New 22s heavier?

D

dbrown993

New member
Reading in another discussion, someone mentioned that their C-Dory 22 without trailer but fully loaded weighed in at well over 5000 pounds. They thought that their boat was heavier than others because it was built after 2007 and has a fiberglass interior. The sentiment was that the dealer specs on vessel weight are out of date. Any other thoughts or experience regarding the weight of newer 22s? I am contemplating a purchase and my tow vehicle is rated at 5000 pounds. I plan some long tows, so want to stay well within my vehicle's capabilities.

I have read other discussions regarding the towing weight of 22s, but all seem to be from 2007 or earlier.

Thank you.
 
I would imagine the molded fiberglass interior isn't any heavier than the wood (decragard) interior - that stuff is a plywood, and isn't lightweight.

I can't say about the weight of the 22, but the factory missed the weight on the 25 we owned by about a ton, on the trailer. I was told it would be "6,500 pounds all up on the trailer". With some cruising gear, it was 8,700 pounds.

The only accurate way to know the weight is to put it on a scale. I would not go from factory posted specs, especially those that are 8 years out of date.

It is my understanding that there is a layup schedule used to determine the appropriate build on these boats, leading me to believe there won't be a big difference in weight, unless there is a significant addition or reduction of materials.

Most folks here report their 22s in the 4,500 to 5,000 range for weight.
 
My 23 Venture is a 2008 with fiberglass interior and a 9.9 kicker sitting next to a Suzuki 150. My all in weight including trailer is about 5800#.
You'll be well under that with a 22, but I'm sure you'll get some very accurate replies here shortly!
Rob
 
Having seen both the Decragard (wood) and fiberglass interiors on the 22, I would say there is likely not much difference in weight, and if there is, I'd probably think the fiberglass interior would be a bit lighter. However I would not expect it to make much difference in the overall weight either way.

There are ways to make boats lighter through "techier" ways of building, but I don't think C-Dory uses any of those in particular (honeycomb panels, sophisticated layup methods, etc.). Does anyone know any different about the new boats?

Given all that, I think the biggest differences will come from outfitting, gear loaded aboard, and trailer choice.

Heavy engine(s), large battery bank, bigger fuel tanks (if you trailer with them full), more accessories.... those will add up. Tandem trailer/steel frame will weigh more. If you travel with a lot of gear, then it has to go into the boat or into the tow rig, and both will have some impact on your overall weight distribution/specs.

When I bought my 22, I had a vehicle that had just about 5,000# clear in the specs for tow rating (the actual tow rating was 7,500#, but that was a pipedream as the rear axle weight and gross combined rate both maxxed out when towing around 5,000# -- so that is something to consider too). So I was in a similar place as you. After reading real-world weights here on the forum, I figured I'd be okay - worst case might have to leave more stuff at home, trailer with tanks empty, etc.

Since I bought my boat, I have weighed it many times (mostly in Oregon and Washington, due to their free public scales). I'm at around 4,600# (including tongue weight) with a good bit of gear in the boat but empty tanks (I don't like towing with full tanks anyway). I have a galvanized steel tandem axle trailer, and a mid-weight main engine plus kicker. I've never weighed in at over 5,000#, even with a reasonable amount of gear and full fuel tanks (was a short hop).

I now have a rig that can tow a bit more, but still tow long distances with empty tanks (fuel especially, since it's right on the transom). I'm still well under 5,000#, even after some gear creep. I run around 350# tongue weight (you can go with less than 10% on a tandem). I have read of a few folks up in the 5,200# range for 22's, but if they had to, I bet they could trim back. I mean, I don't think it's anything inherent in the boat that makes it heavier (unless there is core damage or something).

Will be interesting to see if anyone with a "new" 22 chimes in with an actual, all-up trailering weight.

I agree with Jim that it's always best to trust other owners' (or your own) scale weights over builder specs (this goes for all boats, campers, etc. -- it seems there is a tendency for them to be "optimistic" in their estimates)
 
I have an 05 22 Cruiser, with twin Yamaha 40's and a Pacific tandem, galvanized trailer.

Boat and trailer, half fuel load and half water = 4900# on the DOT scale.

Empty trailer on same scale = 1160 #

That makes the boat at 3,740 #

Tongue weight is 450# +/- (Varies with fuel/water on board and camp gear in V-birth.)

That was loaded with basic food and clothing plus typical boat gear for a week.

Hope that helps.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
I have a 2007 CD-22 with a Mercury 115hp EFI 4-stroke. Tandem axle aluminum trailer. These are my actual weights:

C-Dory & Trailer (Full gas tanks, water tank 2/3 full, Cooler in cockpit approx. 80 lbs). Compliment of normal? equipment. (ie, anchor, etc.)

Total weight: 5065 lbs.
Tongue Weight 405 lbs
Axle Weight 4660 lbs

Note, these are on the trailer. I do not have an empty trailer weight, but I'm guessing the trailer is around 1500 lbs. So the boat itself would weight around 3500 lbs, which makes sense. Colby
 
I have a 2012 22 Cruiser and I just weighed it this spring after a trip to Florida and had some irregular tire wear. I was told by a trailer dealer it looks like the trailer may be overloaded which is causing the irregular tire wear. I was thinking based on documentation from the CDory manufactures that the basic boat, no engine, systems, fuel, water, etc weighed about 2000 lbs. After weighting the boat on the trailer and subtracting the weight of the trailer, engine, batteries, fuel, water, anchors, line, etc., etc. my 2012 22 Cruiser, boat only, weighs approximately 2850 lbs. I don't have any idea what older 22 Cruisers weighed so I can't comment on if the boats have gotten heavier. Now given that I now know the correct weight of the boat I can manage what I put into the boat to conform to my trailer carrying capacity. I did talk to my dealer that sold me the boat, motor, and trailer package and they were unaware that the basic boat weighed that much.

Dick Clagett
 
Dick,

Just curious, but what was your "all-up" weight before you subtracted everything? And do you have an aluminum or steel trailer, tandem or single?

Good on you for weighing and making adjustments accordingly. I hope your trailer didn't turn out such that you have to do a lot of inconvenient "lightening."
 
dbrown993 It would help if you told us what vehicle you have for towing. I am currently towing my 22 behind my Yukon XL. I have towed a different C Dory 22 behind a Honda Pilot--and there is a large difference between these two tow vehicles, both of which are "rated for" 5000 lb boat. (The Yukon XL is actually rated for more). The Honda Pilot was marginal, and only good for a light boat. I have towed 22's and 25's over 20,000 miles in the last few years, so I have a pretty good idea of what the needs are.

You can put your "stuff" in the boat, or in the truck, but there is a total rated capacity of that truck. (this includes weight of people). So you have to make some accommodation for this.

The "factory spec" for boat weight has always been wrong. This is not at all uncommon in the boating world.

You can tow a C Dory 22, with a vehicle rated to tow 5,000 lbs. BUT I like to have a tow vehicle which weighs more than the boat if towing long distances. On this trip, I have towed the C Dory 22 with a 42 foot RV, which is rated to tow 10,000 lbs, with a 350 hp, 1150 lbs torque diesel, vs the Yukon XL with a gas V8, 320-horsepower and 335 lb-ft of torque. With the RV you don't even know the boat is there. The Yukon---you certainly know it is there!
 
Thataway,

I don't mean to be critical, and plus I've read this from many people so I know a lot of people feel the same way, but... I don't totally understand wanting the tow vehicle to be heavier than the load. I mean, in a way I do, because mass is good. But on the other hand something like a 1-ton dually diesel truck is a super capable towing machine, and I would think it would often be towing a load heavier than it is.

I helped a friend with an E-350 dually truck (gas engine, not sure what truck weighed, maybe 6,000#? -- was just bare truck with lightweight fiberglass cap) tow a 10,000# travel trailer cross country and boy, talk about "not knowing it was back there" -- it was one of the nicest tows I've ever experienced. And yet the tow weighed close to double what the tow vehicle weighed. Maybe this only applies in larger rigs? I can certainly understand not wanting to tow a 5,000# trailer with a 1,500# car or something like that. But then it would not likely be rated to tow 5,000# anyway.

(As it is my tow rig weighs over twice as much as my boat/trailer, but that's just because it is an RV, so it's heavy.)

As I said, I don't mean to sound critical, it's just something I've always wondered about when I read it, and I happened to seize upon this moment to ask a question that's been in the back of my mind each time.
 
It's been a long while since mine has been on scale, but it has been before and it came in just short of 5,000 pounds and its a 94. It probably is more now.....If you are having weird tire issues, you probably have an overloaded trailer. I know for a fact mine is, but that is what the dealer provided with the boat a long long time ago.
 
Sunbeam":1isgyatu said:
but... I don't totally understand wanting the tow vehicle to be heavier than the load.
Click to expand...

I've read that many times as well, and with only one exception I can think of - it makes no sense. Anyone here with TomCat, and likely many with 25's don't have tow rigs that weigh more than their boat and trailer.

Here are current towing specs from Ford for 2015 F350's. A properly equipped F350 is rated to tow more than twice its weight with a conventional hitch. With a gooseneck - over three times its weight.

I've towed my Nordic 26 with my 1997 F250 Diesel, and it's a piece of cake. I've not weighed it, but I know it's well over 10K - probably between 11K and 12K. My truck empty is just under 6K.

The above being said, the one exception for me to the above applies to many here - surge brakes. Unlike electronic brakes, there are definitely situations with surge brakes where a heavier load can push the tow vehicle around. They just don't engage when lightly braking - and that can negatively effect handling in certain situations if the boat/trailer weigh significantly more than the tow rig. Long downhills, etc.
 
dbrown993":32m69ndd said:
Reading in another discussion, someone mentioned that their C-Dory 22 without trailer but fully loaded weighed in at well over 5000 pounds. They thought that their boat was heavier than others because it was built after 2007 and has a fiberglass interior. The sentiment was that the dealer specs on vessel weight are out of date. Any other thoughts or experience regarding the weight of newer 22s? I am contemplating a purchase and my tow vehicle is rated at 5000 pounds. I plan some long tows, so want to stay well within my vehicle's capabilities.

I have read other discussions regarding the towing weight of 22s, but all seem to be from 2007 or earlier.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

My comment was

My boat is a 2007 with the fiberglass interior. The number that the factory gives of 1925 lbs. is an old number that I don't think is right any more. Last time I weighed mine it was 5580 lbs. It was full of water and fuel and some gear with a 600 lbs. at the ball. I don't think their number is that abnormal. If I took all the gear out of the boat I might get it down to 5000 lbs.

My weight of 5580 lbs does include the trailer at 1300 lbs. I think the weight of 1925 lbs existed before they had the cockpit floor boards. If I started subtracting things off I might be able to get the boat only weight down 2500 lbs. there have been time when I have felt the boat pushing the Tahoe around and it had a tow rating of 8400 lbs. the new trucks tow rating is 9900 lbs and is very comfortable. A 5000 lbs. tow rating is going to be marginal at the upper limits. Maybe on flat ground or short pulls to the ramp. I don' t think I would want to do a mountain pass or a long pull with it.
 
Sunbeam,

My all up weight was 4400 lbs. My trailer is a Majic Tilt tandem and is aluminum and weighs 660 lbs. When I weighed the rig it had no water, 1/2 tanks fuel and most of the equipment we use for cruising was removed. To come up with the 2850 lbs I weighed the remaining equipment, batteries, anchors, line, etc., looked up the weight of the engine, and estimated the weight of steering, trim tabs, electronics, electrical equipment, etc. and subtracted that from the 4400 lbs. I wanted to give the best estimate for the basic boat so one could then take my number and add the weight of how they wanted to equip their boat.

My trailer has a max load capacity of 4000 lbs (4660 GVW). So most of the time when I am towing now I am close to max trailer capacity. In the past I think I have exceeded the the trailer capacity. I am glad I weighted the rig.

I tow with a 2012 Toyota Highlander and have towed from Maryland to Florida and back twice. The Highlander tows the rig very well and travels at highway speeds without issue. If fact if I don't look in the rear view mirror I may forget I am towing the rig. However, most of the East Cost from Maryland to Florida is fairly flat. I expect if I was towing in a mountainous state I would want a bigger tow vehicle.

Dick
 
Thanks for the perspective, DaNag. I can imagine that surge brakes would not be desirable for heavier loads. I have them on my 22's trailer and while I'm fine with them on that, I do have to take care when starting into the downside of a pass -- and I don't think I'd want them on much more of a trailer load (and even on the 22 I can see where EOH would be a pleasant upgrade).

Dick,

Appreciate the additional info. I can see why you feel your trailer is a tad light at 4660# GVW. (I can also see how you have made it work for your particular towing use case.) I also have a Magic Tilt tandem, but it's galvanized steel and has a GVW of 5,200#. It has 13" wheels. They sold another model with the same frame and etc. as mine, but with 14" wheels, and it's rated higher, so I believe it's the tires that were the limiting factor in my trailer's rating (especially with the original/old type tires). I have C-rated trailer radials now and they are relatively close to their max rating although not over. I have now found a D-rated 13" radial trailer tire and I'll be switching to that next time I buy tires for a little more margin.
 
My trailer is an Easy Loader Galvanized with a GVW of 6000 lbs. 14" load range C tires combined weight of 7040 lbs.
 
As Dick, I'm also towing with a Toyota Highlander, 2010 in my case. While it's tow rating is 5000 lbs, which I'm right up against, it has done a better than great job. (And I run straight electric brakes on the trailer.) Last year I towed the CD22 over 10,000 foot passes at 8% grade near Yellowstone. This summer we just came back from Lake Powell, with towing over the Rockies on I70. I did have some issues with the Transmission oil overheating last month on that trip, but only because of a damn semi that kept pulling out to pass other semis, right when I was about to go around him. After 3 times of that nonsense, being slowed to 40, then pushing to get my speed back up to 55, was just a little too much for the transmission oil cooler. Pulling over and sitting for a few minutes cooled it right down. (Too bad for the clown in the semi, the last time he pulled that crap, when I finally got around him is when my warning light came on, and of course I had to slow down till I could safely pull over. Lots of cars in the left lane passing by then, so I think it took him a while to get back over to the fast lane to piss others off. I've also driven semi in earlier years, so I know how that goes.....A little common courtesy goes both ways....) Speaking of semis and trailer weights, most tractors weigh in about 18,000 lbs, while the trailer can come in at close to 60,000 lbs. Of course they are set up for that kind of arrangement, but with the proper specs and maintenance, passenger vehicles are just as capable. Colby
 
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