Most Challenging Waves I Ever Encountered

[Foggy]

Very cool, Foggy!

Since I could see which direction the storm was coming from (i.e., west, south-west), probably could have employed your technique, in reverse, to predict wind direction when it hit. If pointing to center with left hand, out to side and slightly back, would have hit me in the back coming from south-ish...I think. Is this true?

Gerry

The idea is to track the center of the low and avoid the "dangerous semi-circle".

If you are in Ocean City, MD and the storm low seems to be passing south of
your position, you are in the "safe semi-circle" since the winds would be from
the east as the low passes you; winds circling counterclockwise around the low.
By itself, this may be bad enough.
But if the low travels to the north of you, the winds will be from the west.
Here you get the additive double whammy. The wind from the storm itself
moving east (1) and the west counterclockwise wind generated in the storm (2);
the dangerous semi-circle you want to avoid. This is usually for open ocean
when you get caught "out there".

I wouldn't leave port. a secure anchorage or navigate an inlet in either case
with an approaching storm often hailed a "Local Notice to Mariners" on VHF,
even "small craft warnings" in some areas.


Aye.

 

[thataway]

No not confuse hurricanes or storms which revolve around a low pressure area, with straight line winds which often occur with frontal systems. The more common storm will be a straight line wind, often with thunderstorms--with maximum force. It is not unusual in the Chesapeake and many other areas to have winds reaching 100 knots, and significant damage in micrbursts.

 

[Delphinus]

Hi Roger, Foggy and Bob,

I apologize for the delay in my response; work issues kept me away.

Roger- Thank you very much for your assessment and sharing your experience! I appreciate your thinking that I did not make a mistake judging conditions; that is, w/r to conditions other than the storms. However, I have this nagging feeling that I could have predicted those waves in the inlet, i.e., based on combined effects of outgoing tide, ocean swells and wind-wave direction. I also get the impression those waves would not have bothered you as much as they did me, and that’s encouraging. Powering up the wave and backing off right after you go over the top is exactly what I wanted to do, but my desire to lessen the crash after going airborne, conflicted with my need to get through that one worst wave. Guess I should err on the side of too much rather than too little power for those waves.

You are most certainly correct regarding trying to out run the storm. Missing the storm by one hour is too close for comfort. I have never been caught hard by a storm at sea or in the Chesapeake…because I avoid or out run them. I know that someday I will get caught, and on that day, I pray I can keep everyone safe! As Bob, pointed out, those microbursts can be horrible! Two summers ago we had sustained 80mph winds for 20-30min Middle River, MD; winds and waves did much damage; fortunately, my boat was okay in its slip. Several years ago two sail boats were flattened, at the mouth of Middle River (about 400 yards from my marina), by a water spout, that caught them coming back in (5 people in the water, and one helicoptered out due to injuries). I will have your message as part of my inner voice next time storms are predicted, and I am inclined to “go for it”.

Bob- Thank you for your description of straight line wind that accompanies those dangerous thunderstorms/microbursts on Chesapeake versus other storms and hurricanes. I am sure I can avoid the latter, but must admit that I am still unclear how to tell which storms will be straight line vs. rotational. Obviously, you and Foggy have a better grasp than I. How would you be able to tell the difference, from appearance of the storm on its approach?

Foggy- Thank you for trying to help me understand the “dangerous” vs. “safe semi-circles.” Admittedly, I don’t quite get it and must study a visual representation. I will look up these phrases on Google Images.
I also appreciate your vote on whether or not I should have left or stayed put. I believe it is unanimous--on the parts of all 5 of you, clearly more experienced, C-Dory boaters—that I should not have done it. I will heed your advice in the future!

Sincerely and respectfully,
Gerry
“Dori Den”

 

[rogerbum]

Gerry,

When I've done a good job at powering over a wave, it's generally been a lower power rather than higher. So I think we may be miscommunicating a bit. Once you're over the top, it takes very little power to get down the side and into the next wave. So in my experience, you want just enough power to make it over the top and then you pull back a good bit before applying power again as you start to go up the next wave. If anything, I think you want to err on the too little power side of things. Also, I've found that in very confused seas I can often find a "path" developing that allows me to pick lower crests to go over. In some of the not so pleasant conditions I occasionally encounter at the end of the Strait of Juan de Fuca, I am sometimes jogging port and starboard very frequently as a pick my way through the softer ride path.

 

[thataway]

Gerry,
If you get the Garmin Blue chart app--there will be a option which is to show wind arrows. These are shown for up to a week ahead of time in animation. We can get the weather carts on our computers today--in the past we had to use Weather FAX. The way the shaft points is the way the wind is blowing. The number of "feathers" on the arrows show velocity.

Below is a very simplified weather map of the US. The circular lines have numbers which show the barometric pressure in millibars. There are wind arrows, with the "feathers" which show the normal rotational winds which accompany these lows. This is a basic tenant in long distance sailing; you want to find winds which are going your way, such as the trade winds. (see below)

Now we get a little more complex, where we are going to have some heavy winds between highs and lows. There can be sustained winds of high velocity in this particular case. The closer together the isobar lines (lines which have the same barometric pressure) are the more intense the winds are. Also note the way the winds circulate around the highs (clockwise--northeastern trades)-, which is contradictory to the way they circulate around the lows--in storms. However, notice as you are in one place you will experience winds pretty much in the same direction for a period of time--how long depends on how fast the fronts/highs and lows are moving.

Some basic weather symbols:

Put those together:

A severe squall line or line of thunderstorms, will form in front of a cold front. Below is the weather conditions occurring Nov 16=17 2010, which gave severe winds along the East coast--note the intensity of wind arrows!

A lot to digest, but a quick look into what one can learn about weather and what conditions will come your way. Hopefully this will stimulate you to study about the weather--just another aspect of boating! Weather Underground is a good place to being to learn about weather, I enjoy Dr Jeff Masters commentaries.

 

[Foggy]

Here's a quick course on clouds and what to expect.

First, forget all those confusing cloud names. Look at their shape.

Next, if the whitish clouds are wider than they are tall with blue sky,
it is stable weather. Exception: a wide dark "front" may appear on the
horizon which is usually obvious and threatening.

Then, if the white clouds are taller than they are wide, it is unstable weather.
Take care here. Your glorious afternoon could turn nasty soon...

Aye.
PS: Tall clouds indicate updraft and low pressure forming.

 

[katkt]

Some inlets are always a lot of fun. It all depends on tide, wind, and traffic. All previously mentioned.
I've been in and out of the pass here at Pcola, and it was as flat and nice as you could imagine. Then I've come in the pass, when the water was so confused, I simply slowed down, and maintained a speed that kept me on the back side of the wave in front, and just fast enough to stay up out of the trough. This was actually closer to a washing machine, then waves moving in a particular direction.
On that day, it was sunny skies, and just the normal afternoon breeze coming inshore, off the Gulf. Its so long ago, I don't remember if the tide was coming in, or going out.
At one time, when we were in the trough, the crest around us were high enough, so you were only looking at water and sky, and the trough was not all that big, as far as sid to side, and front to back...more of a hole in the water.
I mentioned it to one of the locals who'd grown up here, and been in and out of the pass a lot, and he told me when he was in high school and invincible, that they use to take a boat and go play in it just for the thrill.
It's not uncommon, to hear about a boat capsizing there.
The things one can do, is stay back and watch other boat traffic, and see what those more experienced do. Wait until things calm down. If it looks safe, and you have the room, follow a larger boat. There is often times a patch of flat water behind the larger boat, and if it carries far enough back to allow a safe following distance, it works well.
If you travel a particular area a lot, learn from the locals, as much about it as you can.

 

[bshillam]

I have been on both coasts and have had 17' to 36' vessels. I have taken water like you explained from the bow to the roof and sheeting off again. Not something I like to experience.
I guess with age and experience I have begun to get more and more conservative. It's not just my wife and I now, we travel with our 4 year old son. So, small craft advisory, heavy winds predicted, or just plain bad weather forecasted and we don't go. No boating day is worth risking my life or that of my crew. I usually will listen to CG bar reports, check noaa, check weather forecasts, and study local maps. Usually the boat will take more than we want.
I also have a plan B in the case of bad weather or develop one quickly so not put myself in a position of desperation.

Sometimes though as others have said, no matter the prep mother nature has a way of being the best teacher. If she wants to throw a curve ball try to be ready.

 

[Delphinus]

Dear Bob, Roger, Foggy, Katkt and Bshillam:

You gentlemen are an amazing wealth of information, and very kind and patient to offer it!!!

I feel you guys are professors at C-Brat University and I should be paying tuition  THANK YOU!!!

Roger- Thank you for explaining and clarifying your approach to taking big waves! I am sure you are right… It definitely makes sense to give just enough power to get over the wave and then throttle back, but I do worry about under-powering through it. It really felt weird when I didn’t push hard enough in that one big wave…it seemed like it had us in its grips for too long.

Bob- Thank you for the wind charts, Garmin Blue Chart App suggestion and Weather Underground reference! I need to study those charts and what you explained A LOT MORE, but I am starting to understand the difference between rotating storms and squall lines. Please don’t be surprised if I have to ask you more about those charts. Thanks again!

Foggy- Thank for you simplifying the cloud shapes and helping me to understand when to predict a threat! Just yesterday evening, I told my wife the sky looked VERY threatening and it turned out to produce some rain but no storm at all. I obviously need to follow the advice of my C-Dory professors and learn more about the weather!

Katkt- Thank you for your great suggestion to adjust speed and ride the backs of the waves (when going with wind and waves)…and also to follow larger boats in the flatten patch behind! I saw a C-Dory doing that on YouTube. Great advice!

Bshillam- That kind of water over the bow is definitely something I want to avoid. The one I described, where we were angled bow down when we hit the next wave (due to very short periods between waves) was worse ever for me. You are definitely right that safety is of primary importance!! I will absolutely follow your lead and check more reports and study local maps better!

Sincerely and Respectfully,
Gerry
"Dori Den"

 

[matt_unique]

You are definitely not the first or the last to make the mistake of cruising in rough seas. I had my own reminder a few years ago about the potential dangers of 'get-home-itus'. While a good reminder/teaching experience, in hindsight I would have sat tight and waited for calmer seas.

It's these moments that teach the most - I bet you are a better captain and will know from experience the right course of action the next time you are faced with this situation.

Glad it worked out safely for you.

 

[Foggy]

Take it from Dirty Harry ("Magnum Force") who said, "A man's got to know
his limitations."

Seems it applies to more than he might have had in mind.

Aye.

 

[Delphinus]

Hi Captain Matt and Foggy,

You are both absolutely right!

Captain Matt- Thank you for your positive spin. As you said, it was an excellent teaching experience that I will not opt for again. I should have sat tight, but had the worst case of “get-home-itus” (despite impending storms and rough seas)…as well as over confidence. I saw no other boats on the ocean, that didn’t have serious business being there (e.g., only coast guard and police looking for downed plane), and that should have been a sign to stay in protected waters. Many mistakes that day that I have learned from and will never forget!! At the same time, I feel a need to get a little of the “hair of the dog that bit me”…challenge similar but less intense conditions to regain some of the confidence it took from me. This I will approach with much more caution and without endangering my wife.

Foggy- You and Dirty Harry are certainly correct, “A man's got to know his limitations.” However, I believe this knowledge may sometimes need to be imposed. This reminds me of another excellent pearl of wisdom you offered earlier, “The sea is a lousy teacher as you often first get the test and later learn the lesson (if you pass the test).” The sea and Dirty Harry have a lot in common

Thanks to both of you for your excellent advice!

Sincerely and with respect,
Gerry
“Dori Den”

 

[Delphinus]

I have gone in and out of this inlet (Ocean City, MD) 5 times since my original posting, once with an outgoing tide and some good size swells, all without any problems.

THANK YOU again to all of you who contributed to my increased competence, confidence and especially safety!

Sincerely and respectfully,
Gerry Ballough,
“Dori Den”