NADA guidelines crap

R

rbfconstruction

New member
Hi, I have a 2006 C dory 19 Angler for Sale. I have it selling for 26,500 with a buyer. The bank will only loan on "nada" and so since the buyer only has 3000 down, cannot qualify for a boat loan because fn "nada" apparently has my boat at $15,600. Has anyone been able to tell the bank they are full of sh#t ? aaaaand they listened???? Any suggestions would be helpful. Any one out there with a boat like mine for that price - CALL ME, I will buy it.

PS- IT is not a credit problem. They have good credit.

Richard
 
That's always been the case with NADA and KBB. Plenty of posts about it here, and it's not limited to C-Dory. They list my Nordic in the 20's, and it's worth almost 4x that.

I don't recall the details, but I think either NADA or KBB might include only the hull in their valuations. If the outboard, electronics, trailer and anything else of value can be added in, that might bump their value - but I doubt it will be anywhere near close to reality.

Most buyers of C-Dorys don't seem to get boat loans unless new for the very reason you've discovered. They either pay cash, or use equity in their homes when borrowing is necessary. What might be possible, is finding a marine-specific lender that bases valuation on a survey. That adds several hundred dollars to the purchase process, but is typically closer to real market value. Peoples Bank up in WA does this, not sure what lenders might do the same down by you.

Good luck.
 
If you get a lender that regularly deals with boats, they should also check the BUC book value.

However, unlike NADA or KBB, you cannot use the BUC value system for free online (like for cars) to find its value for your boat. Lenders who lend for boats should have access though.

When I boat my CD22 the NADA value was about a third of the price the guy was asking for. My credit union checked the BUC book and had no problem with a loan for the price the boat was selling for.

http://www.buc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=books
 
Not all marine lenders are BUC friendly. I am a broker and provide soldboats.com data [sales history] , and/or a survey , but sometimes you just cant get it done . Credit unions will not loan at all without NADA in many cases.
NADA is fine for "commodity boats" Boston Whalers , Sea Rays , Gradys, etc...
Its a depreciation table plain and simple that does not use sales history in its values .
Marc
 
I have experience being rejected for a c-dory loan. There I was intending to buy our first c-dory back in 2011, but did not have all cash to make it happen. I did had near perfect credit however.

The credit unions I inquired and was a member of would not do a boat loan for anything more than a couple years old. When I found a bank that would, they used NADA prices which did not help us out. I could have gone broke and bought a new c-dory, but that wasn't financially wise for us at that time when we were in the middle of a home renovation.

We ended up taking out a no collateral personal loan for the boat, and the interest was not good, it was 6% if I remember correctly. We made the deal happen however, and the following year paid off the loan in cash from the home we'd remodeled and flipped.

Was it the wisest way to get our c-dory, Im not sure but I was in love and wasn't thinking clearly.

:lol:
 
Some sellers/buyers have taken the information from the sales (both advertised prices in the "for sale by owner" section, plus the "market place" section) to the Lender, as well as a marine surveyors appraisal of the boat.

Another resource is loans from "Lightstream", "Essex Credit" and "Lending Tree". The first two give lots of boat loans and often are more aware of real boat prices. The interest rates may be higher than a credit union. The other factor is the down payment. Higher down, easier to get the loan.
 
BTW Bob , Lightstream is Suntrust's direct lending product and Essex is Bank of the West's direct lending division.
I have a loan broker that we use when its a challenging customer/deal . They have many sources of money[lenders] to work with. Ill give Joey Gottfried a shout out at Newcoast Financial. If he cant get it done , usually no one can............. I've worked with him for 20 years . Great guy.
We lend through Bank Of The West , but all the really challenging ones go to Joey.
Marc
 
Going around with State Farm on an insurance policy. The said they couldn't insure it for Agreed Value, only KBB.

Too bad, Progressive doesn't have that problem.

Breaking news. State Farm said OK when I told them I was going elsewhere.
 
Meade's":3t23oj24 said:
Going around with State Farm on an insurance policy. The said they couldn't insure it for Agreed Value, only KBB.

Too bad, Progressive doesn't have that problem.

Breaking news. State Farm said OK when I told them I was going elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I ran into the same issue with Farmers, but worked with my agent, had a good survey, and took him printed notes of several sales of similar to mine. Then found he already had a same year, same color, same value C-Dory insured through his office. BINGO, mine got insured.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Your boats not selling because it's to expensive. Try lowering the price. It's just like anything, home, car, art, etc. There are people interested in your boat but not for that price. I get a laugh out of this c-dory website, so many people think there boats are worth so much. I will give that they are cool, but the boat is worth what someone is willing to pay.
 
jemmka6@gmail.com":17d55hrt said:
Your boats not selling because it's to expensive. Try lowering the price. It's just like anything, home, car, art, etc. There are people interested in your boat but not for that price. I get a laugh out of this c-dory website, so many people think there boats are worth so much. I will give that they are cool, but the boat is worth what someone is willing to pay.
Click to expand...

His boat is selling. Buyer just needs a loan. No place here for negative comments in my book.
 
Thank you Jimmie. "Cool" is worth more. The asking price is set on a lot of factors, and yes cool is one of them. Another one is that it is a pilot house. Try buying a Parker or Defiance. I know it will only will sell for what someone is willing to pay. Perhaps I should have named it "ROLEX".
Richard
btw, Currently it is back on the market as the buyer could not get the proper loan.
The best part, I am going to be sad when it does.
 
jemmka6@gmail.com":3tlrxmk4 said:
Your boats not selling because it's to expensive. Try lowering the price. It's just like anything, home, car, art, etc. There are people interested in your boat but not for that price. I get a laugh out of this c-dory website, so many people think there boats are worth so much. I will give that they are cool, but the boat is worth what someone is willing to pay.
Click to expand...

Jemmka, Sure it would sell if he lowered the price, but why do that when the boat is worth what he is asking. It is a quality boat, and there are dicerning buyers out there who know the truth to the old saying, "You get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get." Sometimes you can get in under the wire, but when a C-Dory is priced too low, there has to be a reason. Sometimes it is that the seller truely does not know the value of his vessel, OR, it might be that it is a hurridly needed sale, or sometimes there are some sort of issues, ie deferred maintenance, or very high engine hours, or results of poor storage practices, but most folk here know how to keep their boats in good shape, protecting the resale value, AND the integrity of the C-Dory brand.

So, if you are looking for a C-Dory, good luck. If you find a "steal", maybe you get lucky OR ...... And down the road you may begin to appreciate the value of the PNW niche boat that has a following and a high resale value.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Well lets see, the boat was originally on craigslist for 25G. then latter on consignment for 27.5. Now its for sale for 26.5. No offense to the guy selling this boat, he's trying to get the most out of it. I get it, but people are watching.
Once the dumb money gone, guess whos left? There is a gorgeous 19ft c-dory for sale in Florida on this web site. He is asking 22.5 and to this day has not sold it. This boat has all the custom touches. Everything in life has a selling price and this one is a wee bit much. Lower the price!!!
 
No dog in this fight. A boat is what a willing seller and a willing buy think it is worth. I missed a nice 22 for 20 K, was it "worth" more? Yes, was I a day late? Yes.

But we are in FL and will be inspecting Tinker Toy tomorrow. The boat is well equipped. Has a camper back, trim tabs, auto pilot, custom teak modifications, brand new tires on an aluminum trailer and the exterior looks in very good condition. The owners wife described him as meticulous. The pictures appear to reflect his care of the boat.

C-Dorys are a niche boat, with a loyal following and have tended to hold their value over time as the price of newer models continue to climb. I'm glad that there are used ones on the market.

It appears the OP had a buyer at whatever price but the problem was getting financing. My insurance agent wasn't going to sell enough coverage till I informed him that Progressive, who insures a lot of watercraft, had no problem with the amount of coverage I wanted. They ended up quoting an agreed value policy that was satisfactory and did it at a rate less than Progressive for the same coverage.

Having owned many boats and having experienced the loss of two of them, one on the Interstate and one by fire, I can tell you that State Farm treated me fairly on both and settled quickly with no BS.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I find nothing wrong with an seller asking whatever they want. Every forum has a culture. C-Brats culture seems to be one of respect and comradery, which is the spirit of friendship and community in a group. Bashing someone's choice of a selling price is not.

From the home page: No Rules - Just be nice!
 
Sorry that you got caught in this mess.
FYI, NMI the builders of Cdory's presently. Were the original owners of SeaSport boats. SeaSport boats are NOT found in NADA or KBB. The owners have never participated with those entities, on purpose to have there boats retain higher resale values. SeaSport is found in BUC, but like you encountered the value figure is a rediculous number. I just sold my SeaSport for more than three times ( 350 % ) of what the BUC figure was. And I had 6 people calling me on a wait list if the first person was unable to follow through.
The fact Cdory is listed in NADA and KBB is not good for the brand.
 
Seems that everyone has "a voice" on the internet. But, having someone who doesn't own one of these boats state that the prices should be lower sounds like a less than informed "voice."

Price is certainly one factor in selling a boat. Add in condition, equipment, engine (hours), and location. There is a great history here in this forum in selling/asking prices for C-Dorys; certainly a more accurate indicator than the ridiculously low NADA or BUC.

If a boat is located close to you, it may have more value than a boat across the country that will take time and $$ to retrieve. I once had a buyer for a boat I was selling (not a C-Dory) ask me to lower the price because he had to come to Texas from Florida to see the boat. "So, if you pay for it in advance, and I bring the boat to you, are you willing to pay more than my asking price for it?" He came to Texas and bought the boat.

Certainly, a buyer should try to get the best price, but it comes down to buyer and seller agreeing on a price - not some internet "voice" stating an uninformed opinion. That is the situation in this case: an uninformed lender. If a buyer needs financing, it is better to arrange that before going to look/negotiate on a boat.
 
JamesTXSD":1p9ae2qk said:
....
There is a great history here in this forum in selling/asking prices for C-Dorys; certainly a more accurate indicator than the ridiculously low NADA or BUC. ...
Click to expand...

However, there can be a significant difference between asking price and selling price. Selling price is usually not reported so the true value of these boats is harder to determine.
 
No offense. LISTEN LINDA... The boat was at my house in my drive, I need room for my new boat, offered it up hoping it went right away. It did not so went to the sellers yard. The boat in Florida is a very nice boat. I would buy it if I was in Florida. My boat is from Florida as it was a Coastguard auxiliary vessel . Since my purchase, I have rigged the boat for fishing and gone completely through the engine. I do not have to sell her. I am not destitute. I might lower the price, when I dam well feel like it. If people are watching... Now what? Every boat I have purchased has been for sale. The ones I have "watched" sold. Watch mine!!!!!
Please list any/all things you ever sell. I will advise you.

Richard
 
This is a very timely matter for me as I have a buyer for our boat who is going to finance it. we have agreed on a price that is $2,000. dollars less than the boat was sold for two years ago, this same time of year.

However since then these items have been added to the boat:

Lifetime bottom paint $7,000.00

Big Bumpers 400.00

400 hour service and
install of F.I.Tahatsu 9.9
with power tilt trim,
electric start and complete
controls at the helm
all done at HQ harbor Marine
(Wonderful folks there)
$6,000.00+
new chart-plotter
sonar unit 400.00-

total $13,800.
price reduction 2,000.

Boat cost effectiveness $15,800. !!!

I can certainly see why a lender would be conservative on collateral that can float away, sink, burn or be stolen, and in fact it seems reasonable that they should be conservative in their lending practices. The fact that Credit unions will lend less is a good thing for the depositors of the credit union. Lenders more tied into our crony financial situation of making money out of thin air (i.e. pals of the fed) are literally at no risk and can lend more.

Time of year is of course a great factor in selling. I normally would not offer up a boat until April or May depending on weather.

The variation on boats of the same year is so great it is really impossible to accurately value a boat you have not seen, in my opinion.

The buyer determines the market value as well as the seller. This time of year out west I would not expect as much action.

I do not have this boat actively for sale. this situation arose due to a C-brat member putting a post on that they were looking for a C-dory 22.

I have noticed that the C-dory's that are nice boats and priced fairly sell very fast. Many of the sales are probably never even posted as lots of people are after them

Like housing values, used boat values are tied to lending practices and interest rates. We are seeing some ez interest times.

East coast used boats seem to be worth less than west coast and of course you have to factor in the cost of transportation.

I sure do enjoy the comments on this site and I read them almost daily but seldom comment.

I will share my observations about this when we are done.

be wellthy, johnd
 
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