Questions regarding recent survey on Cape Cruiser Venture

T

tcr_pnw

New member
Good evening everyone! First off I want to thank everybody for their input on my various posts while I search for the perfect boat for our desires. I hope to see you all on the water soon.

My eyes have turned from the 22 Classic to the 23 Venture for various reasons. I found a vessel that I like and I have just had a survey completed on a CC23 Venture that is a 2006 model. I am awaiting the full report but had a good discussion with the surveyor as he went over his notes. His overall impression was "pretty darn good" to quote. A couple areas he addressed, I'm hoping to get some clarification/guidance on.

First, is the transom in the CC23 Venture still plywood? He noticed a couple very faint stress fractures in the gelcoat at the transom near the engine mounts. They are hairline and the owner was not aware, but it is his job to scour for things like it. He did not notice any flex at the transom and believes it to be superficial. Also he did not notice anything out of the ordinary from his percussion soundings. He gave it a factor of 1.5-2 (out of 10) as cause for concern and "repair as needed". He did mention that if the transom was foam, he would much more concerned. What are your thoughts on these minor stress fractures? I will have pics as soon as his report comes in. I apologize I do not have them to post now.

Second, he noticed the fresh water pump "chirp" on and off on occasion during his time aboard and deduced there must be a loss in pressure or an issue with the pressure switch. Should there be a small drip leak in the system, I am curious as to it's design. Not knowing the tank location or how the piping is run, could the water be leaking anywhere with intrusion into the hull? Or is the system designed in a way that a small drip would not have access and compromise hull integrity (I'm assuming construction was still with balsa)? It is not leaking at the faucet but the boat does have a fresh water wash down as well. What are you thoughts on this?

Lastly, the owner is great to work with. As I will be purchasing the boat sight unseen, he is willing to take any additional pictures or answer any other questions. Are there any other quirks or common issues with Ventures made under the Cape Cruiser badge that I should look for in particular to see if this boat is being affected by?

Other than that, everything else was minor or cosmetic. The engines have been well maintained and performed excellently.

Thank you in advance once again for any and all input.

Troy
 
Exciting times!

I"m sure those who actually own Cape Cruisers will chime in soon, but when I was boat shopping I was seriously considering one particular Cape Cruiser, and so I did some searching and reading here on the site, just to familiarize myself with the common issues (which all boat models I know of have some of, so not picking on the CC at all).

Most of the "interesting" posts I found concerned water under the flat sole (between that and the hull). There was much discussion, partially because different years were made differently, and until people started tackling it, no-one was sure what to expect. By the end of the thread much has been clarified.

The upshot, as I remember it, was that water was sometimes able to get in between the foam-cored sole and the cored hull, but it was not really able to get back out easily. Also fasteners for the fuel tanks could let water into the sole core on some boats. I think many people cut access plates into the sole to reach past that into the hollow space and remove the water. There is a long thread here on C-Brats that you might find interesting, which goes into more detail (and thereby discusses other details of construction, including I believe the water system piping).

All in all, they look like a great boat.

Sunbeam :hot
 
Thanks! I'm actually reading through that thread now. Bit of info overload with all that is there! Need to see if I can get a quick look in there. From what I gathered there is a point of access in the v-berth area to check? At least into the space at the bow to look for water. As mentioned the owner is great to work with.
 
Troy, as for the two findings, the hairline fractures/cracks are not unusual in any FG boat. They may even occur with no stress at all as the gelcoat hardens or soon thereafter. Not to worry about that one if they are on the surface.

The waterpump chirp, sounds like a slightly leaking water system. Not unusual there either, but darn annoying at night when you're trying to sleep. Sometimes hard to find too. Not nearly a concerning item though.

The water in the hull situation that some have found is another story. I'd be surprised if the surveyor didn't open all of the inspection ports and look for moisture. You mentioned that the engines ran well, meaning the boat was waterborne. If it was in the water all the time before that, if the water was there, he would have seen it/reported it. You might just ask the specific question though.

Good luck, sounds like you found a great boat! Welcome to the Brats!

Charlie
 
With the boats and RVs we have owned, about half have had the "occasional blip" with the water pump. On only one occasion was it a leak (incompatible connections on the C-Dory, which we discovered right away), the rest of the time it was the diaphram in the pump - a one-way valve that has allowed a tiny bit of water to run back through the pump, making the pump motor occasionally blip.

I don't understand why folks leave the pump on all the time? We turn the pump on when we need to run the pump, then turn it off. If you ever did have a leak (especially if you are away from the boat for a few hours), it could potentially pump your entire fresh water tank out at that leak. No reason to leave the pump on overnight.

If the rest of the boat looks/sounds good, the water pump is very minor (I have now changed out 4 fresh water pumps in the 7 years we've owned our boat).

Good luck with your decisions.

Jim B.
 
We have trailed our 08 Venture over 20 thousand miles. Small gel coat cracks have been taken care of with new gel coat and have not reappeared. We use a carpeted covered 2x4 as a motor support to keep the motor from bouncing around while we trailer. See trailer mods section of our album.I would however check the drain plug tube or fitting if you have a threaded plug. Ours a threaded type was leaking under the flange and repaired by under cutting the holes and adding epoxy and redrilling the epoxy for the screws with a bed of 3M 4200. All better now. We had a raw water wash down thru hull which we removed and plugged and glassed it over. Along with the external step fish box drains you might not have. The actual Venture series had some interior fiberglass changes in the cockpit (larger steps and so called fish boxes) from the Cape Cruisers. We retained the raw wash down pump and connected a hose so we still can utilize the pump for an extra bilge pumping out other boats or a live well or raw water wash down. We have installed three six inch inspection ports as shown in our album. One under the berth, another at the rear of the cabin, and the third, just offset of center in the cockpit as there is a support running down the center. I think some or some places where the water comes from is the hull deck joint under the rub rail. Also some have found the water fill and under rail mounts to be the problem and have rebedded them with butyl rubber. Some of the water can be from condensation. We open and remove all covers dry it out and leave a heater in over the winter. Nice boat all in all. See stay on ours for a month at a time,it's tiny town but we love it. Hope this helps. Also look up the Ross's Pacific Wander album it is a great resource.
D.D.
 
Hi Troy,

Good luck with your purchase. My wife and I own a 2006 CC Venture 23 that we bought from the previous owner in Florida. I flew to Florida to see the boat and take a test ride, and I was glad I did. It was nice to actually meet the owner and see how well he cared for the boat. We certainly love it and I trust you will too.

As for the hairline cracks nearby the engine, ours has the same. Our boat is powered by a 150 Honda and I've not seen any cause for concern at this time. They appear to be just superficial are not growing, nor does there appear to be any flexing or other weakness. I am interested to hear what others have to say about this.

As for your second issue, once I had the boat home I began puttering and found something that surprised me. The water tank is located on the port side, under the aft dinette seat. I removed the wood cover and noticed the different hoses were rather gunked up. I then removed the tank and replaced the intake and exit hoses - a very quick and easy job. HOWEVER, I noticed that there had been long term water seepage in and around the area under the tank. Leakage that went across the hull and was under the Tundra refrigerator - which I had also removed to check under. The wooden support frames under the tank and the refrigerator were both fully rotted out. Lots of ooze, mud, and crud. It was clear that this was a long occurring problem. Because there was no inspection port, such as in the floor just inside the cabin door like you will see some other owners have installed, this water problem had gone completely unnoticed and understandably so. I completely cleaned out the areas involved and rebuilt the supporting structures - both very easy jobs. I have tested the water tank but found no leaks of any sort. As mentioned, I have also replaced all of the hoses and tightened all of the connections. There are no signs of leakage around the tank or water pump so I am hopeful the root of the leak has been fixed, but time will tell...

While messing about nearby the refrigerator I replaced the gasket around the Wallas stove vent in the hull. The thru-hull fitting was just screwed into the hull and it's located just above the waterline. This could be a problem if the screws ever loosened. I also noticed some evidence of water seepage. I spoke to the great folks at Wallas and they sent me a new gasket free of charge. They also strongly advised that I thru-bolt the fitting, which I have now done.

We love our Venture and very highly recommend it. There are several highly knowledgable CC Venture owners on this site who you will find to gladly offer their insight and expertise, and encouragement. I am certainly not in that category and we are still learning about our boat, but we are very grateful to them and to the many other C-Brats who are always there to help.

Good luck with your purchase!

Rob
 
No "deal killers there". The water pump can be a bad valve, bad switch, leak etc--but turn it off when not using it! No place where water can compromise directly from leak--but if there are screws into any core, they need to be sealed properly with epoxy--and none of the factory boats have this done.

Buy the boat and enjoy it!
 
thataway":38c1epq8 said:
No "deal killers there". The water pump can be a bad valve, bad switch, leak etc--but turn it off when not using it! No place where water can compromise directly from leak--but if there are screws into any core, they need to be sealed properly with epoxy--and none of the factory boats have this done.

Buy the boat and enjoy it!
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I've decided to go forward with the boat and just need to finalize terms of the purchase. I appreciate the input.

It's a bummer go through all the trouble of making such great boats but not sealing certain things properly. The boat was slipped part time but the only thing under waterline is the drain plug and trim tabs, no through-hulls. Would you suggest redoing those? The survey was both in and out of the water and he didn't notice any issues when randomly sounding the transom and hull.
 
tcr_pnw":29i1sqgt said:
It's a bummer go through all the trouble of making such great boats but not sealing certain things properly.
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I heartily agree on that. Not that it's any excuse, but it's common in many brands of boats, so not just C-Dory. Some things take a lot more time and effort to seal properly, but others don't (if done at the time of build), and irritate me more (because it's much more of a pain to go back and do it later).

tcr_pnw":29i1sqgt said:
The boat was slipped part time but the only thing under waterline is the drain plug and trim tabs, no through-hulls. Would you suggest redoing those?
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Before I start here, I want to add a caveat, which is that I'm surely out on one end of the spectrum (can't relax unless I know it's right, by my standards), and there are obviously many boats out there that have not been re-done and are still afloat and out happily boating. So there is that. But anyway, what would I do?

I think, given what I've seen, I would need to remove/look at/re-do anything below the waterline. I knew this going in, so I specifically looked for a boat that had been stored indoors, not kept in the water, and had very few hours. I've now removed/inspected just about everything below the waterline (haven't had main engine off yet), and from what I've seen, I'd have a hard time not worrying about water ingress (to the core) if the boat were kept in the water (however, see caveat!). The drain tubes in particular, on my boat, were barely sealed and installed into raw balsa core (you can see details in the "Sunbeam ~ 22 Cruiser" thread). Even with so very little time in the water and out in the open, there was moisture around the lower drain tube (not much though, whew!). (I think you have a garboard drain style plug in the Cape Cruiser, right? But there may still be core involved).

I suppose if it were me, and I wasn't going to just do it all (ha ha, then it wouldn't be me, but I digress :wink:), I would start by checking that drain fitting. It's just one fitting, so not too involved, it's relatively easy to remove/re-install, and it will give you a look at a representative example (although I suppose the builder might have installed that and a dealer the trim tabs, so maybe not the same install philosophy).

My guess would be that your transom core is fine now (survey, boat has been on trailer often, these things take time to develop), so it partially depends on your plans for the boat (any longer periods of time in the water?), and your overall mentality (are you like me or are you more like "I'm not gonna worry; I'm just going to use the boat." Or somewhere in between).

I will say that the "I'm not gonna worry" folks are out boating while I'm working on my boat, so there is that :D Hopefully I'll catch up to them soon though :thup (and I know I'd just be obsessing anyway).

From everything I've read, the Cape Cruisers are pretty darned sweet - I bet you're going to love it :thup

Sunbeam :hot

PS: From reading the Cape Cruiser threads last year, I think I would also check the fuel tank cleats, if there are screws involved.
 
I would say I'm middle of the road leaning towards obsessed. The price of these boats is no small sum to me and the amount for sale is limited. I would love to buy new, modify as needed and know that from its first time in the water, things are proper. But then again, that doesn't guarantee things will be perfect and $80-$90k is not in the budget!

It does use the the garboard style screw drain and the transom is foam core. I will plan on at least pulling that and undercutting, epoxy and replace. That and add inspection ports fore and aft, redo the lag bolts on the tanks and any others over the spring months..

As much as I like the look of the molded in gelcoat color absent bottom paint, I may go that route and add it. I live 45 min from Anacortes marina and 20 minutes from 3-4 other launch points with slips. I think I'll have it slipped July & August for the simple fact we can get out close to 7 days a week if just for a few hours after work. During those months, twilight extends close to 11PM.
 
tcr_pnw":kb8m9aqo said:
...redo the lag bolts on the tanks ...
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I don't know the exact details of how the tanks are secured in the CC, but you might want to consider the Weld Mount footman loops when you re-do it. That way you could just fill any holes and not make new ones. They are held in place with methacrylate adhesive (Triton is making use of this adhesive in their new C-Dory builds now).

footman_loop.jpg

I've been using the studs and footman loops on my 22 and have found them to be very useful. Next up are some wire-tie mounts and a few hose holder clamps (not the type that you clamp around a hose/barb but the ones you clamp around a hose enroute to hold the run in place).

Sunbeam
 
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