Oil is here
- Thread starter thataway
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We're hopin the best for you and Marie, Bob.
Denise and I are back in MN for the summer now and watching things a number of times every day. No oil yet in the Bon Secour River but awful close. The north side of Fort Morgan isn't very far away and the last thing we want to hear about is oil all over our new boathouse and the loss of the ecosystem there. They have boom ready to deploy across the mouth to stop it.
You know I don't get the Coast Guard and their "can't impede navigation " thinking. This ia a national disaster for crying out loud. Lets get with the program here.......STOP THE OIL IF YOU CAN... period. Screw navigation til the threat has been dealt with.
Good luck with the boom, Bob. If I was down there I'd come and help you put it out.
We'll be back in the fall, hope to see you then.......unoiled.
Dan
Denise and I are back in MN for the summer now and watching things a number of times every day. No oil yet in the Bon Secour River but awful close. The north side of Fort Morgan isn't very far away and the last thing we want to hear about is oil all over our new boathouse and the loss of the ecosystem there. They have boom ready to deploy across the mouth to stop it.
You know I don't get the Coast Guard and their "can't impede navigation " thinking. This ia a national disaster for crying out loud. Lets get with the program here.......STOP THE OIL IF YOU CAN... period. Screw navigation til the threat has been dealt with.
Good luck with the boom, Bob. If I was down there I'd come and help you put it out.
We'll be back in the fall, hope to see you then.......unoiled.
Dan
Ted Osborne
New member
Dr. Bob. When Donna and myself saw that the well would not be capped overnight we wondered of the possibility it might reach your area. From your comments looks like our worst fears are with you. What a sad situation. Our prayers are with you and all the others on the east coast.
To answer the questions--yes there are at least 17 major bayous and estuaries which will be boomed off. This count goes to at least 27 when you include the nearby Alabama areas.
So far "No oil" in the bays. But if it is on the beach--small amounts are getting into the bays.
I would say that upland and inland areas have much less chance of being effected. Jimmy Buffett's new Hotel (actually owned by a local) is opening on Pensacola Beach in a couple of weeks still. Although there is oil, this AM the crews were on the beach at 6 AM and sand looked fairly good by 10 AM (high tide). There are still lots of people at the beach--but the phones are not ringing for reservations. As Marc--most of our tourist dollar is summer time. So another loss of a season is bad. We lost at least 3 due to hurricanes. Things were finally back to normal-6 years after Ivan (although some houses are still not rebuilt).
So far "No oil" in the bays. But if it is on the beach--small amounts are getting into the bays.
I would say that upland and inland areas have much less chance of being effected. Jimmy Buffett's new Hotel (actually owned by a local) is opening on Pensacola Beach in a couple of weeks still. Although there is oil, this AM the crews were on the beach at 6 AM and sand looked fairly good by 10 AM (high tide). There are still lots of people at the beach--but the phones are not ringing for reservations. As Marc--most of our tourist dollar is summer time. So another loss of a season is bad. We lost at least 3 due to hurricanes. Things were finally back to normal-6 years after Ivan (although some houses are still not rebuilt).
I spent all day in the store trying to grasp what our role will be in the habitat oiling prevention and cleanup arenas . I found that there are lot of boats in the "Vessels of Opportunity" Program that have been "activated" out practicing today , looking for oil and familiarizing themselves with the bay .Rumors are flying, people with little or no interest in the bay are collecting checks , and that in turn has made it difficult for folks that truly rely on this resource to get help. Unfortunately the locals that know the bay best , the oystermen, have vessels that are subsistence boats and will not stand the type of work they are now hired for . The inshore Charter fishermen have a much better chance of making a few weeks of work .The non locals that say they're boats are located here are collecting monies that should remain in the hands of locals . BP cannot discern who is who. The pay and handouts from BP are causing some locals that dont work or have unrelated jobs to get saltwater products licenses one day and collecting 5k checks from BP the next . Human nature is rearing its sometimes ugly side . We have such a pristine resource to protect here , and its so taxing to see it managed in a haphazard way . Our goal at Wefings is to stay in business so my staff can have careers they can count on . Maybe there will be an opportunity to replace our normal businesses . Maybe folks will take a long ,long time to return and we will all have to reconfigure our lives and business models . It very stressful for all . Just trying to cope, be smart and be open to find ways to help .I might be going on my last offshore fishing trip for the foreseeable future tomorrow. That makes me sad , cause I know its a very real possibility .
Marc
Marc
Simplicity
New member
We put our boat in near panama city and it sounds like only a few days before oil arrives. I read that some of the oil may go up the east coast all the way to the carolinas and beyond. Depressing.
Complex technologies can and will fail in unexpected ways . As tragic as this is , I'm glad this wasn't a nuclear accident. That could kill or sicken countless people as well as make an area uninhabitable for thousands of years.They are building two new plants in Georgia and say they are safe. Interesting that the manufacturer made sure they have limited liability. I hope Homer Simpson doesn't go to work there.
Sorry if I strayed to far from the thread-just something on my mind. Alan
Complex technologies can and will fail in unexpected ways . As tragic as this is , I'm glad this wasn't a nuclear accident. That could kill or sicken countless people as well as make an area uninhabitable for thousands of years.They are building two new plants in Georgia and say they are safe. Interesting that the manufacturer made sure they have limited liability. I hope Homer Simpson doesn't go to work there.
Sorry if I strayed to far from the thread-just something on my mind. Alan
Fleece":115hes8o said:
I think the concern is much broader than just the environmental impact studies. First there's the issue of whether sand berms will even work. As berms are put in place, the tidal currents in the areas where the berms aren't will get much stronger since the water behind them now has a much smaller area to escape out of. The net effect is not clear but it seems likely that the berm ends could be rapidly washed away or that oil could wind up concentrated by the currents.
Second, the hurricane season will soon be upon us. Do you really believe that 6' high sand bars will withstand the first hurricane? I don't and neither do many of the people weighing the option of building sand bars.
Third, once the beaches are soiled, the soiled sand will need to be replaced and in many cases that sand will come from the same areas being dredged to produce the sand bars.
The point is the outcome of building sand bars is far from clear and they may be of limited utility and cause more problems than they solve especially once hurricane season gets going.
I don't claim to know the answers but I don't think anyone does right now. That's one of the most frustrating parts of this "slow motion train wreck". The only thing that's obvious (in hindsight) is that it would have been good to put more safeguards in place awhile ago (prior to the problem occurring).
We have many happy memories of the Florida Panhandle. Pensacola and Destin beaches are beautiful. We have video of our puppy frolicking in the water with the boat on the beach. Fun times. Bob, Marc, everyone...we're thinking of you folks. This just sucks from every angle. Hope somebody figures something out real quick.
There are still lots of folks enjoying the beach--and swimming. Some get a little oil product on them, otherslas don't.
Marc makes some excellent points--which we have seen here. I went to a meeting which I had been told was for "home owners"--it turned out to be for "fishermen" and organized by one of the big legal outfits. (who I don't have a lot of respect for, since they use the Riverkeeper system to get business).
There were very few real fishermen there--There is a local criticism that many of the boats are owned by wealthy folks--and not folks who make their living from the resources of the sea.
Marc--I can say that West Marine is doing a brisk business--sold over 80K worth of anchors locally last week. I saw Dave Posner, and he says he is getting a lot of repiar work--so there may be some spin off for your business. This is only temporary, and does not metigate the damage done by the oil or to lives.
I have very mixed feelings about the clean up ths sand. It is a never ending process--and the amount of sand moved with shovels and hoes is minimal. There have been beach "renurishment" projects--in the 20's of millions in costs. Often the sand is inferior to the natural sand, even with a best "match". Also these restored beaches, usually wash away with the next storm. The moral, is that people probably should nto build structures on barrier Islands..but they do.
The local word was that some oil was found up in Mobile bay--at Fairhope. I have not personally varified that. So far all of our mainas and bayous/bays are open.
Marc makes some excellent points--which we have seen here. I went to a meeting which I had been told was for "home owners"--it turned out to be for "fishermen" and organized by one of the big legal outfits. (who I don't have a lot of respect for, since they use the Riverkeeper system to get business).
There were very few real fishermen there--There is a local criticism that many of the boats are owned by wealthy folks--and not folks who make their living from the resources of the sea.
Marc--I can say that West Marine is doing a brisk business--sold over 80K worth of anchors locally last week. I saw Dave Posner, and he says he is getting a lot of repiar work--so there may be some spin off for your business. This is only temporary, and does not metigate the damage done by the oil or to lives.
I have very mixed feelings about the clean up ths sand. It is a never ending process--and the amount of sand moved with shovels and hoes is minimal. There have been beach "renurishment" projects--in the 20's of millions in costs. Often the sand is inferior to the natural sand, even with a best "match". Also these restored beaches, usually wash away with the next storm. The moral, is that people probably should nto build structures on barrier Islands..but they do.
The local word was that some oil was found up in Mobile bay--at Fairhope. I have not personally varified that. So far all of our mainas and bayous/bays are open.
Finally a shred of good news:
http://blog.al.com/live/2010/06/gulf_spill_containment_cap_off.html
441,000 gallons recovered Sat. compared to 250,000 on Fri. with the latest containment cap. There are more vents yet to close on the cap so if they don't ice up there's actually some hope for additional control.
We are keeping our fingers crossed.
Dan
http://blog.al.com/live/2010/06/gulf_spill_containment_cap_off.html
441,000 gallons recovered Sat. compared to 250,000 on Fri. with the latest containment cap. There are more vents yet to close on the cap so if they don't ice up there's actually some hope for additional control.
We are keeping our fingers crossed.
Dan
Good news indeed. However, I see that the estimates now are that between 500,000 and 1,000,000 gallons per day have been pumping into the gulf, when the initial estimates were only 5,000 gallons per day.Fishhawk":3gjhogb3 said:
I wonder what else we have been kept in the dark on. And though I'll refrain from political commentary (because I have seen the fur fly in some older posts), I think we can all agree that this whole thing has been horribly bungled all along the way.
Many, many heads should roll over this. But they won't.
It's the people of the gulf (an maybe up the eastern coast, apparently) that will suffer greatly because of the idiocy. And at some level, we all will pay for it.
And the damage to wildlife and the environment is incalculable.
I miss the good old days...
---
mike
Most of us operate car(s), or planes, or RVs, or boats, or a combination of all of these oil burning vehicles. This drives our country's insatiable demand for oil....cheap oil. While I don't feel directly responsible for the spill, I think we all share in the creation of the demand, which in turn has made it extremely profitable, and necessary to import millions of gallons a day. The US imports about 10 million barrels of oil each day. At 42 gallons per barrel of oil, we are importing about 400,000,000 gallons of oil per day. These are the kinds of numbers which encourage the taking of risks by the oil industry. There are lots of directions to point to lay blame. Increased regulation, closer monitoring of drilling practices, and endless hours of Congressional questioning will all help to lessen the chance of future catastrophic failures leading to spills. But, there are still humans involved.
That's a valid point, but it's not going to get any better until we Americans demand alternatives. Maybe this disaster will motivate us to do just that. Somehow, I doubt it.cbgale":2frs0kd7 said:
Again, I agree, but did we little guys, people like you and me - and especially those on the gulf coast, realize just how much risk there was? Could any of us in our wildest dreams foreseen the scope of this disaster? I think not. This is the type of thing that we rely on our government for. And look where that got us.cbgale":2frs0kd7 said:
There certainly will be that. And maybe it will prevent something like this happening again. But as you said, we as a nation have a big demand for oil. That means we can't clamp down too hard on the oil spigot or we cause more damage to an already screwed up economy.cbgale":2frs0kd7 said:
What's the answer? I don't know. So I am the wrong person to ask. I am sure, though, that the political finger-pointing is going to be something to watch.
Well there is where we disagree. I have no faith in our Congress or our Government to get this right. Partly because it is a difficult problem, partly because they will all be too busy with the finger-pointing and playing their political games rather than doing the work of the people.cbgale":2frs0kd7 said:
And so I see that I got a little political after all.
---
mike
Westfield 11
New member
Part of the root problem is that while we, the people, were relying on the government to regulate and control risk, the government seems to have been relying on the oil companies to do it for them. Is there anyone who today thinks that was a good idea?
Bob,
I can't imagine how anyone can see how much this will hurt the Gulf Coast. The industries tied to the fishing industry, marinas, marine suppliers, bait shops, seafood wholesalers, restaurants, real estate, hotels, tourism in general. After some were just getting back on their feet after Katrina. A lot of people will be out of work with no way to pay their bills. More foreclosures, more defaults from houses to boats and loans of every kind. Decades before the fish, oysters and crabs and tourists come back. It is amazing to me with all the laws in this country that there were almost no safe guards or contingency plans for spills for deep water operations. In New Jersey they call the EPA for minor fuel spills at the gas docks and car wrecks if there is more than a few gallons of oil. I see emergency response lockers for containment of spills at the fuel docks in Marinas. I took my grand kids out crabbing for the first time last weekend. I looked at the little cove we were crabbing in and tried to imagine it covered with oil. It will be a long time for some areas in the gulf to enjoy the simple pleasures of crabbing and clamming with their grand children, so very sad.
D.D.
I can't imagine how anyone can see how much this will hurt the Gulf Coast. The industries tied to the fishing industry, marinas, marine suppliers, bait shops, seafood wholesalers, restaurants, real estate, hotels, tourism in general. After some were just getting back on their feet after Katrina. A lot of people will be out of work with no way to pay their bills. More foreclosures, more defaults from houses to boats and loans of every kind. Decades before the fish, oysters and crabs and tourists come back. It is amazing to me with all the laws in this country that there were almost no safe guards or contingency plans for spills for deep water operations. In New Jersey they call the EPA for minor fuel spills at the gas docks and car wrecks if there is more than a few gallons of oil. I see emergency response lockers for containment of spills at the fuel docks in Marinas. I took my grand kids out crabbing for the first time last weekend. I looked at the little cove we were crabbing in and tried to imagine it covered with oil. It will be a long time for some areas in the gulf to enjoy the simple pleasures of crabbing and clamming with their grand children, so very sad.
D.D.
First we have to all realize that this was an accident. There are 28 deep water wells currently active out of over 3000 wells in the US gulf coast waters. 7 are deeper than this one which failed. The last big spill in the gulf was in the late 70's and didn't get much press since it was off Mexico.
People made mistakes. Some were those on the rig, some were administration and some were engineers, and of course there is always the wish to "blame" the government.
A few years ago, I was involved in environmental work--even registered as an Environmental engineer in Florida. I formed several 501 c3 corps for envioromental causes. But the biggest frustration was dealing with the bureacy of the government. Superfund sites were not being cleaned, politics were being played, Lawyers were making money and the people harmed were not getting relief. So I don't have a lot of faith in government regulation; 10 years ago or now.
As for beach clean up--this is a dog and pony show. There are sand rakes and separaters, which will work much better than the men on the shore, and there are techologies for capture of oil/moose in these machines. But so far BP has refused to pay for one of the machines for our local beach. It does not take long for 600 hired people, who seem to work less than 50% of the time, to add up to $87,000 the cost of one of these machines.... On the other hand, I am not sure that skimmers on the water are much of the answer--there is way too much area, and with any seas, they are less than peak effeciency.
Then there is the media....they can made a diseaster out of anything. Yes, there are consiquences. But Pensacola, the number one facet of the economy is the Navy, second is Health care, Next is education and then tourism. Fishing is pretty much dead in this area; there are a few charter boats. Panama City and Orange beach have a much larger charter fishing trade. Lousiania has a far greater loss from the sea food industry, Same for Apalachicola--along with tourism. There will be an impact on tourism, but in Pensacola, but not as much as some other areas. On the other hand, you have people in Tampa and Miami yelling that they are injured. Not so, at this point.
Yes, it is going to definately impact our recreational boating and fishing. Hopefully only for a few months.
I believe that Lousiania will be a long time recovering. But the restorative power of marshes are amazing. Hopefully more oil will be collected, and the spill stopped. It is hard to know if the government and BP are listening to everyone who has ideas out of the box (and I don't mean the gal with the tires or the farmers with straw)--but there are some pretty bright scientists who have ideas which have been submitted and seem to be ignored by both BP and the Government.
As it is right now..and it will change... it is still nice to go to the beach. There are a few tar balls (more of a moose, than the weathered tar we were used to in Calif.), but it is pleasant to sit on the sand and swim in the gulf.
People made mistakes. Some were those on the rig, some were administration and some were engineers, and of course there is always the wish to "blame" the government.
A few years ago, I was involved in environmental work--even registered as an Environmental engineer in Florida. I formed several 501 c3 corps for envioromental causes. But the biggest frustration was dealing with the bureacy of the government. Superfund sites were not being cleaned, politics were being played, Lawyers were making money and the people harmed were not getting relief. So I don't have a lot of faith in government regulation; 10 years ago or now.
As for beach clean up--this is a dog and pony show. There are sand rakes and separaters, which will work much better than the men on the shore, and there are techologies for capture of oil/moose in these machines. But so far BP has refused to pay for one of the machines for our local beach. It does not take long for 600 hired people, who seem to work less than 50% of the time, to add up to $87,000 the cost of one of these machines.... On the other hand, I am not sure that skimmers on the water are much of the answer--there is way too much area, and with any seas, they are less than peak effeciency.
Then there is the media....they can made a diseaster out of anything. Yes, there are consiquences. But Pensacola, the number one facet of the economy is the Navy, second is Health care, Next is education and then tourism. Fishing is pretty much dead in this area; there are a few charter boats. Panama City and Orange beach have a much larger charter fishing trade. Lousiania has a far greater loss from the sea food industry, Same for Apalachicola--along with tourism. There will be an impact on tourism, but in Pensacola, but not as much as some other areas. On the other hand, you have people in Tampa and Miami yelling that they are injured. Not so, at this point.
Yes, it is going to definately impact our recreational boating and fishing. Hopefully only for a few months.
I believe that Lousiania will be a long time recovering. But the restorative power of marshes are amazing. Hopefully more oil will be collected, and the spill stopped. It is hard to know if the government and BP are listening to everyone who has ideas out of the box (and I don't mean the gal with the tires or the farmers with straw)--but there are some pretty bright scientists who have ideas which have been submitted and seem to be ignored by both BP and the Government.
As it is right now..and it will change... it is still nice to go to the beach. There are a few tar balls (more of a moose, than the weathered tar we were used to in Calif.), but it is pleasant to sit on the sand and swim in the gulf.