my oil looks like a milkshake :(

[TyBoo]

Only takes once to overheat, warp & or crack something.
If it's apart should be easy enough to tell & good time to inspect cil. walls etc.
:wink: :thup

I understand that overheat can crack things or distort a head enough to bypass the gasket. I guess I was wondering how the shop reached the point of blaming repetitive overheat without finding something definitive, which he would surely report if it had been found.

I lost a water pump impeller that caused an overheat alarm and shutdown on my old Honda 130. I got to Friday Harbor on the kicker but used the main again for docking based on Les Lampman telling me it would be just fine to do. He said the alarm is triggered at a pretty low temp and that shutdown occurs before enough heat is built up to do real damage. That was with 1999 technology. I am sure the technology of today can protect a motor just as well.

Did the mechanic tear down the topside of the motor and inspect the head and gasket to make his diagnosis? If not, then repetitive overheat is a casual guess at best. If he did find the path taken by the water to the crankcase then he would have reported it also, I imagine. Short of removing the head and inspecting, a leak down test is probably the best way to find a bad gasket or cracked head. Do you know if he did that?

Again, I am running on limited experience here and still willing to learn.

Ironically, the Honda 130 that had the overheat alarm also developed a water leak and filled the crankcase. But that was 15 years after the fact! By then it had enough hours that it was better to replace than repair so I never found out exactly what caused it.

 

[colbysmith]

I'm agreeing with Tyboo Mike. I'm assuming the mechanic already pulled the head to make that diagnoses? I had a car one time that warped it's head, but that was after a freeze plug blew and I drove it several miles before realizing it. (Small 4 cylinder engine in a Corolla that had recently been rebuilt...) I've overheated my Merc 115 Outboard a few times when weeds have plugged the intakes, but always shut it down as soon as the overheat warning sounded. Mind you, not more than a few times, but yeah, even in those few times I was concerned more about frying the impellar. (Which didn't look that much worse for the wear when I changed it out earlier this fall.) Anyway, just my backyard mechanic mind says with the difference in compression and water in the oil, the blown head gasket still makes more sense.

 

[digger]

Have them sho you and point out how they come to their conclusion

 

[thataway]

Just another view--My close friend bought a used 25 with a Honda 150 (I believe about 700 hours) on it. The first time he took it out, it had an overheat alarm, went into limp home mode. They were towed in, and when the local Honda dealer started tearing the engine down, they found extensive corrosion causing obstruction in the water passages.

I would sure want to see exactly what the mechanic found. If it is shot (or not)--you are not going to damage it any more by taking a wrench to it, and completing the teardown.

 

[cmetzenberg]

Hi all.
875 bucks latter i am 100% sure the engine is in really bad shape lol. Scorn cylinders, rust on lots of stuff and the #4 piston has chips missing from the edges. It would take lots of machining to get this back running. I had another mechanic look at it as the heads were off, he said it's fubar too. Perhaps it's the kelp out here; filters can clog up a lot when you're looking for seabass...i don't know what else it could have been. I take damn good care of my engines so i'm guessing the kelp got them.

I wish i was dripping in money like it was 2014 and i was working back in Africa. I have the cash in the bank to repower the entire boat, but i have the financial sense not to do so. I like putting my money towards things that appreciate. That being said I would like to find the most cost effective solution that gets me back up and running; used engine, shortblock, machine and rebuild, a new 'blem'.

1. used engine.
at a glance on ebay i'm seeing used bf 150s from 4500 to 6500. Lots look pretty rough but i can put my current fairings on them. The hard part here is finding one that is mechanically sound and doing due diligence from a far.

2. longblock/crate engine. I don't know much about this option but i like the idea of replacing the powerhead as the rest of the engine is fine. I need to do research and analyse costs. I'm mechanically savy, wonder if i could do this myself?

3. machine and rebuild. I'm pretty sure this option is out due to the labor rates putting the preliminary quotes at or above the cost of used motors ~7k

4. A brand new blem. I could pick up a new blem tomorrow for 11700 sticker price. That's before I pull the walk in with cash trick at around 10k and say take it or leave it. This option would come with a warranty which is great but the cost puts me off; it's not the financially savvy Conrad thing to do...doesn't mean it isn't the smartest thing to do.

Any advise or resources would be appreciated guys.
Thanks,
-Conrad and his broke ass boat.

 

[westward]

"Brand new blem" for 10K would be my personal choice, for speed of repair and you end up with a brand new engine for not that much more than the used/rebuilt route. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you choose. Would really be curious to know what conditions caused your motor to fail as I run a variant of it myself (BF 135).

 

[localboy]

...the #4 piston has chips missing from the edges...

That explains the low compression. Probably gouged the cylinder walls to hell and back and damaged the head. I mean, where would the missing chips go and what caused that? Sucks though.

Personally, I'd be leery of buying a "used" outboard, especially sight unseen. The brand new option, with warranty, seems to best for long term peace of mind. But that comes at a price of course. How long do you plan on keeping the current boat? I can't see all the labor, parts, machining etc of a rebuild being cost effective either. Getting a rebuilt long block? Just how mechanical are you? For me that would be a no go...but your skills, tools, location/shop and confidence may be better than mine. That's some serious mechanical labor and if you run into a problem...

Good luck in whatever you decide. Looks like that GW "gotcha" anyway...but at least you're still here...

 

[hardee]

Conrad, I'm not a mechanic so first off, I would find one that I trust, recommended by someone I trusted I guess and then go with his recommendation. For me, the options you are looking at, I would be looking and liking the option for a "scratch and dent" new with a warranty. Seems like that would be a hard to be at offer.

Best in whatever you decide.

I was just looking over the photos from the Delta trip last spring, and remembering the fun, and sharing supper with you and family at the duck club. Hope for a great Thanksgiving for you all.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[thataway]

No boat is an "investment"--except in pleasure. You may or may not break even when you eventually sell the boat.

For 10 K I would go with the "blem". As the boat is now--it is worth at least 10K less than it would be with both running engines..

I agree, it sure seems unusual that you were not getting alarms on the overheat. The several times I had debris or weed of any sort, there was an alarm and I was able to shut down, clean the foot, or back down (first thing to do).

Yes, you should be able to put a new/rebuilt block on the engine--but would it affect the warrantee? The problem with rebuilt is what condition was the block--it is not a new one--a core was taken in--and if you don't have a rebuildable core the price will be more. If you with a re-build, be sure and ask about reliability. I have found The Hull Truth probably has the best experience in numbers with outboards. (often 1000 boaters on line at one time). There are some rebuilders to avoid definitely.

 

[cmetzenberg]

No boat is an "investment"--except in pleasure. You may or may not break even when you eventually sell the boat.

For 10 K I would go with the "blem". As the boat is now--it is worth at least 10K less than it would be with both running engines..

I agree, it sure seems unusual that you were not getting alarms on the overheat. The several times I had debris or weed of any sort, there was an alarm and I was able to shut down, clean the foot, or back down (first thing to do).

Yes, you should be able to put a new/rebuilt block on the engine--but would it affect the warrantee? The problem with rebuilt is what condition was the block--it is not a new one--a core was taken in--and if you don't have a rebuildable core the price will be more. If you with a re-build, be sure and ask about reliability. I have found The Hull Truth probably has the best experience in numbers with outboards. (often 1000 boaters on line at one time). There are some rebuilders to avoid definitely.

My engines are way past warranty being 07s. I wouldn't rebuild my block. I'd be looking to purchase, what i believe is refered to as, a long block.

 

[Micahbigsur@msn.com]

Someone's rebuilt core long block or brand new Honda factory long block, there is a big difference.

 

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

Just wondering if syncing would be any problem with a new engine in tandem with a 12 year - 700hr. one?

 

[gulfcoast john]

Another vote for cash for the blem with warranty. When you sell, you will recoup much more of your cost than you would with your other options. Your buyer will be much more confident. You’ll get back out there much sooner and you’ll be more confident in your new engine. Tough break, but at least you and your buds weren’t et by a shark.

Make sure your rigger plugs the new engine N2k output plug into your existing N2k network and you’ll be able to monitor a constant digital readout of your engine temp (and any number of other engine parameters you choose) on your MFD display. Dealers would of course rather sell you two new $500 Honda gauges and pretend to know nothing….NOTHING! about this. Once the rigging tube is crammed full of cables and lines etc it’s hard to snake a N2K adapter through all that, but I did it, and you could do it on the other engine. Of the 4 tiny shielded wires, only the blue and white ones carry the data so that’s all you have to cut and snake through Then reconnect with 3M dot splices to the network plug inside the transom.

My engines always run within 2 degrees of each other at all speeds. I’m surprised the thermostats are that sensitive. If one goes 5 degrees higher than the other or over 134 degrees I know something is wrong. We had an overheat alarm at idle at only 126 degrees in a Canada canal….I was suspecting a faulty sensor, but sure enough some gooey muck was partially obstructing the intake. Cleared the muck and cleared the fault. That makes me suspect that the alarm programming parameters take RPM into account (or GPS speed?). In the FL Keys there are mats of sea grass everywhere, and by watching the digital temp readouts I have an earlier warning than the alarm and manage not to be surprised by it when it happens. It also helps immensely when running the engine on the flush muffs to know the exact engine temp and rate of increase.

I agree with all who note that the overheat alarms seem to be very conservative across brands. Even with a bad sensor and a bad captain (not you, Conrad), the ECM is a backup that’s going to put the engine in ‘limp home’ mode and it should not be permanently damaged.

Since it’s your money and not mine, I’d suggest looking into the other powerhead to make sure the same mysterious evil forces are not cavorting around within it as well. You could have new twins. They will still be much cheaper than, say, twin baby girls. Or quadruplets.

Here's (hopefully) the Eff off St Johns at 1.8 ft and getting shallow fast with both engines at 129 degrees. Conrad, post a higher-risk pic than this. (last pic, on page 18 of album).


Best of luck!
John

 

[cmetzenberg]

Another vote for cash for the blem with warranty. When you sell, you will recoup much more of your cost than you would with your other options. Your buyer will be much more confident. You’ll get back out there much sooner and you’ll be more confident in your new engine. Tough break, but at least you and your buds weren’t et by a shark.

Make sure your rigger plugs the new engine N2k output plug into your existing N2k network and you’ll be able to monitor a constant digital readout of your engine temp (and any number of other engine parameters you choose) on your MFD display. Dealers would of course rather sell you two new $500 Honda gauges and pretend to know nothing….NOTHING! about this. Once the rigging tube is crammed full of cables and lines etc it’s hard to snake a N2K adapter through all that, but I did it, and you could do it on the other engine. Of the 4 tiny shielded wires, only the blue and white ones carry the data so that’s all you have to cut and snake through Then reconnect with 3M dot splices to the network plug inside the transom.

My engines always run within 2 degrees of each other at all speeds. I’m surprised the thermostats are that sensitive. If one goes 5 degrees higher than the other or over 134 degrees I know something is wrong. We had an overheat alarm at idle at only 126 degrees in a Canada canal….I was suspecting a faulty sensor, but sure enough some gooey muck was partially obstructing the intake. Cleared the muck and cleared the fault. That makes me suspect that the alarm programming parameters take RPM into account (or GPS speed?). In the FL Keys there are mats of sea grass everywhere, and by watching the digital temp readouts I have an earlier warning than the alarm and manage not to be surprised by it when it happens. It also helps immensely when running the engine on the flush muffs to know the exact engine temp and rate of increase.

I agree with all who note that the overheat alarms seem to be very conservative across brands. Even with a bad sensor and a bad captain (not you, Conrad), the ECM is a backup that’s going to put the engine in ‘limp home’ mode and it should not be permanently damaged.

Since it’s your money and not mine, I’d suggest looking into the other powerhead to make sure the same mysterious evil forces are not cavorting around within it as well. You could have new twins. They will still be much cheaper than, say, twin baby girls. Or quadruplets.

Here's (hopefully) the Eff off St Johns at 1.8 ft and getting shallow fast with both engines at 129 degrees. Conrad, post a higher-risk pic than this. (last pic, on page 18 of album).


Best of luck!
John

John,
I was planning on plugging the engine in to the existing gauges. My network is NMEA 0183; still possible to buy and mfd and view this data?

 

[thataway]

My engines are way past warranty being 07s. I wouldn't rebuild my block. I'd be looking to purchase, what i believe is refered to as, a long block.

I was referring to if you installed the "new" power heads, instead of a certified or "qualified" mechanici--the the warrantee on the new power head might not be honored--have to have that scoped out.

 

[gulfcoast john]

Conrad,
Regrets, NMEA 0183 is 1983 technology according to this 2013 article…

https://www.meridianyachtowners.com/thr ... tion.6110/

All I remember of NMEA 0183 is infinite frustration with 30 (or was it 60?) or so multi-colored hair-size wires. Your question is whether that 1983 system carries the engine digital temp data output of a 2007 or 2019 Honda BF150.

I don’t know.

My impression is that all the major outboards had N2k data output by mid 2006, depending on serial number (Mercury had their non-compatible proprietary equivalent on my 2004 Regal I/O engine).

The simple 5-pin N2k backbone ($67 retail!) is plug ‘n play simple and carries MUCH more data. From your picture album I assume you have a nice Furuno multifunction display (or any modern chartplotter) that would display all N2k data once you choose it. 0183, doubt it but upgrade for $67 and you can do it in an afternoon.

PM me and I’ll send a leftover N2K backbone to you free.

Sorry for your troubles and hope you get through them with the grit, tolerance and spine you have demonstrated on this site.

I wish I had the knowledge to give you a definitive answer to your very reasonable question. I salute you here,

Good Luck!

John

 

[Micahbigsur@msn.com]

All the little 0183 wires are a pain to wire up, especially to more than one device, good riddance. Once you start with a network you will find them very easy and flexable.

 

[ssobol]

,, My impression is that all the major outboards had N2k data output by mid 2006, depending on serial number ...

Except for a lot of Honda models. The midsize Honda motors only got N2K in the latest iteration (e.g. BF100). The BF100 came out in 2016.

My '08 BF90D does not have it.

 

[cmetzenberg]

So i've been talking with a dealer in Fresno CA who has a 2006 BF 150. It has under 200hrs and claims to have never been run in saltwater. I asked the guy to send me the alarm history but says that the he already cleared it and that all it had was a couple of high temp alerts. This dealer has terrible reviews on yelp and google. What do you all think? It sketches me out that he cleared the alarms.

 

[thataway]

Bad reviews--don't do business. Cleared the alarms--high temp? Why, what temp, and duration. Why was the motor traded in with only the low hours?

If you can find a motor which was traded in, because it was not enough HP for the boat--and it is documented that the owner went from 150 to 200+--that would probably be the best scenario...