Moves you don't want to make in your C-Dory

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After a year and a half of various and sundry experiences in the J.C.Lately (CD-22) we're beginning to feel somewhat comfortable with our recently acquired operating skills. At the same time, we're both well aware that we're still just beginners in this business of very small power boats in, potentially, very big waters.

So the question is - what are the moves which have the greatest likelihood of bringing us to grief?
That is to say, what sea conditions in combination with what mis-applications of the controls are most likely to swamp or upset us?

Thanks,

Paul Priest
Sequim
 
This may sound obvious but the first suggestion is to always put to sea with very recent weather data. NOAA updates the marine forecast about every 4-5 hours here in MA. I use this resource for weather:

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/zone/usamz.htm

Choose your area to drill down to your specific cruising area.


You would want to avoid a situation where waves are hitting your vessel abeam. That is, perpendicular to your direction of travel. That can really toss the boat and it's occupants. You ideally want to take a wave on the bow at a 45 degree angle.

When cruising in following seas it's important to keep an eye on the waves behind you. You would need to get a feel for waves that risk coming over your transom. In some cases you may need to hit the throttle to stay ahead of a wave. The bottom contour, depth, and other factors affect wave shape. I have once been in decent seas such that two waves combined for a period of time and I had to hit the gas to stay ahead of it. After a short period of time the wave subsided such that it could overtake us without risk of coming over the back.

So much is touch and feel....just carefully set limits to the seas in which you cruise to carefully build this experience.
 
We docked next to you at the Friday Harbor C-Brats get together. We are also fairly new to the CD22, and I think you will get some interesting responses which we are all looking forward to. The only time we were spooked in the 22 was last spring trying to come out of the Sacramento Delta about where the mothball fleet is anchored. Heavy head wind with big straigth on waves. I could have easily turned around many times but we had a destination in mind. So when we figured out it was getting worse, no fun and on the edge of danger- you guessed it- how do you time your turn to miss the big stuff and are you going to surf back and at what speed. The main thing I learned ( I think) was to not use trim tabs travelling downwind in heavy conditions as the boat will want to bow steer itself. Also we had no logical reason to keep heading for our destination when it started getting rough, and the fact that there were no other boats out there should have been clue enough. In retrospect, I think the boat handled it fine but we didn't. Hope to see you again at a C-Brats event Roger Juntunen, In Cahoots, Idaho
 
How about don't keep posting about how nice it is in Texas with all the FD dolphins when we're freezing our butts off? That's a bad CD move :wink: :wink: :twisted: Oh, but that's for a different thread (sorry Jim).

I've had a few occasions where I turned too hard across a wake or wave and almost put water in the cockpit. The back end can slip out of a high wave and with twins, if one prop comes out of the water while the wave is on the other side, that corner can dig in and I've been close to being in trouble once or twice. As similar thing can happen in following seas if you get at too much of an angle to the swell. Typically, the CD slips out of it but things inside the cabin are tossed around a bit.
 
OK, Roger... the cold front has moved in and it's all the way down to 62º. :xtongue

As far as making moves in the boat that would get one into trouble... this boat can take a lot more than I'd care to. Steep close waves that would be breaking would be a concern for me. Likely that that condition would be close to shore in shallow circumstances, so there's that to be concerned about, too. Prudence would have you staying out of those conditions, but the wrong move would be to turn slowly, allowing a broach or being swamped.
 
One of the great things about the CD 22 is that it is light. It also can be a pain. In busy bays, with large charter and sight seeing boats like one sees in Seward, there are lots of really big waves that can catch you off guard. I particularly hate it early in the am when chasing halibut when all the charters race out. There are so many boats that it is nearly impossible to turn at an angle into the wake. The CD 22 does not like being hit on the side by a steep 3-5 foot charter boat wake. I have surfed a few of them. It is not fun and seriously feels like the boat is going to tip over when on plane. After some uncomfortable experiences, I either go out before or after the "big" boys.
 
I agree with Jim in that my C-Dory will take a lot more sea than I care to be in. Last September I was in route to the NC gathering coming up the ICW. I made a slow 5 day trip of it and the weather was great until what was suppose to be my last day of cruising before arriving in Oriental. Heading east in Bogue Sound the wind started to blow around 30 out of the north but I was somewhat protected until I reached Morehead City where the ICW turns to the north. At that point I was headed directly in to the wind without any protection. I made plans to stay at a Marina in Morehead just past the bridge that seperates Morehead and Beaufort. I only had about a mile to go so I keep going. The ICW narrows way down at the bridge forming sort of a funnel under the bridge. I knew it was going to be a little ruff but really wasn't ready for what I encountered. North of the bridge theres a huge open bay about 5 miles long and a couple miles wide narrowing down to maybe 1/4 mile wide under the bridge. Just as I got under the bridge the waves were bouncing off the bridge fenders and peaking to maybe 6' and I'd guess only 2 seconds apart and breaking. I punched through them with water coming over my bow. Once past the bridge I was okay but the ordeal really got my blood flowing. I spent two days at the marina waiting out the storm. There are a lot of bridges along the ICW that the channel narrows down at and it's always a good idea to be well prepared for the turbulance under them.
 
I agree with Marvin, and one of most "white knuckle" moments was at the Moorhead City Inlet, which I ran out of to see if would be safe for some following sailboats. I knew in advance that the wind and tide were wrong, but gave it a shot anyway. Very high (6-9 foot) waves, stacked about 2 boat lengths apart. Decided to turn back after I noticed water dripping off the overhead mounted radar - with only the side windows open. But, had to continue out for another few minutes to allow incoming traffic to clear. You get one chance at the turn, and then play surfer boy all the way in. I don't mind surfing, particularly after getting pounded head-on, but the turning definitely gets your attention, and these boats can do a tight turn like nobody's business.

My other white knuckle experiences have both involved cutting large wakes in order to pass, with an angle of cut too shallow, and sliding sideways down the wake. Definitely gives me a very bad feeling, all the way to the bottom. You swear the boat will flip, but it somehow manages to stay upright.

As an aside to Marvin's experience, take a look at the charts, and you'll see why there was a problem at the bridge. The bridge is over a mile from the inlet. However, a very large part of the water passing the inlet also passes under the bridge. What you have, in effect, are two inlets, and they are both subject to winds and tides. We can be motoring along the ICW, thinking that we're avoiding the inlets, when, in fact, we're passing through areas that are their functional equivalents.

We've left out docking, but that's a different "confessional" subject.
 
What I never liked in my 22 was running with the waves, surfing down the front and nearly broaching. I could run about 12 knots, still on plane and then down the face got up to 18+ at times. Not a good feeling.

In the TC, I've yet to find an uncomfortable situation, although I'm sure I will sometime in the future....

Charlie
 
HI Paul a short list of boating and grief

1 Getting caught drinking and boating.
2 your experience can increase these limits but
swell greater than 6' and duration less than 10 seconds it gets worse and
worse as swell increases and duration decreases after my suggested limits.
3 wind over 20 in open water. Wind is what closes duration so wind and swell are
related.
4 launching in a surf zone. Or for the reason, getting broadsided by a breaking
or broken swell.
5 Making sure your boat and trailer are connected at the ramp either before or after launching.
6 Wanting to get underway for the big one only to have the enforcer telling you
need a new fire extinguisher or flare or something fixed in your boat.
7 Do your maintenance at home and make sure it is ready before you launch it.
8 Trying to tow a vessel twice the size of yours.

Just a short list that is not necessarily from experience. A lot more can be added.

The most important thing to use is your good common sense.
 
We love our CD for cruising canals. However, in the locks, we learned that the light front end can create problems when thousands of gallons of water come rushing at the boat all at once. The solution (apart from sending someone forward) is to run a line from the front as well as the stern behind the line on the wall, so one can control movement at the front. Then, one person can handle both lines midships (at the front of cockpit, just behind the cabin wall) and manage the boat quite well.
 
To much speed for whatever reason and continuing to go for destination when all your senses are telling you to turn about. Not paying needed attention to time and tides in areas where passes can turn into raging rivers.

Most hazardous situation we have found our selves in thus far was entering Holkham Bay, which is the entry way to Tracy and Endicott Arms off Stephens Passage, Alaska Inland Passage in very heavy fog with current and many icebergs. Fortunately went slow as possible and it turned out OK.

I like many others find it find it difficult to turn about when trying for a destination. Glad we did when very heavily loaded at start of cruise going south on Lynn Canal, Alaska Inland Passage. The mistake in this instance was trying in the first place because I thought the weather was going to get even worse and didn't want to wait for extended time period.

Many have seen the video and read the account of our not paying needed attention to time and tides involving exit of Fords Terror Inlet and it made for one short wild dangerous ride.

Jay
 
I would certainly put breaking inlets right near the top of the list.

6' seas at 10 sec intervals--are very steep--and for me would be a no go--my comfort level is well below that.

Weather--also look at what the weather is going to be at the end of the voyage, as well as the first. I always planed my voyages to try and decent weather at the end--as well as the beginning. Same for current, tides and wave conditions in inlets.

In Paul's region is the conditions in the Straits of San Juan de Fuca--perticullary comming out of cattle pass, or other narrow areas, with wind and seas against current.

Also to be avoided are confused steep seas from many directions.
 
Any constriction like mentioned with the bridge will cause troubles. There are a set of islands at the mouth of Resurrection Bay near Seward that I really enjoy fishing around for king salmon, silver salmon, and halibut. It is normally fairly calm around those islands. However, with a strong south-easterly wind it gets really crazy there. Normally, when you go way out to the tip of Cape Ressurection and it is rough, you can go over to the islands and it is way better as it is somewhat sheltered from the brunt of it thanks to the cape. One day I went over there to split the islands and the surf was crashing into the islands back into the shipping channel. This wouldn't normally be too bad, but the tide was going out too, which made the seas stack up even higher. Things were swirling, the tide was ripping, and I really don't want to ever do that again. It kind of reminded me of what it must be like inside a washing machine. But, with that said, we made it.

As one gets braver (or just dumber) and ventures out farther into the real ocean as I frequently do, you had better learn how your boat handles, what it can do, and which conditions you had better find some safety. Unlike others, I don't really mind a following sea as long as it is not so steep that it stuffs the bow into the next wave. You can make good time in this condition, but don't let your guard down as when the bow goes into the next wave the boat wants to turn sideways on you, but it is easily controllable to an attentive captain. The seas I hate are the seas on the beam that you have to approach like a sailboat captain. It can take seemingly forever to get where you are going. But, there is no other choice sometimes.

One thing for sure, I have quit going out in conditions that are marginal. It is too stressful, potentially dangerous, and just not worth it. I have turned into a fair weather captain that enjoys flat seas and high tides.
 
T.R. -- We still haven't had a chance to gain a lot of experience with our boat in serious seas, so we tend not to venture too far into seas that don't even approach marginal, and we definitely prefer nice conditions. This past fall we headed out into San Francisco Bay with one of our sons on a day that proved a little rough for our current comfort level, and we turned around shortly after passing under the Bay Bridge. My son looked at me with a smile and said, "Tuna!" I gave him the "Huh?" look. "Chicken of the sea, Dad!" I gave him the so-what shrug.

Regards to all,
Greg
 
Nan-C":1308xdc9 said:
T.R. -- We still haven't had a chance to gain a lot of experience with our boat in serious seas, so we tend not to venture too far into seas that don't even approach marginal, and we definitely prefer nice conditions. This past fall we headed out into San Francisco Bay with one of our sons on a day that proved a little rough for our current comfort level, and we turned around shortly after passing under the Bay Bridge. My son looked at me with a smile and said, "Tuna!" I gave him the "Huh?" look. "Chicken of the sea, Dad!" I gave him the so-what shrug.

Regards to all,
Greg
Click to expand...

Greg,

Thanks for sharing that. It is very funny. I too have been tuna a few times. It is probably why were still around huh :wink ? Have a happy holiday and a Merry Christmas.

Tim
 
It is not only inlets and bridges that can constrict the water and cause problems. It is a good idea to pay attention to shallow areas that you may need to round.

On our first trip with SeaSpray we were headed back to Anacortes at the end of our trip. We were going south down the west side of Cypress Island and the water was flat.

I thought we would be fine even with a strong wsw wind and an incoming current. I did not realize the large shallow area that extends south west from the end of Cypress. This created very steep confused waves that really pushed us around. It was so rough I had trouble staying in the helm seat. We were very glad to get past that shallow and turn east and run with the waves.

Steve
 
While not life threatening, my greatest challenge comes in returning to the slip, usually single handed, when the winds go over 10 MPH. Added to the challenge are dozens of tourists gawking at me :embarrased.

After three years I've pretty much got it nailed. The key to success is compensating for the wind by watching the flags around the harbor and taking it slow. Its more about compensating for drift than driving it in. The size of the boat combined with the slip's locus - next to the harbor bulkhead - make for the classic "honeymoon fit".

After I figured out how to handle the CD drift with the wind, retrieving it at a ramp, hooking up to a mooring, and even fishing with it became a lot more fun :thup
 
Hunkydory":nayc9xkp said:
To much speed for whatever reason and continuing to go for destination when all your senses are telling you to turn about. Not paying needed attention to time and tides in areas where passes can turn into raging rivers.

Most hazardous situation we have found our selves in thus far was entering Holkham Bay, which is the entry way to Tracy and Endicott Arms off Stephens Passage, Alaska Inland Passage in very heavy fog with current and many icebergs. Fortunately went slow as possible and it turned out OK.

I like many others find it find it difficult to turn about when trying for a destination. Glad we did when very heavily loaded at start of cruise going south on Lynn Canal, Alaska Inland Passage. The mistake in this instance was trying in the first place because I thought the weather was going to get even worse and didn't want to wait for extended time period.

Many have seen the video and read the account of our not paying needed attention to time and tides involving exit of Fords Terror Inlet and it made for one short wild dangerous ride.

Jay
Click to expand...

For those that may be interest but have not seen the video of some of the situations described above.

This is a short video of entry and exit of Holkham Bay with ice and fog
http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?X ... CID=146191
This is video of the original Fords Terror incident
http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?X ... &CID=53435
This is our return three years later to check out rapid at same state as when we went through it
http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?X ... CID=146173
 
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