Question for C-Dory Loopers

P

Pat Anderson

New member
Chuck Raddon may have burst my bubble on the Great Loop plan for 2017-2018. Chuck pointed out the range issue on the Upper Mississippi, basically confirmed in this excerpt from Capt. John's website (a wonderful resource):

"The fuel range required for this leg of your journey is 250 miles. You will have to make it from Hoppies Marina to either the Kentucky Dam Marina (mile 22) or Green Turtle Bay Marina
(mile 25) on the Tennessee river."

I know CD22s have done the Loop. How in the world do they achieve a range of 250 miles? We carry 100 gallons on Daydream and I am uncertain we could go 250 miles without a fuel stop.

So how do C-Dory Loopers manage this issue, it is really critical for me to get a handle on this!

 
Where there is a will there is a way, You need to think outside the box. We carry a couple of 6 gallon cans and a small folding cart.
Many times we have put in at a landing, walked a short distance to a gas station and returned with gas.

River rats are friendly and helpful, There is usually someone who will give you a ride to the gas station if the walk is too far.

On the Ohio river I was walking back 1/2 mile from a convenience store carrying a couple of full of gas cans, (did not have my folding cart on that trip) A guy mowing his grass insisted on giving me a ride back to the landing on his lawnmower. We sat the gas cans on the lawnmower deck and I straddled the hood.


Use Google maps en route to find convenience stores and gas stations near the river. Many small towns have mom and pop cab or wrecker services that will shuttle gas. I have even called a Dominos pizza near the river during non busy hours and hired the delivery driver to come shuttle gas cans. In New Madrid a local fisherman offered a ride to the gas station.
Many small farm co-op services with small tanker trucks that deliver fuel to farmers will come to a landing and fill you up. I know Gateway Farm service in Redbud, Ill will come to The dock in Evansville Ill and do a fill up. Evansville is a few miles up the Kaskaskia River south of Hoppies.

With a shallow draft C-Dory do not overlook small side creeks and channels on the charts that may put you closer to gas, There is one near Cape Girardeau that takes you off river and puts you right behind a truck stop.
Chester, Ill is another small town on the river with gas also.

Don't overlook an important resource, C-Brats. On a trip down the Missourri River from Yankton, S.D. Pelican and Bixby's Cub were approaching Kansas City with no gas prospects. We contacted a C-Brat want to be that we had met at the Mississippi gathering a couple of years before. He met us at the landing with a pickup truck full of gas cans. His cans along with ours allowed us to completely fill up both boats, and he took us to an out of the way spot for some KC bar-b-que.

To make the trip of a lifetime happen, certainly consider aux tanks or google foldable storable bladder tanks.

Past Hoppies the current is usually a solid 3 Mph so you can gain an additional 30 miles for every 10 hours you can stay in the current, you can extend your range quite a bit by traveling at dead idle and staying in the channel.

Most don't use a tender on the inland rivers. Except where rocks and boulder have been placed for levees, the river banks are usually soft dirt, sand or sometimes mud. Where there in no traditional dock, Folks slowly nudge into the soft bank and use a short ladder or step stool to exit the bow. There are thousands of beautiful islands and sandy beaches to stop at and have a campfire and spend the night. Or just walk around for a while to stretch your legs.

Do not be discouraged, plan the trip and adapt when the plans don't work out.

Tex
 
we have done 250 miles in our 25 in AK and had some fuel left. Displacement speed part of the way. Another option for the C Dory with the shoal draft is launching ramps, and a couple of 5 gallon cans, fairly easy to find some boater who will give you a lift to a service station and back for a few bucks. You have the river current with you--and you all often do displacement speeds anyway--enjoy the roses err--Kudzu..Should be scenic few days at sailboat speeds..Do one day at displacement speed, and see where your fuel is. This is a trick that sport fishers use on long trips, as across the Gulf of Mexico to Isla Mujeres, Mexico. Probably one day at displacement speeds would give you 60 to 70 miles--should have a current of about 1.5 to 2 Knots...Which helps.

In the past "Kidd's Gas and Convenience Store" in Cape Girardeau, MO has had a fuel dock. A phone call to them might give information as to current status of their dock. If there is flooding the docks are damaged, and not sure if they have been repaired since 2014.

Don't let a little thing like "range" interfere with the plans...
 
Pat, Bob from Sea Pal,
We made it with Sea Pal with fuel to spare. If you fill at Hoppies you should be able
to make to Green Turtle. We carried two 5 gallon jugs for extra fuel but did not need them.
Remember it's all down stream to Cairo. With the tows and wing dams,etc you won't
be going fast or using much fuel. We will have to get together sometime in southern AZ
before your trip and talk about it.

Bob
 
If you keep your speed to displacement, you should have at least a 400 mile range. Running at speed, use your fuel flow meter to get the most efficient speed, and you should get around 2.5 mpg or better.

Don't let this issue sink your plans... others have told you how they made it work, in boats with less range than your CD-25. Slow down; add a couple jerry cans of fuel; count on "the kindness of strangers."

You have a whole year to work this out.
 
You might ask the Aussie team that just completed the loop in a rented C-Dory 26? Check out Derrick Baan's website/blog balakera.com
 
Here's a link to my cabin full of gas cans when I left Cape Girardeau in 2004:

http://smittypaddler.com/cds/cd4/greatl ... 130008.JPG

Not on topic, but worth mentioning, an embarrassing moment for me on the Ohio was when I got to the first lock and dam shown on my chart, and called the lockmaster because I couldn't find the dam or lock. It turned out those dams submerge to the bottom when the water's high enough so a pool isn't needed to float commercial traffic.
 
There is a photo of "Grace full" at Hoppies with 4 jerry cans, and also a photo of a tanker truck on the ramp at Cape Cape Girardeau. Remember that the Aussies were on a "speed trip" since they only had a 6 month Visa.
 
Thanks, all. I did ask Derrick, one of the Aussies, and he replied with a phone number to get a gas delivery, here is his part of reply:

"Call Roy who runs the local farmers co op gas tanker and get him to come to the boat ramp to the North of Cape Girardeau. His # is 573 450 0434 This is what we did and it reinforced the value of being a member of the AGLCA as we were directed to Roy by finding a local AGLCA member on the website directory."
 
Hi Pat,

Finally got around to weighing in on this thread.

Tex knows what he is talking about and did a great write up for you. As rookie boaters we followed his lead two years ago and went with a group of C-Dory's through this section of the Mississippi. Our 22 can only hold 46 gallons total ( and Tex doesn't do too much drifting!!!) , but we were able as a group to hike up to gas station on a side channel somewhere after Cape Girardeau. A friendly local at the gas station let us all hop in the back of his truck to get back to the boats.

Due to time constraints, we did not follow the group further down on the Mississippi and travel on the Arkansas river, so we decided to head up the Ohio and into the Cumberland River. I misjudged the time in getting through one of the first locks on the Ohio and we were starting to lose daylight. We wanted to anchor on a beach after the confluence of the Tennessee River because of the heavy barge traffic in this area. As a result I ran at about 20 miles per hour and I burned a lot of fuel, I didn't want to travel in the dark. The next morning we were concerned about having enough fuel to make it up the Cumberland to the Barkley Lock. At the confluence of the Ohio and Cumberland I noticed some fisherman near a boat ramp and decided to pull in to see if I could hike somewhere to fill a couple of cans with fuel. No sooner than I had jumped off the boat an older guy drives up with a van and said he had been watching me from the bluff and offered to take me up the hill into Smithland so I could fill my gas cans. Even wanted to take me to a great deli with the best sandwiches in town. Just a retired guy looking for something to do......friendly, friendly people there on the river.

DON'T let that section of the Mississippi dissuade you from an adventure like the Great Loop...GO FOR IT! You will like the Green Turtle Marina and Resort and you get guest privileges to the yacht club. You can bring in your own bottle up from boat to make cocktails. Also take Patty to nearby Patti's 1880's Settlement Restaurant in nearby Grand River, KY. As a side note.....how did we learn about this?......we were wandering around the resort after we arrived and a friendly couple with a golf cart offered to take us around and show us the whole area. Bottom line I felt like we were in the middle of southern hospitality!

Scott & Barb
 
I too found the folks along the Tennessee River abundantly friendly. I'd made arrangements to store my boat in Demopolis in the fall while I finished the last few months at work before retirement, but learned that the lock thru to the Tom Bigbee was closed for repairs. I told some folks at Pebble Isle Marina about my problem and one man offered to bring his boat trailer down to the marina, load my C-Dory on it and store it in his yard at home until I could get back. This kindness for a perfect stranger.
 
I too found the folks along the Tennessee River abundantly friendly. I'd made arrangements to store my boat in Demopolis in the fall while I finished the last few months at work before retirement, but learned that the lock thru to the Tom Bigbee was closed for repairs. I told some folks at Pebble Isle Marina about my problem and one man offered to bring his boat trailer down to the marina, load my C-Dory on it and store it in his yard at home until I could get back. This kindness for a perfect stranger.
 
When your saying displacement speed ,you don't get up on plane correct? Or is it slowest speed on plane?What mph would this be? Just curious for trips when we are trying to conserve fuel.
 
Hi Pat,

Obviously you've had much more time on your 25 than we've had on our brand new one, so this is probably not new to you, but we just finished a week's cruise on Lake Erie and I spent quite a bit of time working with speed and fuel usage.

We have a 2015 Yamaha 150 and in flat conditions doing 8 mph we were only using 1.8 gph! That would give us some very long legs while cruising. Is your gas consumption much different with your Honda?

Best,

Nick
"Valkyrie II"
C-Dory 25
 
Larry Patrick":49dx64ab said:
When your saying displacement speed ,you don't get up on plane correct? Or is it slowest speed on plane?What mph would this be? Just curious for trips when we are trying to conserve fuel.
Click to expand...

Larry, generally displacement speed, is less than "hull speed". Hull speed can vary from boat to boat, by hull design, weight, type of boat etc. Generally the max speed a boat can be driven before it starts to go over its bow wave to "semis displacement or planing speed"--and this is a speed where the fuel consumption starts going up rapidly.

It can be complicated, involving calculations involving the Froude number...and increasing resistance of forward progress

1.34 x the sq root of the water line length of a boat, is considered "hull speed" in knots. As long as you stay less than this, it will be reasonably efficient. The slower the better. Lets just say that your Venture 23 has a waterline length of 21 feet (It is probably a little less than this). Sq root of 23 is 4.8 (rounded) x 1.34 = 6.4 knots. So as long as you stay less than 6.4 knots, you will be doing fairly well.

Taking the C Dory web site, one has some performance numbers:

RPM GPH MPH MPG
1000 0.71 4.5 6.31
1500 1.14 4.71 4.15
2000 1.69 7.7 4.56
2500 2.64 9.6 3.64
3000 4.01 13.8 3.44
3500 5.35 19.5 3.64
4000 6.42 24.9 3.88

The C Dory is a bit of an exception since it planes at a very low speed. Also at low speeds and very low consumption the fuel flow meters are not super accurate. But you get the idea. At 4.5 mph you get 6.31 mpg, and at 9.6 mph, you only get 3.64 mpg. --but at 19.5 you also get 3.64 mpg...It is far better illustrated with full displacement boats.

There are two books which discuss this in detail: The "Nature of Boats" David Gerr. The other is "Voyaging under Power"--originally by Bebee..now by Leishman...
 
Taking the question Larry asked and Nick's: Here is Boat Test C Dory 25:

2500 RPM 8.8 MPH 7.7 Knots 1.9 Gallons per hour 446 Range.

This is light new boat....but at displacement speeds this would not be surprising.

If you drop it down to 1500 RPM, you will go 5.9 miles per hour and a range of 635 miles.
 
Valkyrie":u4oivg7z said:
Hi Pat,

Obviously you've had much more time on your 25 than we've had on our brand new one, so this is probably not new to you, but we just finished a week's cruise on Lake Erie and I spent quite a bit of time working with speed and fuel usage.

We have a 2015 Yamaha 150 and in flat conditions doing 8 mph we were only using 1.8 gph! That would give us some very long legs while cruising. Is your gas consumption much different with your Honda?

Best,

Nick
"Valkyrie II"
C-Dory 25
Click to expand...

Hi Nick,

With the 135 Honda on the 25 we had, if we kept it around 1800 RPM, the speed would be in the 5.5 to 6 knot range and the fuel burn was 1 gallon per hour. If we bumped it to 2000 RPM, we'd get 6.5 knots and the fuel burn would get closer to that 1.8 gph. If we weren't in a hurry, just a little bit slower was far more efficient.

To answer Larry's question, displacement speed is not on plane. The least efficient fuel burn on our 25 was that range between 8 and 13 knots, where the boat was kinda getting on plane - we would generally see less than 2 nmpg. At around 16 knots, it would increase to 2.5 and then a relatively linear slight decrease as speed increased. Our experience was the slowest speed where we could stay on plane was not the most efficient for fuel burn.

If you are willing to slow down, the range increases substantially.

Jim
 
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