Oil is here

Nice post Bob. I was not surprised by the interview with Adm Allen USCG tonite on ABC that showed how many agencies were involved in getting "permission" to do anything or action to get something done. Bureaucracy at its' worst!

There was a small town in Ala putting booms across the entrance to their little bay, who had asked permission weeks ago and could not find anyone who would give it to them. They did it anyway, the fire chief was in charge and doing quite a job. Its costing them $6K a day to rent the barges and booms and they are about out of money. Hopefully BP or someone will cough up some bucks to help. They said they'd ask for forgiveness later. Did that often in my 32 years in the USN, if I knew it was right, I did it. Never got blasted.

We think about you folks every day, knowing it could be us sometime.

Take care,

Charlie
 
We have been deluged with contractors here , its proactive here , as we dont have any oil yet. I met every contractor I could today and let them know we are here and available 24/7 for their marine needs . Wefings is 100 years old this year and I would like to see it continue .
BP had 60 boats [ Vessels of Opportunity] in the bay today burning fuel for no apparent reason except the afore mentioned dog and pony show.
The boom is being deployed by a company from Texas. The Boom is being monitored by a company from Palm Beach , FL .The VOO program is being run by another company. Pretty confusing , but Im sure Ill figure it out .
Trying to make lemonade out of lemons is our new motto.
Marc
 
Just crossed into Idaho. Speed limit 75. Lost one mile per gallon on my Ford hybrid. Maybe I should slow down.
Wehavemet01.jpg
 
I suppose I'm a bit more optimistic than you Bob regarding regulation. The bureaucratic nightmare (and environmental nightmare) we're all watching is in direct response to the lack of a robust regulatory regime around mineral extraction in the Gulf (or in any other area for that matter).

Following the Santa Barbara oil spill and the burning of the Cuyahoga River in 1969 there was a decade of effort expended to build a regulatory infrastructure that would be sufficient to preclude something like this. But, as we know, the deregulation efforts in the 1980s, and to a lesser extent in the 1990s, and then the abdication of any meaningful regulatory intent in the first part of this decade, has left a wild west of sorts in many areas. Regulation can not fix problems that have already occurred -- it can only preclude problems from happening in the first place.

We can all agree that this was a tragic accident -- but, so was Chernobyl. The question before us now (on a national level) is whether we respond in a manner that results in increased regulation or whether we continue to believe that the market will protect us. I don't trust government. I just trust BP (or any other private sector interest) less. Regulation, when done well, is a vehicle that provides balance between private interests (e.g,. the right to profit through one's labor or investment) and common interests (e.g., the right to pass on intact ecosystems to our children). More than that, regulation - when done right - provides balance between weak individual interests (such as shrimp fishers in the gulf) and strong interests (like BP).

If we learned everything we need to know in kindergarten than we know we need a clear set of rules on the playground, and we all need to abide by the same rules. Regulation is simply the process of establishing and enforcing those rules.

Finally, let's remember that electoral politics and regulation are two different animals. Members of congress and the president are political animals who live or die based on public opinion. Everything they do is calculated to minimize risk and maximize favor. Staff in regulatory agencies are professionals who live or die based on their ability to solve real world problems.

The bottom line is this -- we can't simultaneously blame regulation for failing to prevent this and blame government for being too regulatory. Pogo was right.

Matt
 
dotnmarty":3ljoimph said:
Just crossed into Idaho. Speed limit 75. Lost one mile per gallon on my Ford hybrid. Maybe I should slow down.

No that would be dangerous as everyone else is going real fast. Better to just draft off of a big gas guzzler in front of you. You'll get that 1MPG back.

Remember when we repealed the national 55MPH speed limit? I was in Az at the time that states were allowed to change the speed limit (1987 and 1988) and the governor himself was quite proud to nail up the first replacement 65MPH sign.
 
Yes, well, hmmm...I will be taking the Titan through Utah in September but no plans to take the F250...
rogerbum":1o0i3et3 said:
No that would be dangerous as everyone else is going real fast. Better to just draft off of a big gas guzzler in front of you. You'll get that 1MPG back.
 
Seriously, I can think of only three options:

1. Trust the oil industry to do the right thing;
2. Trust the government to do the right thing;
3. Let everyone who is hurt sue anyone who hurt them.

Well, I guess another option is don't even think about it, at least until the oil washes up on your own personal beach.

My heart goes out to all those who suffer from this mess.
 
The bottom line is this -- we can't simultaneously blame regulation for failing to prevent this and blame government for being too regulatory. Pogo was right.

Tortuga got this correct. Too bad Pogo is gone!
 
Matt-Tortuga
I have an entirely different view of the "professionalism" of regulatory agencies. This is based on both my personal experience as a physician, as an environmental professional and my families experience.

Medicine has been encumbered by regulation--and in fact has become worse for it--very complex and long story, starting mostly with medicare and medicaid. I have been involved in many levels of medicine over the last 50 years, from teaching, to practice, a year of fraud investigation for the government, and as an administrator.

In the environmental sector, I have watched a paper mill pollute for over 16 years operating under a conditional use permit and a $500 a day fine. The "solution" was a scheme--which made things worse--proposed by the Florida director of DEP, who then was hired by this large paper manufactuer at a greatly inflated salary...(in a position out of his area of expertise). I have known many members of our local DEP, who eventually defected and gone into private environmental work, because of the dishonesty and incopetence involved in the public process.

I saw the same level of incompetence at the Federal EPA. The "professionals" assigned to these clean up sites often lacked in basic knowledge and education. They were bound by rigid and senseless regulations.

I believe that it is a naive belief that regulatory and politics are separate--they are inter-related. My father (who was chief of division of electrical engineering, and later a vice president of S. Calif. Edison Co and graduate of Cal Tech,) testified multiple times before the State and Federal Public Utility Commission. Each time he came home shaking his head at the lack of professional competence in thoset organizations. It was even worse when he had to testify before a congressional committee.

Many of our local building inspectors are folks who could not make it in construction....

Back to the oil spill--we would not be having this conversation, except a number of humans made mistakes. As i understand what happened--there was misreading (initially) of pressure guages. The heavy "mud" had been removed and sea water was in the column. The top heavy protocol prevented some workers from throwing the switch to close the BOP immediately when the mistake was apparent. (it is not clear if the BOP wouldl have functioned, but the assumption was that it should have)

Now, should have then been two BOP's? Why was A BOP which has over 200 failure modes used (by Transocean)? Had there been both a electrical (battery) and hyraulic malfunction which prevented the BOP from closing? (again a Transocean responsibility)
Or was it a faulty design? Would have an acoustic controller, from the drilling rig allowed the BOP to function? Or should you have a separate vessel and crew with an acoustic controler on a boat standing by (ans subject to someone calling them by radio and authorizing closure of the BOP? From what I have read probably not. It would have been a back up (of a system, which may have failed otherwise).

Was double cassing mandated? Was the cement properly applied and tested? Was it defective? Again--how would have testing or government oversite have avoided this?

BP takes the hit because they have deep pockets and they were the leaser of the field--and thus hired TransOcean to do the drilling. But both Cameron (BOP manufactuer ) and Halliburton were also very much involved and at fault. However, the public outcry is against BP.

So what level of government oversite was at fault in this spill? Would it assure that human errors would not occur? Would it show that the BOP was indequate for the job (that would mean testing each BOP)--I can go down the list, including the actions of each individual as well as company...
Yes, companies have to take on responsibilities. But frankly deep wate offshore drilling is a very dangerous and difficult task. We as consumers demand the oil. Generally companies which make a bad product do not endure. This is a very difficult road to walk, even if you had competent people involved.

Please do not take this to mean that there are not some very good and dedicated government empolyees- there are. But there are also a number who are not, and there are regulations which hamper them. Don't even get me started on the IRS or the Depart of Agriculture--both of which I have some personal experience with their incompetence!

Yes, guidelilnes may be necessary, but that was what the permitting was about--and apparently BP did not even have to file a scenerio for a potential blowout, because they had done a site specific plan in Feb 2009.
 
There are "accidents" and then there are "accidents" just waiting to happen. BP's abysmal violation record speaks for itself. Exactly what "modifications" to the BOP were made by Transamerica at BP's behest and why?? Were these mods reviewed and approved by the regulatory agency? or are they allowed to just fiddle around with the failsafe device as they wish? I suspect it was to prevent "nuisance" activations in order to operate the rig beyond the original safety parameters of the device and ancillary equipment. This is why they are being held primarily responsible. It was their insistence of taking shortcuts in order to reduce costs and fiddling around with the BOP device that makes them directly culpable.
 
thataway":1q6j0qop said:
<stuff clipped>

Yes, guidelilnes may be necessary, but that was what the permitting was about--and apparently BP did not even have to file a scenerio for a potential blowout, because they had done a site specific plan in Feb 2009.

Is that the same site specific plan that mentions plans to protect the "Seals, sea otters and walruses" in the Gulf?

Also as to whether BP is to blame simply because they have deep pockets...

In the previous 5 years "OSHA statistics show BP ran up 760 "egregious, willful" safety violations, while Sunoco and Conoco-Phillips each had eight, Citgo had two and Exxon had one comparable citation. "

So it would appear to me that BP is to blame since they have the worst safety record of any major petroleum company operating in the US. I'd also blame the regulators that signed off on BP's site specific plan and the politicians who fill the regulatory positions with industry insiders and reduce/restricted regulatory enforcement.
 
This accident is sickening for all. Its spreading beyond comprehension and no real solution is in sight. It will take years for healing.

I wonder if the underlying profit motive is part of the problem! I know that accidents happen but when you are trying to make a buck, shortcuts and cost savings measures are instilled in all.

Maybe offshore deep water drilling needs to be completely scrutinized and a new model of operation developed that places environmental concerns as the top priority and profit something that happens after the oil is safely pumped.

Just because there has been success with other wells does not mean that the drillers have it right and now we face the huge costs of clean up if possible, and the loss of an economy that has been supportive of area people who are suffering like never before.

My heart reaches out to all impacted.
 
"underlying profit motive is part of the problem"

''PROFIT IS KING'' and proper drilling procedure is pushed to the limit .. in this case beyond

i can't find the post but their was one news article that stated their was rubber bits found in the screen !!! if that was the case the BOP was failing long before the the accident ..

but news being what it is ??? it has been squelched or maybe not right to start with ..

.. "keeping it simple" the mud lubricates the drill bit flush's the tailings back up, screened and the "drilling mud" is recycled back into the pipe . .. down time doesn't gain you points ...

job complacency (think thats the word) is why stupid accidents happen .. airplanes have run out of fuel, large passenger ferry's run into a island .. drillers ignore the signs and gauges till its to late ???

personally i don't think the gulf will ever recover enenvironmentally (back to what was normal), millions of gallons of oil just about finishes it .. it is now part of man's evolution on this earth ..

i keep track of the news and also praying for a end to the mess and for the people livening their ... wc
 
Folks nature is far more resiliant than you think. Sure in the areas of the highest concentrations of oil there will be damage for some time. There is a very large volume of water which flushes in and out of the gulf every day, via the gulf stream loop current. There ia a bad saying in environmentalism--"dilution is the solution". That is not good, but it is true. I had to laugh at the first reports of bacteria which were eating up the oil. Yes, there are bacteria which do metabolize oil, but not at that rapid a rate.

When we first moved to our current home--there was a stand of timber which had just been clear cut. It was a terriable blight. Today--8 years later the new stands of pine trees are over 10 feet high, and some over 15 feet. After Ivan, there was a swamp across the street which had severe salt water intrusion and was basically dead. Today, there is a diverse biosystem--different than the old--but well established witih trees whcih are over 15 feet tall in only 6 years--and the pines are starting to take back over, with a few cypress.

Drilling will continue--the economy will recover--it may be slightly different. But I doubt that anyone will "retire" on money from BP's pot.
 
Bob , what do you think all the toxic "Corexit" [ somewhere close to a million gallons]will add to this mix ? And what would your Ivan created swamp look like with a seawater, oil and Corexit cocktail thrown into the mix from the almost inevitable tropical systems we will get this season? Wonder what the deep water [3000'] coral patches [recently documented] that are 20 miles from the rig look like now ? What will my Grandson see when he comes for his fist fishing trip with Grandpa ? Wonder how old he will be when we can catch a winter Redfish again at Florabama? Recovery wont be fast enough for me .
Marc
 
Another angle on the sorting out who pays side.

BP chose to have no insurance, but instead be "self insured," that decision (gamble) may not be financially sustainable for the company
 
RJD Wannabe":3khddk76 said:
Another angle on the sorting out who pays side.

BP chose to have no insurance, but instead be "self insured," that decision (gamble) may not be financially sustainable for the company

But at least it looks like they'll have plenty of resources to cover walrus damage!
 
NORO LIM":2i4mcc44 said:
RJD Wannabe":2i4mcc44 said:
Another angle on the sorting out who pays side.

BP chose to have no insurance, but instead be "self insured," that decision (gamble) may not be financially sustainable for the company

But at least it looks like they'll have plenty of resources to cover walrus damage!

Saw the walrus thing on CNN this afternoon. Also saw their "expert to go to" listed from the wrong University who actually died in 1998. What a great cleanup plan they issued in 2009 and what a government goofball, whomever he/she was that approved it.

And 700+ OSHA violations compared to the nearest oil company with less than 10! Someone has been protecting these folks.

Charlie
 
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