and 1-2" deep.

The roof, including the "patio cover" portion, is very beefy. Whether one wishes to place a Byrdman Sofa up top, or simply walk around up there on occasion, it's more than up to the task.

As mentioned earlier, the hatches are a thing of beauty. Large, with virtually zero flex.

The side doors seem to be a huge benefit. When seated at the helm, it's easy to see how functional they would be, particularly in windy conditions at the dock. Whenever they are brought up here, folks seem to be concerned with leak potential. However, in looking through the RF-246 Owners Group over at Yahoo, I was unable to find any mention of this being a problem.

None of the above addresses performance, and I'm anxiously awaiting some real world numbers from Byrdman once he gets the bottom wet. Still, I'm not inclined to say it's a boat I'd ever be interested in...but then again, when one owns the perfect boat already, it's easy to be critical. :mrgreen:
 
I was able to go for a ride in Byrdmans 246 today and I was quite impressed with the ride and handling. it was smooth as glass so was not able to see what it would do in a chop but it is a sweet boat. he has twin 115 Yammys on her and with 9 people, six of which were on the husky side , we took her to 29 knotts . it was nice running at about 8 or 9 knotts. smooth and quiet.I would give it a two :thup :thup
 
I took a ride on an RF-246 with a Honda 225 on a bracket. It had a fuel
flow meter. At perhaps 20mph, it used an amazing amount of fuel...
20gph, I believe. Either a Honda 225 shouldn't be put on an RF-246 or
something else was wrong with that setup.

I am under the impression that a 150hp 4-stroke on a bracket is
the best setup for the RF-246. Never got good fuel numbers on
that setup. Also, it is pretty rare on the used market. 115hp seems
more common, or else stern drive power - usually a 3.0L. I heard of
one with a big block, though!

Mike
 
The Canadian Coast Guard has a bunch of them outfitted with twin 150s as patrol boats . We rigged a single on our first one . We will probably go twins on the next . At Wefings its all about variety and choice !
Marc
 
Does anyone know if a hard top extension has been done for a CD-22 or CD-25 such as offered on the Rosborough as a standard option?
 
People have made frames and put various covers on them. You do not want an "extension" of the hard top, because it will not give you standing head room in the 25--it might be OK in the 22..but you have the "buble" in the top--I don't see any reason for it. The camper camvas works fine. A good camper canvas allows for a slot between the hard top over the cabin and the bimini--in hot weather this allows air flow, and keeps it cooler under the cockpit cover. The hard top will not allow this--and I see this as a disadvantage.
 
JonS":3eceosly said:
Does anyone know if a hard top extension has been done for a CD-22 or CD-25 such as offered on the Rosborough as a standard option?
Click to expand...

In 1995 C-Dory offered as an option for the original 25 Cruise Ship a hard cockpit cover. The six original 25s have a nearly flat roof. The price for the cover in 1995 was listed in the brochure for $2800. I have never seen one, but I suspect it was raised somewhat above the cabin roof to provide headroom.

At one of the Seattle boat shows I asked Scot Reynolds if perhaps the mold for the top was still around. I envisioned a roof that was retractable and able to be moved over the cabin roof. There is room to spare between the back of the cabin and the radar tower and I figured a slide mechanism would be fairly easy to make. He said he didn't have the mold but could build me a cockpit cover for "about $6800". Needless to say, I lost interest in a duplicate of the original. In the time since I have also lost interest in having the cockpit covered at all.
 
I liked the idea of an extended hard top, but what Dr. Bob mentioned is an important, uncomfortable surprise - stale, hot air accumulates under those fixed tops, esp. right at the aft cabin/foretop area. Much of the cockpit cannot be well ventilated. As he mentioned, raising the top with openings allows cool air to enter the cockpit.

I am very happy now with the canvas top since it is foldable and removable, but mine does not have the raised opening of which Dr. Bob speaks. That is why I know about the stale air from a fixed front cockpit cover.

John
 
The removable pannel is one of the differences between the "factory" and a custom canvas camper back. Of course our canvas guy has been boating on the Gulf since he was a month old, so he realizes the importance of the ventillation. The other feature which goes with this, is that the Bimini top is free standing--does not have to be attatched to the cabin top. I am considering making an adaptor for the CD 25 "factory" canvas I have--which will allow free flow. Just using a piece of awning rail, with some support, raised up will porbably do the job. I have an 8 foot piece of Aluminum awning rail and may just try and make an adaptor. I have added extra railings on the outer part of the cabin top and we might tie the awning railing extrusion to these railings. Aluminum awning railing is available at almost any RV supply store.
 
Back
Top