Pounding in seas with the C-25?

M

matt_unique

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C Dory Year
2007
C Dory Model
255 Tomcat
Vessel Name
Napoleon
I mentioned in another recent post I'm exploring the C-25 as one of my next possible boats. One of my concerns is the flat stern and how that will equate to pounding in seas. My regular marine experience here in MA is 2-3' seas with 10-15knt winds. I currently cruise this with dive gear in an 18' Bayliner Cuddy Cabin. I would want the next boat to do better in terms of the pounding.

I would appreciate your experiences in seas with your C-25. I can't afford the Tomcat ;)

Thanks
 
Hi Matt,
You are likely to get a lot of different takes on this. Here's ours: every sea state is different. I appreciate this more now that we are powercruising as opposed to sailing. 2-3 feet waves widely spaced aren't a problem and comfortable into the mid-teens. Stack 'em closer together and you have to slow down to keep from pounding. Fortunately, this boat can stay on plane at 12 knots. If it gets nastier, you slow down to displacement speeds and the boat won't wallow around like a deeper v. We trim to get the bow where the ride is the most comfortable, and that is different in each circumstance.

The best suggestion I can recommend is to get out on one of these boats to see if the ride suits your tastes. We're doing this for the fun of it, and pounding isn't fun IMHO. If we feel we have to make some miles, we'll run it up to where it doesn't feel comfortable and then back off 'till it is. That speed varies with the conditions.

Other factors to consider in the comfort equation: you will stay dry. Oh, there'll probably be plenty of spray on the windshield, but not on you. It will be quieter. With that cabin door closed, you won't have the roar of the motor so intense. You can talk with other folks in the cabin without hollering. That also makes the ride more comfortable. When it gets chilly, you turn on the Wallas and stay in shirtsleeves instead of foulies.

Good luck with your decision making. The ride was a real concern for us before we bought this boat... or perhaps I should say the concern about the pounding? The person with their hand on the throttle controls that situation... or the person married to the person with their hand on the throttle. :wink:

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Hi Matt,

The flat stern and pounding are not cause and effect. The factors that contribute to pounding are balance and hull shape (in a power boat, it's primarily the hull shape at the bow).

The CD25 will pound because it has a very broad and shallow hull and it's very light for it's size. It's floating "on" the water more than "in" the water compared to other boats its size. Since you're in MA you can see this with some of the old style work boats. They have a lot more hull under the water than the CD25 does at the same 25-foot length.

Consider being out on anything other than a flat, flat day like continuously running down a gravel road in your vehicle. To stay comfortable (and in control) you just have to find that speed where things work; sometimes slower, sometimes faster but it always takes some attention from the operator.

The 'con' of the CD25 is that it can't run in the conditions you describe at high speeds (depending on the shape of those 2 to 3 footers I'd say in you'd be in the 10-knot range). The 'cons' of a boat that can are that 1) it needs high power 2) it burns a lot of fuel 3) it's tender and reacts to weight shifts (even small one) and 4) it either has to go like stink to stay "on top" or it has to slow way down to avoid mid-range no man's land speeds.

The 'pros' of the CD25 hull are 1) it requires very low power for it's size which it turn yields pretty darn good fuel mileage 2) there's a lot of room in the boat and it not sensitve to weight shifts 3) it has very shallow draft and coupled with the tiltable outboards means you can operate in skinny water 4) the boat is trailerable by a wider range of vehicles as it lighter than most boats of the same size.

You're in a classic trade-off area between light weight, low power, good economy, shallow draft and comfort in a seaway. If the boat is very light for it's waterplane area it reacts more quickly and with more motion than does a boat that has more weight for the same waterplane area. Also the broader boat tends to react more abruptly than a narrow boat (given equal lengths).

Comfort and safety are not one in the same; the CD25 can be quite safe in really ugly situations but not necessarily the most comfortable of boats. But if you go for the most comfortable boat in the rough stuff you won't get the things the CD25 does best. It's always (always) a compromise.

Getting out of your 18-foot Bayliner into the C-Dory 25 is like getting out of a Toyota Echo and getting into a Chevy Suburban. Regardless of how you think the Suburban stacks up against other vehicles in its class it's vastly different from the Echo. The CD25 will be vastly more comfortable in all situations than the Bayliner 18; the more complex issue is how it stacks up for your individual needs to others in it's class. That's tough because there really aren't many; anything with a deep-v hull is a different beast entirely and that's most of what's hyped and there aren't a lot of choices in the niche that the C-Dory 25 occupies.

The bottom line is: you have to prioritize. Only you can decide what the most important characteristics are and then purchase a boat that meets them (usually there isn't one but you come as close as you can). Too many folks focus on the things they really like but not on the ones they don't and in the long run it's the negatives that gain the most attention.
 
Thanks for the information thus far. For those who have owned other styles of boats, (i.e. other 25' cruisers with say a 17 degree degree deadrise and higher weights), what was your experience in moving to the C-25?
 
Matt... if the smoother ride is a true driving factor in your next boat, the same folks build a lot more...."ruff water" type boat.... the skagit orca.

You might find a deal or two on them in the southeastern dealership area due to the boat not being yet known to the locals. A bit more spendy, some of the comprimises that Les and others have spoken of... but smoother..

http://www.skagitorca.com/
 
What fuel economy are people seeing with the CD-25 and a Honda 135 or 150?

Mike
 
I love the Orca's but I can't prioritize that kind of cash for the next boat. No wood is a great idea for sure.

--Matt
 
Hi Matt,
My CD25 gets abt 3.8-4.0NM/g @ 7kts with 2x90hp HONDAs. At cruise @ abt 18-19kts I get abt 2.9-3.4NM/g. The spread I attribute to the wind loading of the sail area. Below 7kts the mileage goes up radically.

The chop here on the lower Ches. Bay is the same as I have experienced within the Boston Harbor area, inside Boston light. I grewup in N. Weymouth- power boated, sailed (raced) and worked for the local Harbor Master there.

Last year I took the CD25 on a 500NM cruise last June and experienced everything from soupy fog to 6'+ waves with 20+kt winds, T. Storms & water spouts and never once felt unsure of the boat's abilities. [ I did not play with the water spouts. ]

Yes the windshield did get wet, but I felt more safe in my CD25 than any of the boats I have been in the past, in lengths of 30', or less; including Grady Whites. [ Patrolling with the Coast Guard Aux.]

As other have noted, you have to exercise the 'seaman's eye and good judgement. Just as you learned the characteristics of your Bayliner, you will have do the same with whatever replacement you buy. [ I jumped from an 18' Sea Ray, OB, Bowrider.] I took my CD25 out into various conditions that taught me a little more each time till I felt I could tackle the 500NM cruise. It was time well spent, for even with the 6' wave action the ride was handled with confidence and it was smooth, all be it a roller-coaster ride. I would do it again. My wife even felt at ease.

The cabin space is so much more than any other boat this size, to date. I'm 6'2" and I have plenty of walk around and standing room. The cockpit is large enough for a variety of working functions. I'm sure there are folks out there who would love to showoff their CDs.

I was at the marina today working on another project and was interrupted 3 times[all welcomed so I could brag] to show her off. I have the only CD25 in the area for the moment, but these folks asked where they could get one and if mine was available...... HECK NO, not for sale.

Good luck in your search and welcome to the gang.
 
Sea Angel explained his experience on what Les eluded to, one more 'pro' characteristic common to all the C-Dory's, they are hands-down far more stable in big seas. Not that you can get up and ride on a plane all the time, but the big seas I've encountered in my CD-25 (and I'm talking 6-10 ft breaking waves), I felt quite secure and comfortable because this boat does NOT over-roll in waves like a deep-vee.

That one characteristic in my book is worth any of the cons this boat might have. You will be comfortable and relaxed (subjective) at the end of a big day. Just my 2c.
 
To answer the question about the comparison to a 17 degree dead rise and a CD 25--about the same, if you keep the bow down. To get true rough water capability you need to go the a boat like the Contender or Regulator--with a 23 to 26 degree dead rise--but these are not cabin boats. Also these are not cheap.
 
Are you calling a C-Dory cheap.....??!!!! :shock:
 
In 2005, Journey On (25') cost as much as the 36' Catalina sailboat we bought in 1992. All that stuff must go with the price of gas. I'm not calling C-Dorys cheap.

Boris
 
Nope, C Dories are not cheap. I suspect a 26 foot Regulator is more expensive than a C Dory 25 however. A 26 foot Regulator sold at post hurricane action with the first 3 feet totally crushed for over $110,000.
 
Boris,
You are so right. The CDs are not cheap.... They are just not inexpensive. BUT, I feel I got more boat BANG for my buck than any other could have delivered in the market. :lol:

My 2cs worth.
 
I have heard numbers that are on a CD25 that I have never even come close to. When I am running my boat with a heavy load I can get at best 2 NM/gal. When it is light, about 2.3-2.4 NM/gal. I run in a lot of win/current and seas but I have never even approached 3 NM/gal. at any speed above displacement speeds. I have tried many different props, Les can verify that, but they all don't change the efficiency that much but they do radically change the performance.

Fred
 
Anita Marie":2499ai0m said:
I have heard numbers that are on a CD25 that I have never even come close to. When I am running my boat with a heavy load I can get at best 2 NM/gal. When it is light, about 2.3-2.4 NM/gal. I run in a lot of win/current and seas but I have never even approached 3 NM/gal. at any speed above displacement speeds. I have tried many different props, Les can verify that, but they all don't change the efficiency that much but they do radically change the performance.

Fred
Click to expand...
Thank you Fred! I too have never come close to the numbers others claim and thought it was just the way I was powered. I run a Suzuki 150. I also do not get on plane until I reach @ 16 maybe 18mph when loaded.
 
I had to increase the trim tab size to 50% larger than factory installed. It used to fall off a plane about 12-13 nmph, now it planes all the way down to 8 nmph unless there are people in the cockpit while underway (sitting on their tackle boxes...! I have twin Yami 80's which are somewhat heavier than a single and kicker (but not much), so figured the extra trim tab area helped that as well.
 
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