Raising the bar

P

potter water

New member
Well, this will surely get me into trouble, but: (Sorry for the lengthy post)

I spent my late teens and early 20's working in photo studios and as a newspaper photographer and for television. I learned some basic truths about images and video that are meant for general consumption.

Fortunately and happily, we now live in the digital image age. Millions upon million of images and videos are shot around the world and posted on U-tube and many sites like C-Brats; most of those are intended for consumption by mom or dad or grandma or grandpa and so on. Relatively few are shot for general consumption.

It is a real pleasure for so many of us who share common interests such as C-Dorys to be able to post images and videos to help get the rest of us through the "off season." ( Yeah, yeah, I know, some of you live where there is no off season)!

As I watch the brats site and troll the internet for "great escape" videos and images, I'm struck by the lack of the most basic of photo and video skills and techniques. Now, that's fine for mom and dad and grandma and grandpa's consumption, because they only care that little Johnny and Missy are in the pix, even if off center and a bit out of focus.

But for the rest of us; and I understand that tastes vary a lot, I think there are a few basics that take little time and only a little thought to make a nice image or video that many strangers can enjoy.

So, perhaps within the C-Brat family, there are those with experience who would share with us a favorite video or image, but with some added information about why they think that image or video was particularly nice; and especially, the context of the video or pix.

In my case, I have the following thoughts about images and videos in general; with the disclaimer that these thoughts come about by my own experience and tastes.

Regarding videos:

1. Stop the shakes and the quick pans and super short shots.
2. If it is worth videoing set up the shot, pan slowly and long enough that whatever it is that you've thought was great will be seen and understood by the viewer.
3. Turn off the stereo that is blaring in the background of the shot.
4. Narration in general consumption videos is a really good thing. Nothing bugs me more than a 10 minute video backed by loud rock music but not a word about what's going on, why it's going on, etc. If you must have music, keep it in the background and have someone talk at least a little bit. "Well, here we are at hunky bunk cove with my grand kids on our annual grand kid outing. Johnny is about to ride the brand new slide we put on the houseboat this spring. This is the first test, GO Johnny." Anything other than music to let folks know that this is happy time on the boat.
5. Super boring is the endless shot over the bow of the boat or over the stern or out the side window of the boat moving along the water with no music, no narration, no context of why you even thought to turn on the camera.

Still shots:

Yes, with the digital world, you can shoot and shoot and shoot and maybe once in a while get a good one. But, there is another alternative to just hoping. That is to think about why you are pushing the snap button in the first place. Is it because you are there and feel obligated, or is it because you've seen a unique image? All the jillions of images are great for your own consumption, but if you want others to appreciate it, even if it is of little Johnny and Missy, then take a bit of time to make it specially cute or interesting.

1. A child playing with a toad is a great image. A child staring at the camera, not so interesting. Children handling and discussing a piece of drift wood, interesting, children staring at the camera, not so interesting.

2. Pictures are almost always better with people in them, even when you are shooting scenery. There are exceptions of course, but scenery without context, people or tree or driftwood in near field, will almost always be boring, UNLESS the combination of sky, near and far field, lighting, shadows, textures and colors create the context on their own. That is a tough combination to pull off, but, even the most artistically clunky among us CAN do it with just some basic thought.

3. Of course boats are what it is all about. They are usually the stars for us boaters. But, boat shots without context of who, what, where, when, why and how can be pretty boring. That context needs to come about with caption, or by clever composition of the boat in a way that context can be drawn from the image itself.

Well, maybe you get my drift. We have several pro and near pro photogs on this sight who may wish to chime in on this.

Special note: There have been and are many excellent examples of what I'm talking about that have been posted here; I'd just like to see more.

This coming cold winter, I'd like to be able to turn on the brat albums and videos and be gently drifted off to warmer times and climes of the summer of 2013.

And, don't forget that even if your great image or video is very much like another great image or video, it will still be unique and worth seeing by those of us thirsty for off season nourishment.

I'll see if I have even one image I'm proud of and post it by and by.

Have a great season y'all.
 
Great read and one I constantly work on to improve. Last year I traveled to Canada and shot hours of video and took way to many stills. Fast forward here a bit. Back at my PC and wading through all the stills and way to many 3 minute video shots. Walk away with head spinning. I return to the PC weeks later. OK, where did I leave off and what did I see? :smilep Back through many of the same shots and video again. Long story short finally after three months I come up with what I think I want to put into a video. Fast forward again.

Late one night I sit down and once again take a look at what I had produced . BORRRRRRRING. Delete delete delete. Walk away disgusted.

A week later start again and think I put together another good beginning. Two days later review and again, delete delete. Ok one more time and I get what I thought was a video someone could watch without going to sleep.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is you are absolutely correct about what the digital world has done to so many pictures and VIDEO.. Many hard to watch, and hitting the stop tab happens often with the majority of the fishing video I watch. Hopefully I can produce a video with a story to tell and one that hitting the stop tab never becomes a thought. Thanks for reminder and direction. This member appreciates it.
 
In our travels, we shoot as much video as looks interesting. It takes about ten hours of good video to get a 50 minute viewable version. Obviously it takes longer to edit than it does to shoot. Frequently we will shoot the same thing many times to catch the right moment.
The same thing applies to our still shots. We shoot on high resolution and use the computer to zoom. Out of thousands of shots only a few make it to the printer. It is much easier with digital.
 
Really pretty nice. Nice music and nice segways on the slides and videos. Nice cross section of activities. I would like to have seen you drag in one of those big old beasts. I'd have been happy with 3 or 4 minutes showing a bit more of the places and the fishing. You are clearly on the right track having done many edits, putting it away and doing more.
 
Still C-razy,

You are asking a lot from us video and photography layman's. However, I am certain we are all willing to try a little harder....
For myself, I have to go back now and read my old camera manual for the first time. :D

What I really would like to see is a picture of the captain and first mate if applicable in all of the C-Dory galleries. With that, I would know who all those great people are. Some of the galleries have a lot of pictures with a lot of people on it but no way to know who the C-Dory owners are. :crook
 
Thanks for the interesting post. Like some others of us, I suspect, I was a semi-serious photographer back in the film days when film was precious and one took time to think before clicking. Now we have zillions of images whizzing by and quantity does not equal quality. There are some very good photographers on this site who post, from time to time, some beautiful and intriguing images.
 
Agreed on the crew pictures. I suspect some of us are a little apologetic about our looks, specially those of us who are in our wisest years. But it matters not...this isn't a dating site...or.....?

I tried photo-shopping one of my 1972 slim and trim pictures of me into a photo of still crazy right after we bought her in 2009, but the checkered pants, long side burns, hair way over my ears and the paisley shirt just didn't click and gave the whole sham away. So, I went with the 2009 50 lbs. heavier, no side burn and pot belly look instead. It works okay:):)
 
Interesting post, and I certainly agree. We rarely post videos, yet years ago we did many. We almost always used a tripod--the zoom lens is the bain of video.

There are some professional photographers on the C Dory site--we don't always see their work on the day to day albums, but if you find them--they are outstanding!
 
Harry,

I find this thread very interesting as a amateur with very little photography knowledge & quite a few years owning & using a video camera. I purchased the first video camera in 1984 & owned another half dozen since. I had one ruined from a fall off a horse in the Shoshone Wilderness Area southeast of Yellowstone Park & another is still sitting in the bottom of Red Bluff Bay, Alaska. Along with all our travels in the early family years I have video of many remote wilderness adventures backpacking & on horseback, alone & with others in the Rocky Mountains & just Jo-Lee & I in the back country of British Columbia, Yukon Territories & the Northwest Territories exploring remote lakes & rivers. I have shared with the C-Brats some of the videos of our adventures on the CD 22 taken over the last 10 years.

I agree, if the purpose of your videos is for the most part to share them with others, raising the bar to the limits of your ability is a goal worth working towards & your points for improvement are all good. Even if its mainly for your own enjoyment in viewing past adventures on those long winter evenings or when age, health or whatever finally brings your adventuring to a close the better the video quality in all ways enhances the enjoyment. On the other hand if your like me mainly doing the videos for your own enjoyment & not receiving or even a desire to receive a monetary reward for others to see them, then there's a limit to the time & effort needed to go beyond what's just good enough for personnel enjoyment. I've been encouraged in the past to make the effort to achieve monetary return for others enjoyment of my videos & totally rejected the idea, feeling the stress process of trying to please others for profit would only ruin a thing I very much enjoy doing now as one of many enjoyments during our travels. At the present it's always a pleasure to hear someone say they have enjoyed a photo or video from one of our adventures & especially why, but definitely not worth further time or effort to improve if they don't & if not viewed or I felt not enjoyed by enough, then I would simply not post anymore.

Jay
 
I am in the process of transferring thousand's of slides from the 1950's through 1990's. Thousands! This gives me a fresh and unique perspective. Why do we take pictures in the first place? It's to try to capture the moment, but no matter hard we try, it is futile. Our moments are so ephemeral that we waste our time taking volumes of pictures instead of realizing the preciousness of each slice of time we have with our loved ones in our lives. So Harry is right. In looking through all these slides, the ones that are the most precious are those with people. We don't need to be bludgeoned over the head by thousand's of images; only a few, well-crafted photos are needed to stir our memories.

Rich
 
The ones that sadden me are boats sitting on trailers mostly. That and the albums with 1000 DIY projects and no photos of people using boat.
 
chromer":1ypuio81 said:
The ones that sadden me are boats sitting on trailers mostly. That and the albums with 1000 DIY projects and no photos of people using boat.
Click to expand...

Heh, that's my album right now :wink: (Although I've been fortunate to have had many adventures on other boats over the years). I don't get sad when I see those albums though. Of course first of all, I find the photos and projects interesting; but second, I know that some people enjoy puttering on their boats - maybe even more than using them. Projects can give a great sense of satisfaction. Sometimes mixed in with boating, and other times on their own (maybe to tide one over till the next adventure). Also, perhaps some folks don't want to publish family moments on the world wide web, but they feel comfortable posting project photos they know might interest/help others.

So unless I know a particular person really wants to get out but can't (health, some other long-term problem), I don't feel sad about it.

Interesting thread.

Sunbeam :hot

PS: Jay, I can completely identify what you are talking about. I've watched your videos and enjoyed them immensely, btw. And sure, I can see they are not the most polished and could even be better. But I imagine they *still* take you hours and hours to complete. You could probably easily double that time making clever cuts and doing other things to make them even better. But then you might not do them at all! I have really wanted to get into the video world, but I'm daunted by the sheer number of hours it seems that it would take to get up to speed in the first place, and then the perfectionist me would probably want to craft each one..... I don't know if I'd have any time left for actually doing the things I want to film?
 
Another diver once asked me how many shots I take during an average dive. I told her it was somewhere between ten and fifty, depending on conditions. She said she always takes around 250 shots.
I told her the trick is to frame your shot, then just before you push the shutter down, ask yourself if the shot will be interesting to others. If the answer is no or I'm not sure, back away from the camera.
 
Thank you for starting this thread. I'm still on film and have no plans to go to the dark side. Film is warmer, and has better depth of field and is more fun, overall. Film can sucessfuly compete with any digital photo and win. My three best of show entrys in the last three years should say something, but then it sounds like I'm looking for an agrument! Am I, you bet! All in fun and nothing like stiring the pot. Roger
 
Film is terrific, but in my area of the country, there are almost no services, and my home is just not dark room friendly. I loved using the 4x5 graphic and my mini graphic two and a quarter three and a quarter. Also my large format Mamiya 645. Loved to do darkroom work. My favorite was my Nikon S2 35. But, I've moved on. It was hard for me when I sold my darkroom stuff to an enthusiastic young couple about 6 years ago. But, I'm not a pro, so the digital is working well for me.

But, LONG LIVE FILM!
 
Sunbeam":31t0y25g said:
chromer":31t0y25g said:
The ones that sadden me are boats sitting on trailers mostly. That and the albums with 1000 DIY projects and no photos of people using boat.
Click to expand...

Heh, that's my album right now :wink: (Although I've been fortunate to have had many adventures on other boats over the years). I don't get sad when I see those albums though. Of course first of all, I find the photos and projects interesting; but second, I know that some people enjoy puttering on their boats - maybe even more than using them. Projects can give a great sense of satisfaction. Sometimes mixed in with boating, and other times on their own (maybe to tide one over till the next adventure). Also, perhaps some folks don't want to publish family moments on the world wide web, but they feel comfortable posting project photos they know might interest/help others.

So unless I know a particular person really wants to get out but can't (health, some other long-term problem), I don't feel sad about it.

Interesting thread.

Sunbeam :hot

PS: Jay, I can completely identify what you are talking about. I've watched your videos and enjoyed them immensely, btw. And sure, I can see they are not the most polished and could even be better. But I imagine they *still* take you hours and hours to complete. You could probably easily double that time making clever cuts and doing other things to make them even better. But then you might not do them at all! I have really wanted to get into the video world, but I'm daunted by the sheer number of hours it seems that it would take to get up to speed in the first place, and then the perfectionist me would probably want to craft each one..... I don't know if I'd have any time left for actually doing the things I want to film?
Click to expand...

Sunbeam, yes you do understand what I trying to say. And to add it, in Jolee's & my enjoyment of our videos, we prefer only editing out the vary obvious errors such as thinking the camera is off when on. Of the rest, much may be boring to others, but to us the entirety, enhances all the memories & enjoyment of reliving our experiences. The major editing to make short videos for others is just work for me with very little enjoyment. The enjoyment being for me in the working with video comes in #1 the capture, two the personal viewing & three the enjoyment others may express of their viewing. This to me is similar to our use of the boat. No enjoyment from doing maintenance or projects instead it comes from the end result of actually using the boat & the memories generated. I think if you ever do get into video it will be just like the way you do your boat projects, with perfection & that you may find out it does take away from instead of adding to your overall boating enjoyment. For sure from reading most all your posts & talking with you at Lake Powell, I have no doubt you have an excellent balance between working on your boat projects & actual boat use enjoyment & in the future your photo album if not video too will show it.

Jay
 
RogerJuntunen Amazing that you are still working in film! I suspect it is too much to ask if you have a web site were we can see your work?

Just before we left for the Keys, I was talking with the owner of our local professional camera shop about the demand for film and services (I noted that they carry fewer chemicals and paper each year. He commented that about the only demand he had was the state college where they still used film in basic photography class.

Film is a wonderful art form. But, I gained back my enthusiasm for photography when digital matured. I could do an a computer in a few minutes what took hours in a dark room. Plus I could share with others almost instantly.

This last summer I took my grandkids to Ansel Adam's studio, in Yosemite, where I had met the master several times when I was younger. What a disappointment--not even many of his best works were displayed...

I would love to see your work!
 
One of my favorite T-shirts from years ago...

"Ansel Adams brackets!"

If you are a photographer, you will think that is really funny. :wink:

We were early adopters of digital technology. Some of you know we were in the photography industry for most of our adult lives. Master of Photography; internationally affiliated photographic juror; we did seminars for professional photographers associations. Besides the commercial and portrait work our studio did, I sold digitally enhanced photo art in several galleries. We also owned full film and digital labs.

All that said, I completely agree with my mountain man friend, Jay. Photography marks a moment in time... memory insurance. For over 3 decades, I produced work for others, and took pride in happy clients. These days, I shoot what makes me happy... It might be a sunrise, my sweet cat, or some frickie-Dickie dolphins. If someone doesn't want to look at them because of technique or content, I'm so OK with that. Shoot what you like any way that pleases you. If you didn't ask for advice on how to make it better... Well, you know.

Best wishes,
Jim B. (M. Photog. Cr., CPP)
 
So, just a reminder on the thread I started here, I was commenting on making images and videos for general consumption.

What I've seen in the posts is:

A. Naw, I'll just shoot and shoot and enjoy looking at my pixvids to remind me of the good time I've had.

B. Hmmm...Yeah, I'd kinda like to spend a bit of extra time making something nice enough that my Dory friends would enjoy on a cold winter night.

C. You know, I really use to love photography, I think I'll study up a little and see if I can improve what I shoot both for my own memories and for others.

I just want to make sure that those of us interested in making and sharing pixvids aren't being "dumbed-down" by the digital media that should be doing the opposite, allowing our creativity free reign to try things that we'd never have tried in the days of dollar and a half printed images from a 24 shot roll of film.

Happy shooting whatever motivates you. Let the good times roll and the pictures post!
 
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