Road Treks vs. Class C

[colbysmith]

Just looking for some advice or experience with Road Treks. Quite some time ago we had a 31' Winnebago Class A, and we loved it. But as with many things, we outgrew it as our kids got older and our lifestyle changed. Also, I'm a remarried widower, and my new wife isn't as interested in the motorhome lifestyle that my late wife and I figured some day we'd be back too. However, as I/we take longer trips towing the C-22, I'm starting to think a used Road Trek might make for a nice tow vehicle for traveling across the country. (Vs. my Toyota Highlander, which has proven to do a good job towing the C-22, but isn't necessarily the best chasis for towing long distances, nor the most comfortable for someone 6' tall. I absolutely hate the center dashboard console all the newer cars seem to have...knee knockers!) Then looking at some prices, seems like one can get a 23'-25' Class C in the same price range. I know there would be more room in the Class C, but the Road Trek (Class B) is probably going to be a little more maneuverable and easier for parking/storage and probably better mileage.

As I said, I currently tow my boat with a Toyota Highlander, which does a good job. But it's not the most roomiest vehicle, and while I could "camp" in the boat along the road, having a Class B or C RV would provide a little more comfort for long drives. I have not seen any Road Treks yet, but hope to visit a dealer in Rockford or Milwaukee in the next month to get a eyeball on one. So, just wondering with this background, if anyone has any advice or experience in regards to travel in a Road Trek. Thanks in advance. Colby

 

[ssobol]

I have wanted to get a RV based on the Sprinter van chassis. This would make a good combination with a C-Dory IMO. With the diesel engine it should have not problem towing a CD-22.

 

[Sunbeam]

I have wanted to get a RV based on the Sprinter van chassis. This would make a good combination with a C-Dory IMO. With the diesel engine it should have not problem towing a CD-22.

I have not checked on the "pure vans," but on many of the smaller Sprinter-based RV's, they are not rated to tow over 3,500# until you get into the very newest ones, which I think may be 5,000# (but I'm not sure). Something to check anyway.

I tow with a camper van (Class B van), and I think it makes a fantastic C-Dory tow machine. I had to choose a tow vehicle when I got my 22, as I had nothing suitable. I considered pickup trucks (with or without campers), SUV's, Class C's.... you name it. After a lot of thinking and looking, I ended up with a 3/4-ton Class B van (not a Road Trek, but reasonably similar). And am I ever glad I did. There really hasn't been any time I wish I had one of the other smaller rigs (such as a pickup truck or SUV).

At first I thought "Oh, the gas mileage is going to be awful." But then as I read many towing threads, I found that no matter what people got when not towing, it was nearly always "12" when towing (except for certain diesel pickups, but they were not on my list). And as it has turned out, I get.... oh, about 12.5 when towing, and a nice 16-18 when not towing. And the vehicle is plenty beefy and tows wonderfully. I suppose if one were going to not tow a majority of the time, then something that would get better mileage when not towing might be nice. OTOH, for an RV, 18 is pretty sweet -- I'm going to miss that if/when I got to something larger, such as a C.

So, I really, really like the van, but.... as time goes on, I find I would like to get something a bit more commodious. If I were going "out and back" from home, the van would be ideal. But I spend a lot of time on the road, so it gets a bit cramped due to "background stuff" I carry since I'm not going "out and back" to home.

I have checked out quite a few Class C's, some B+'s, and some diesel and gas A's. What I have found on the C's and gas A's, is that you have to keep a close eye on the rear axle weight rating, and really run the numbers (vs. trusting others). Because by the time you figure in the overhang (they usually have quite a bit), the 300# or so of tongue weight grows to more like 500#, and on some of the C's or gas A's in particular, that would put you over the rear axle weight rating (even if you were still comfortably in the "tow" rating or the GVWR or GCWR). Just something to check and calculate.

I'm currently shopping for a B+, C, or .... somewhat less... an A (with the A and no toad -- because of towing the boat -- I might feel a bit limited in my explorations).

At any rate, I can highly recommend the Class B van based on my own experience - especially if you are operating out of a home base and on shorter trips. However, it depends on how you stop, and how you like to "camp." Because to me, a B is more like a super comfortable car that you can sleep, cook, and etc in. For that it is fantastic. And it's reasonably roomy for short periods of time and if you don't have a lot of "background" stuff along (off-season clothes, etc.) Parking is a snap, in any regular parking spot (when not towing; towing I'm still 45' long).

But for more than that it can be slightly cramped, and you may prefer a C or larger for that reason. Ironically (as compared to a bigger RV), I'm comfortably/easily below the rear axle rating (and all other ratings) even crammed with stuff and two people, because the chassis is less overloaded with "house" to begin with, and the overhang (distance from rear axle to hitch ball) is only 4.5' -- short for an RV.

B's can also be relatively expensive for what you get (because most/all the same systems are still in them). On the other hand, there don't tend to be roof seams and that sort of "house" thing to worry about -- because the body is all/most "as built by company that builds millions of them" (i.e. Ford), and not a "few off" made by an RV company. I like how on the B/C you get a cab with shoulder belts, air bags, power windows, etc.

PS: Although the 22 can make a great boaterhome, I prefer to use the tow vehicle when on the road. It's just a quirk, but I don't like "land dirt" on my boat(s). Maybe that comes from weeks in boatyards trying to keep the (previous boats) clean (futile!) Plus, I travel sans boat sometimes, and then I still have my turtle shell with me in the form of the tow vehicle. It can be a slight nuisance in either having to move things or having two of things (dishes, etc.); but on the other hand having two sets of certain things gives you built in spares, so it's not all bad (but a bit more complicated).

 

[colbysmith]

Sunbeam, may I ask what make/model of "Camper Van" you have. Again, I'm not looking for something to do a lot of "camping" in, but rather something a little more comfortable for towing the boat on long trips. To be honest, this thought reared it's head as I think about towing my boat out west next summer. I can "camp" in the boat while trailered along the way, but realized I could probably have better "climatic" control in a 4 or 6-wheeled RV for sleeping at night, plus just a little more drivers area seating space, not to mention maybe a little beefier tow vehicle than the Highlander. Road Trek came to mind, but only because that was the only "Class B" I knew about. You are correct about mileage. Even my Highlander gets about 12 mpg when towing the boat. (But the regular mileage beats the hell out of the mileage my previous Excursion got!)

 

[flagold]

I have owned two Roadtrek 19's (Popular) and they are exceptional in quality and in road-towing. I've towed the CD 22, and Jeeps across the country numerous times. Mine were on the Dodge frame and if you can get one (I checked recently and there are a few on the market with relatively low miles) I think you'd be happier than the new ones on the Chevy frame (very low to the ground). The 17 would be about perfect. We couldn't find one locally so bought a conversion van (2002 Dodge 2500 (same truck frame as the R-17 - the 19's are 3500 series trucks) for $3400 with the same basic setup. The 3500's and 2500's both used the 318 and if you make sure to get the road rear end (or change it) you'll get between 15-17 depending how you drive. I put well over 100K on my first two with no problems and I can't tell you how many people I met with 300+K rolling with no problems. Good luck!

 

[Sunbeam]

Sunbeam, may I ask what make/model of "Camper Van" you have.

I have a Sportsmobile. It has a pop-top somewhat reminiscent of the old VW Westfalia, but it pops straight up vs. in a wedge shape. Many of the Sportsmobiles are 4WD, but mine is 2WD. It's on a Ford E250 "regular" wheelbase, so I'm only 17' long when not towing (and only 7' high with the top popped down for traveling). I think some folks put them in garages, if that's a consideration (but they are very close to 7', so don't take it as a for-sure without measuring).

The pop top has pro's and cons. It's probably why I can get 18 mpg on the highway (not towing). I also get on ferries not overheight, etc. The pop top arrangement means there is not only a double bed up top, but two separate beds (upper and lower) that feel surprisingly private from each other. OTOH, it's noisier with the top up if you stop over in a rest area or something (I don't pop the top then - it's completely possible to do everything with it down, except for stand up). There is about 6'7" headroom with the top up, and it feels like a nifty treehouse then, which is fun - especially in a neat camp spot. Also the five screened windows up there cool things down quickly and allow nice airflow (when they are open). I think there are a few more "creaky" noises on rough roads due to the top hardware/springs.

I was looking for a used-but-well-kept vehicle, and I wanted the Ford chassis (just because I am more familiar with them, and they are used more on larger motorhomes, in case I moved up). I set my "oldness" cut off year at 1997, because in Ford that was the first year for passenger-side airbag, and the more modern engine that uses OBDII (can't go without my Scangauge!). A friend bought a 2000 or 2001 Chevy based B+ and it did not have airbags (came as a surprise to him); apparently they were optional on Chevy cutaways even up until then, so something to watch for. You'll notice that when looking at B's: Certain brands tend to favor certain chassis makers. As Flagold said, traditionally, Road Treks were on the Dodge chassis (with occasional Chevys); Sportsmobiles tend to be on the Ford, etc. Road Treks use a dropped floor, so they get headroom without a higher roof. But as Flagold said, watch the undercarriage on newer Road Treks - I have not measured, but it looks like they have some storage/fairing that could make it easier to get high-centered.

With the 17' overall length (not towing), the "RB" van I have parks just like a car when not towing. OTOH, the "EB" 19-footer has more space inside. There are other little details such as that Ford uses the same wheelbase for their 17' and 19' vans, so you have more overhang with the 19-er. Chevy has a long wheelbase for their long van, so less overhang, but larger turning circle. Dodge of course has gone to the Sprinter, so that's a different beast now. I would be very interested in one if the older ones could tow more.

Another factor for me was that (since I still owned my "normal" car, and since it was all a bit of an experiment), I wanted to find a less-expensive vehicle. So I looked for a well-maintained, clean camper van at the older end of my "acceptable" year range. I found a one-owner, always Mobil 1, only used on trips type of van; it was pleasantly "economical" to buy and has worked out well. I know it's a completely individual thing, so what works for one might be torture for another, but at least this gives you one perspective. Compared to a (bare) pickup or SUV, I'm in the lap of luxury and happy as a clam -- yet I still run around with it just like I would a car. I wouldn't be looking for something else if I were only using it occasionally. But, other folks would probably be running to buy something different, so you never know!

 

[JamesTXSD]

We have owned a lot of different RVs, but not a Class C (although we had rented them a couple times). When we ordered our C-Dory, we intended to tow with a Leisure Travel Class B - one ton chassis, 8,400 tow rating. After ordering the boat, we discovered that the all-up, on the trailer, weight of the CD-25 was about a ton more than the factory listed. We decided to get the diesel pickup to comfortably handle the weight of the 25.

That said, I think a Class B campervan would be ideal for towing and traveling with a 22. We really miss ours. It had all the same amenities of a Class A motorhome... you could just reach most of 'em from the driver's compartment. :wink:

We did tow our Corsair trimaran (longer than the C-Dory, but not as heavy) and our Com-Pac SunCat (sailboat) with the Leisure Travel, and it it did a great job!

After decades of RVing, here's my honest evaluation of the Class B campervans: one of the best ways to travel. Depending on the floorplan, you have a fridge, microwave, bathroom with shower, galley, TV, and bed. In our Leisure Travel, the couch in back made into a king size bed. The downside: if you are used to having room to move around with a larger RV, you soon find the Class Bs get to feeling small if you spend extended time in them. The longest trip we did with our Class B was about a month (south Texas to the Florida Keys), and we were ready to have more room when we got back. By comparison, we have spent up to 6 months on our C-Dory. The big disadvantage of the Class B becomes more obvious if one person gets up earlier than the other: you have to make up the bed into a couch each morning, so there is no place for the early riser to sit, other than the driver's compartment until the other person is up. Some floorplans have twins in back that make into a settee, so you do have some flexibility.

We used our Class B as our second daily driver for several years after we retired. It got about 14 mpg not towing, about 10 when towing. The gas tank was big enough that you still had good range. Comfort while on the road was outstanding. You could park it anywhere - every campground/RV park could accommodate you, or it was easy to boondock in a Wal-Mart lot or a casino.

Different manufacturers have different interior heights. We liked Leisure Travel over RoadTrek because it had a full marine type bathroom without having to remove floor panels or use the aisle as part of the shower. Snug, but workable (we knew we'd do fine with the CD-25 after having the Class B).

Class Bs are more expensive to build than Class Cs because they are built from the inside, where Class Cs have the walls set on the floor. You definitely get more room and more space for your dollar with the Class C. I think the Class B has better road manners that most Class Cs.

Good luck with the decisions.
Jim B.

PS When we were shopping for a Class B, the RoadTrek, Leisure Travel, and Pleasure-Way were all very similar.

 

[RobMcClain]

We really like the Class B vans but are concerned about the towing capacity for a Venture 23. I haven't weighed our boat on a scale, but definitely would before buying one since I suspect a Class B will not competently and safely tow the extra weight of a Venture. As an alternative we have considered the Tiger Provan. It seems to be cross between a Class B van and a traditional camper. You pick the basic vehicle chassis and the company then builds the camper onto the frame so you have the walk thru capability. You can get a Silverado 3500 chassis, diesel power, and Allison transmission (if so desired) so towing is easy. They also build on the Ford F350 and Ram 3500. They are all rather pricey though... http://www.tigervehicles.com

Rob

 

[Sunbeam]

We really like the Class B vans but are concerned about the towing capacity for a Venture 23.

I think you are right to be concerned enough to not assume all would be fine; on the other hand, you might be okay. I could handily tow more weight with my Class B van IF I did not have it packed for long-term traveling (i.e. if I were going out-and-back frequently from a home base). So, with reality based calculations (vs. salesperson's assurances, etc.), you might come out okay. I'd guess you might be 1,000# more, all-up, with your boat than my 22 (?).

Those Tigers are nice! I like their layout, construction.... everything. Unfortunately most of the older (more affordable) ones are on the Astro Van chassis, which wouldn't suit for me towing the 22. And as you found, the new ones are expensive (not that they are not worth it).

 

[colbysmith]

Jim, the Leisure Travel sounds like another one I should learn more about. I went to their website and see various models. The price range I'm looking in is probably around $20,000. Preferably late model with low mileage.... The area Road Trek dealers seem to be early to mid 2000 models with close to 80,000 miles for that price range. I believe I remember a 1997 with 150,000 miles for less than $10,000.... I'm just really starting to look, so not sure I really have a good idea of what price ranges will get what. For about that same price ($20,000) I know Cruise America has several used Class C 23 footers for sale. But I just don't think I need anything that big for what I want to use it for...thus why I'm wondering more about the Class B. And of course I want something mechanically sound as I plan to tow cross country with it. Colby

 

[T.R. Bauer]

I was in the same boat years ago and settled on a 24 foot E-450 Winnebago with the V10. I have put around 60,000 miles on it and it has been flawless. It gets 10-11 most of the time all by itself and 8-9 with the boat in tow. I know that is not very good, but that is what you can expect with a gas powered class C. It does tow my CD 22 very well and has plenty of room for our family.

 

[BRAZO]

We are stuck in the middle - we have a 2006 Winnebago View on the Sprinter chassis. The tow capacity is 3500 and our CD22 is #5000. So, last year I used our 2010 F150 to tow the boat to the PNW and left the CD22 out there. Sleeping in the boat on the road and the truck on the way home was not ideal but it worked. I would have loved to buy a "newer" View that has a #5000 tow capacity but the deal that we got on the 2006 View was just to good to turn down (30k miles lightly used for $35k - new are around $100k).

So, the plan will be to tow the boat to a distant location and leave it there for a few years. Then we'll use the motorhome to "visit" the boat. In a few years we will retire and then leave the truck and boat in storage in different locations.

It would be MUCH better to have a motorhome to tow, but the cost difference just didn't make sense.

Been in Arizona, California, Nevada for the last 3 weeks on the motorhome and I'm not looking forward to flying home this weekend...I've heard about that snow on the ground.

Good luck in the search.

 

[colbysmith]

Take your time coming home. Minus 5 forecast for the high on Mon or Tue...

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Here's another option to consider.



It's about 1200 pounds dry. I know there is weight on the back of the truck, but it doesn't impact handling (NO SWAY!!!!), I still have great acceleration, and there is a minimal hit to mileage. I probably lost 1 to 2 mpg.

 

[Grumpy]

We have a "newer" 2013 view with that nice Mercedes turbo-diesel and in the last year have driven it from WA around the country to ME and back plus numerous other trips over the cascades and into the rockies. (about 14000 miles)

Very much like a CD experience, not too big, not too small...just right and 15-16 mpg.
When we had a CD-22 (and later the RF245) we towed everywhere with a Chevvy Duramax/Allison and also used it for our camper trailer. 8 -10 mpg but solid as a rock with BIG brakes on the truck and Electric over Hydraulic on the trailer.

In Europe (high gas/diesel prices) the Sprinter is used for just about everything including ambulances which are about the same weight as an RV chassis.
The advantage of this type of vehicle is that you can go almost anywhere without needing a "TOAD". The emphasis is on the "almost" so inevitably we started thinking about a small vehicle to tow along.

As someone pointed out earlier, its not just the theroretical towing capacity you have to think about. You need to know your REAL loaded weigh & distribution of the RV plus that of your intended tow vehicle to be sure that you do not exceed axle ratings. IMO even with the "newer" 5000lb capacity you are very close to the limit with a Sprinter.

Add to that the fact that we very soon found out that that the handling of the Sprinter is very much improved if you spend a few boat units on enhanced springs, sway bar and suspension kits. The RV body (even empty) is very heavy and overhangs considerably.

The Mercedes turbo diesel is a great engine but it has about 1/2 the power of a Duramax so dont expect to to go roaring up steep grades at 60 +. Add 5000 lbs to that and you will go even slower.

The Sprinter has ABS and other "Smart" systems to help you stop in one piece. Some of these have to be adjusted if you fit the suspension enhancements. I am not sure how well they would work with a limit load behind but my feel is that you would need adjustable electric/hydraulic on the trailer.

Bottom line for us is "couldya" vs "wouldya" and my feel is that for a short distance we probably "could" but for anything else it would be better to have something with a much bigger safety margin. Apart from safety I imagine that reliability would suffer and Sprinter/ Mercedes repair costs would make even a boatyard owner blush.

Great vehicle, wish it would float

Merv

 

[T.R. Bauer]

I just looked at the specs for the 2014 View and I don't think there is any practical way on earth you could tow a 5000 pound CD 22 with it as it only has a 15250 pound GCVR. If it is similar in tonnage to my 24 foot Winni, it crosses the scale at very close to 10,000 pounds when loaded lightly. Just so you are aware, and the primary reason I bought this particular coach over others (I really looked hard at the small diesel coaches), is that it is relatively light and has a GVW of 14,500 and a GCVR of 22,000 pounds. If you do the math and updated the wimpy 5,000 pound hitch, you could tow a considerable load on the E450 chassis and still have a wide margin for safety. Gas mileage? Well it gets 10 most of the time. And, that is pretty horrible! Of course, this is more than double of what our boats get and if you look at it through that lense, it is a beacon of ecomony

 

[breausaw]

Here's another option to consider.



It's about 1200 pounds dry. I know there is weight on the back of the truck, but it doesn't impact handling (NO SWAY!!!!), I still have great acceleration, and there is a minimal hit to mileage. I probably lost 1 to 2 mpg.

Do you ever hit your head on the low door frame? What's the manufacturer? We have been considering putting a simlur setup on or F250 diseal, it has overload springs. I would think for towing this would be the way to do.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Jay, one learns quickly that you stoop to go in, and you back out of the camper. It's really not a problem, in fact, the short door adds to strength by having a solid lintel. The builder is Four Wheel Camper (FWC - http://www.fourwh.com/ ) in Woodland California. Another similar, and very good pop top is made by All Terrain Camper (ATC) in Sacramento. Both build campers that are off road capable.

Your overload springs are not needed on a F250, but it never hurts. There isn't a great deal of difference between driving with the camper on, or the camper off. No handling issues whatsoever. Dry weight is about 1200 for my configuration. I added solar, a furnace, compressor refrigerator and a few other goodies. We can pull the boat or Airstream with the camper on.

Two forums to get a lot of info on pop ups are: Wander the West, and Expedition Portal. You get to read the good and the bad about them here. One builder that has just received a nasty black eye is Phoenix. There's a thread on ExPo about one person's experience, complete with photos.

Steve

 

[breausaw]

Jay, one learns quickly that you stoop to go in, and you back out of the camper. It's really not a problem, in fact, the short door adds to strength by having a solid lintel. The builder is Four Wheel Camper (FWC - http://www.fourwh.com/ ) in Woodland California. Another similar, and very good pop top is made by All Terrain Camper (ATC) in Sacramento. Both build campers that are off road capable.

Your overload springs are not needed on a F250, but it never hurts. There isn't a great deal of difference between driving with the camper on, or the camper off. No handling issues whatsoever. Dry weight is about 1200 for my configuration. I added solar, a furnace, compressor refrigerator and a few other goodies. We can pull the boat or Airstream with the camper on.

Two forums to get a lot of info on pop ups are: Wander the West, and Expedition Portal. You get to read the good and the bad about them here. One builder that has just received a nasty black eye isimulix. There's a thread on ExPo about one person's experience, complete with photos.

Steve

Thanks for info Steve,

Have looked at couple similar comper configurations so will do some research on these, thanks again.

 

[thataway]

I owned two vans/RV's which I towed c Dory's with (and another 1 ton Dodge, back in the 70's which was cut in half and expanded out to 8' by Far West for a 16 passenger bus, with a bubble top, which we made into a 4 sleeper RV We did tow a 7500 lb boat with that rig--but it had a beefed up suspension and tranny for the bus service, plus our interior was minimal

The 3/4 ton Dodge van was just an electric king size bed/back seat, and a cabinet with a 5 gallon water source and 5 gallon gray water tank, and a portipotty--small propane stove, and Norcold compressor driven chest refer/freezer with two extra group 21 batteries. Made a great tow vehicle--but not that good a "camper" because it did not have a raised top.

We had a 1993 Road Trek 19 Popular, and towed the 22 regularly with it. I cannot comment on the newer Road TReks--but I did have it fairly well loaded and not problems. I put over 40,000 miles on it and it now has over 170,000 miles with no problems form the new owner.

When we sell the large RV we have now, we may consider the sprinter type of RV--but don't really consider it good for towing the C Dory--because of the small engine. Don't get me wrong, I love diesels, but the Sprinter is only 161 hp, and 265 ft lbs torque.

The place to look for Road Treks used is the FMCA Road Trek group:

http://www.roadtrekchapter.org Click on the "for sale sign" Currently there are 10 For sale on the web site from the news letter and an additional 46 Road Treks For sale from the specific ads! There are also several large Road Trek dealers who always have a number to look at.