Oil is here

Umm, well were I a TV reporter wanting to do a shot with the oil stained beach in the background I would hire Bubba and his 12 ga shotgun to accompany me... When some pissant hired by BP to run folks off comes around to tell me I can't do that, I would have Bubba explain to him that BP does not own the public beaches - and of course I would have the camera running on that conversation in time for the 6 oclock and 11 oclock news... But then I just have problem with pissants attempting to control my life...

denny-o
 
Based on what I have read on this site and elsewhere, it is my belief that the three foreign corporations involved should be tried for egregious malfesance and wreckless manslaughter. When/if convicted, the judge should consider their record of previous violations, remorse, and of course, "integrity', before sentencing their officers to prison. Hopefully their assets in the US would be seized and used to make the environment, the fish and wildlife, and the people affected, whole.
 
Marty, while I agree that this is a terrible situation, I don't think you can "try a corporation". If you could and they were found guilty, who would you put in jail? The CEO, all the company officers, or maybe all the stockholders?

A lot of folks are shooting from the hip here, Ready, Fire, Aim.....

How was the trip? Sounds like you had a great time, hope you're back home now!

Charlie
 
Roger,
Thanks for correcting my post. I had done the calculations in the middle of the night and was misreading my notes--and it actually was ten ^ 12--the 10^18 the rough calculation for the entire gulf. Thanks again. The dilution I was referring to was the Corexit, not the oil. There is a better chance that the Corexit will be dispersed more than the oil, unless it is bound. The oil will stay in aggregates. The fractions of oil which are being found in 3000 feet (and other)possibilities.

I don't mean to minimize the effects of this; but we just don't have any idea at this point what the long term effects will be. I just hate to see the mass hysteria which comes with this. Of course we can thank our rapid information systems for a lot of that.

There are some outrageous comments-such as tar and feather/drown the CEO. Try foreign corporations etc. Do not forget that a large number of mutual funds, pension funds and other private holdings own these corporations. Some seem to make this entire issue seem intentional. I suspect that if was Chevron or Exxon who had the accident, that the outcome would be exactly the same. No company was prepared for this worse case leak.

I went out the very first day booms were deployed off Orange Beach--over a month ago, and they were not properly anchored. Some were in "S" shapes, others had drug ashore. In calm water, they are OK. That is why "My" boom is deployed in an area not subject to any wave action--it is anchored well at both sides. Ideally you would have an oil absorbent in the boom or just outside of it fixed to the boom.
 
dotnmarty":1jxb45sm said:
Based on what I have read on this site and elsewhere, it is my belief that the three foreign corporations involved should be tried for egregious malfesance and wreckless manslaughter. When/if convicted, the judge should consider their record of previous violations, remorse, and of course, "integrity', before sentencing their officers to prison. Hopefully their assets in the US would be seized and used to make the environment, the fish and wildlife, and the people affected, whole.
Click to expand...

This ties nicely into the debate about whether corporations should be given the rights of "persons" in the eyes of the law. I hope this event helps swing the pendulum back toward restricting the rights of corporate personhood.

Warren
 
thataway":qqcuc8sq said:
. I just hate to see the mass hysteria which comes with this. Of course we can thank our rapid information systems for a lot of that.

There are some outrageous comments-such as tar and feather/drown the CEO. Try foreign corporations etc. Do not forget that a large number of mutual funds, pension funds and other private holdings own these corporations. Some seem to make this entire issue seem intentional. I suspect that if was Chevron or Exxon who had the accident, that the outcome would be exactly the same. No company was prepared for this worse case leak.
Click to expand...

There is no mass hysteria-what there is is a full spectrum of concern about an obstensibly avoidable disaster. Just read the BP inhouse emails ordering that corners be cut.

As Warren points out, the Roberts court has declared that corporations are legal persons. As such they have both rights and responsibilities.

These are foreign corporations involved. To identify them as such is simply a statement of fact.

I have no comment on the statement that " a large number of mutual funds, pension funds and other private holdings own these corporations.'"

MartyP
 
Hi,
I'm with Marty, it seems no one has to take responsibility for their actions these days. I'm thinking trying the stock holders might be a stretch, but why not have the gumint seize BP's U.S. assets and give the change when they are done cleaning up the mess,when ever that will be. Where is Halliburton in all this? I'm going watch the state of the mess address tonight. I'm strapping myself down to my lazy boy for some serious spin control just in case. This a very scary time for those effected. I never thought New Jersey would look so good. :xseek

D.D.
 
So sad. I went to my favorite beach and the shoreline had numerous tar-patties. Not saturated,but too many to count. During the fifteen minutes I was there, a lifeguard paddled out twenty yards and rescued an oil-covered Northern Gannut
The emerald coast wildlife people carried it away. All this was being photographed by CNN. No one was cleaning the beach. Supposed to be worse tomorrow.

So sad!
 
The last thing which you would want is to destroy BP. BP's profit from the US production will probably not cover the clean up costs. They could have walked away day one--and there are some in todays world who would have done that.
If you don't know who the share holders are, then a bit of research would certainly be in order.

"Foreign companies"--and just who staff these companies? Who are the share holders? Where do the profits and income for the "Foreign" companies go? Take Halliburton (second largest in its class in the World)--because of tax laws, some of the subsidieries are registered overseas. Transocean (Largest in its class in the world)--same applies as to why it is an international company. Cameron--Same-all have major headquarters in Houston, all are top players in international oil drilling. All are listed on the NYSE. Folks it is the world we live in. Multinationals are what do the business, especially at this scale. They have incorporation status in the US-and elsewhere. Same as some "American" companies. For example GE. (and I can name hundreds more).

Seize BP assets? You have to be kidding. Are you thinking about the franchise service stations? Refineries, pipelines--or other drilling rigs. Who would operate them? Sounds like what is being done in Venzuela.

What is going to happen now, with the drilling mortorium, is that all of the best and newest drilling rigs are heading to Brazil for their offshore fields; and elsewhere. This means jobs in the US lost--maybe for a long time.

What has come out in the last few days seems to confirm the fracture of the sea bed/perhaps casing etc. The statement was made today in front of Congress committee under oath, that there would be no more attempt at sealing off the well from the top. This indicates to me, that just sealing the BOP or pipe above the sea floor would not do the job. No one is admitting this, because the thought is too frightening and economically divistating.
 
Stolf-thanks for the public chiding. I only point out what the consiquences are of what I consider to be hysterical responses to a very bad situation.

This oil spill affects me personally in many ways--probably more than anyone else on this form-- perhaps with a couple of exceptions--since I am both on the front line of the oil spill because of the location of my waterfront home, and I run an investment company.

Running a large corporation is a very difficult business. Everyone wants to "Blame" someone. The CEO of BP is taking his licks. Some seem to be painting with a broad brush a narrow interputation of a recent Supreme Court decision.

On the reality scene there is some oil in Bayou Chico, the boating center of Pensacola. Perdido pass booms are not working--and the large floating pipe and piling system is being built, but not before the wind shifts back to the South in the next couple of days. The oil has, unfortunately, been drifting to the East, and threatening the beaches of Destin.
 
Many of you may have seen this already, but here is a link to an interesting op-ed by Thomas Friedman in the NYTimes a few days ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/13/opinion/13friedman.html?ref=thomaslfriedman

Indeed, there is plenty of blame to go around. All of us share in this to some degree, since if it weren't for our (collective) appetite for cheap oil, companies like BP wouldn't have the same economic incentive to drill and cut corners.
 
i've been following this tread and have found all post very interesting as well as informative. i tend not to post on subjects i have little or know experience with, but reserve the right to do so, however, i find it very disappointing that stolf would suggest that another c-brat limit his post to subjects that stolf apparently believes he only has knowledge of. stolf, i'm not slamming you, just would suggest that this site is dedicated for the exchange of ideas, if you or anyone else disagree with subject matter then i would recommend your comments correcting what you believe was stated incorrect, not attacking the author. as for dr. bob, a senior c-brat poster, as well as an individual who has given much valued advice that many c-brats have profited by, not sure how one could direct any derogatory statement his way.
best regards to all
pat
 
Well said, Pat.

stlof - many of us have been guilty at one time or another of unnecessary personal jabs, so I'm not going to pick on you too badly. And, Bob's thoughts on this issue are certainly open to reasoned and calm debate. His opinions are far from universal around here on the topic; you're certainly not alone in disagreeing with his opinions.

Still - you did cross the line into BUCB (Behavior Unbecoming a C-Brat), so please try and keep comments related to content, not authors. We're simply better than that around here - and that "we" includes you, judging from your previous posts.

A beer to a C-Brat of your choice will serve as your penance. And no - you can't drink it yourself. :mrgreen:
 
Ladies & Gentlemen - We do have a mechanism we can exercise to avoid using our general forum in a personal way. I have received private messages and have sent some myself on subjects that others might construe to be offensive. Da Nag and Tyboo have provided us with a sophisticated website. We need to avail ourselves of that. End of lecture.
Send me a private message if you disagree. John
 
I've been busy lately. It looks like I missed out on some of the fun around here. :)

thataway":yvhyev1e said:
The last thing which you would want is to destroy BP.
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Dr. Bob is correct. We really don't want BP to crumble. We need them to do as they have promised: do everything they can to stop the oil flowing into the gulf, and then we need them to clean up the disaster.

Remember that if BP is destroyed, a lot of Americans will be out of jobs. And a lot of Americans will take big loses in their retirement plans. This is true also for many Britons, and we don't want that for them either. Let's not forget that they are an important ally, and that they too didn't cause this disaster.

thataway":yvhyev1e said:
Seize BP assets? You have to be kidding. Are you thinking about the franchise service stations? Refineries, pipelines--or other drilling rigs. Who would operate them? Sounds like what is being done in Venzuela.
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Right again. Does anyone here actually think this situation would actually be better if our government seized BP's assets? Then what? The government sells the assets off to cover the costs of the cleanup? Do we think that sell-off would be an efficient, orderly process? And then, does anyone here actually think that our government is the right entity to clean up this disaster?

As I mentioned above, we cannot forget about all those people that will lose their jobs, and take a big hit in their retirement plans if BP collapses.

thataway":yvhyev1e said:
What is going to happen now, with the drilling mortorium, is that all of the best and newest drilling rigs are heading to Brazil for their offshore fields; and elsewhere. This means jobs in the US lost--maybe for a long time.
Click to expand...
Correct here too. The six month moratorium put a lot of Americans out of work, and further strains our oil supply. Let's face it, we need oil. Including all of us boaters here. Solar powered TomCat anyone? Not likely.

And it is a reality that if the platforms can't drill here, they will drill elsewhere. And when they go, so do those jobs. And it will be many years before they return.

It would have been reasonable to order immediate and thorough inspections of all drilling platforms, but shutting them down was nothing more than a political maneuver.

Did we miss that part where the Administration said that the experts recommended this moratorium, only to find out that the experts actually are completely against it?

And let's not forget that there is a bunch of oil here in this country that we could drill much safer than in the middle of the gulf, but we can't, because the government is in the way.

thataway":yvhyev1e said:
What has come out in the last few days seems to confirm the fracture of the sea bed/perhaps casing etc.
Click to expand...
On this point, Dr. Bob, I really hope you are wrong. Because if this is true, that well is going to dump oil into the gulf for another couple of months until they get that relief well finished. By then, at least 300 million gallons will have dumped into the gulf. Dear God.

Here's another thought. I know we are all angry about this disaster, and it will negatively impact us all. But it's going to be much worse for those on the gulf coast than those of us who don't live there. So we should not be so quick to discount the opinions of those whose lives will be most affected by this disaster.

And finally I just want to say that I have learned a whole bunch from Dr. Bob, and so many other C-Brats here who are completely willing to share their time and tremendous experience. And if you have read through Dr. Bob's posts, you know that he is not at all flippant, judgmental, or uninformed.

Sure we all may not always agree here on the forum. But there is no reason we can't be friendly in our disagreements. And actually, friendly debate can be and enjoyable and enlightening experience.

Ok I have said my piece. Beers all around and I'm buying. :beer :)
---
mike
 
I did send a PM to Dr Bob voicing my support of his intelligent views.

One additional point, everyone seems to be focusing on the "energy" aspect - as in fuel. Has everyone forgotten the other "products" from oil - how about medicine, paint, fiberglass (oh no, the boats have to be built of wood again - where from?) chemicals, fertilizer and on and on. Alternative energy.... lots of luck if you don't have the petroleum necessary for the plastic components.

Gotta go sit in the corner now - I'll take a Scotch, can't do beer.
 
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