Lighting for night transit

D

d&linAK

New member
Hi everyone, I've got a bit of a lighting issue and I was hoping to get some wisdom from the C-Brats.

I live on a small island about a 5min ride from town that I commute to and from every day. As the days get shorter we've been traveling in the dark more often and are in need of a head/spotlight for travel - we have all the necessary navigation equipment but want to be able to see deadheads and other debris in the water when crossing in the dark.

I bought a 10' LED combo Spot/flood light from Bulldog (http://store.bulldogledlighting.com/10- ... r-p/10.htm)
but it hasn't quite done what we want it to. I've tried both mounting it on the brow of the cabin and up front on the bow, but neither position gets good penetration to the surface of the water (even without much backscatter from small amount of light that hits the front of the boat). I was also looking at a one of the Rigid marine D2 Driving spotlights (http://marine.rigidindustries.com/led-lighting/70131), but I thought that the larger combo Bulldog light bar would have just as much spot light capacity as the Rigid as well as some flood capacity. But as I said, the Bulldog just seems to be very bright without really illuminating the patch of water directly in front of the boat.

Was I wrong to assume that the Bulldog combo light would be as good if not better than the dedicated Rigid Spotlight? Would the Rigid Spotlight have a much more focused beam? Or am I just searching for a non-existent perfect light for under $250.

I've read the arguments against spotlights for night travel, and I don't think the handheld option would be very practical for our needs. Thanks for your input!
 
Sometimes there can be too much light--and the back scatter cancels out the effect. Also the light needs to be lighted as low as possible.
Put foam (water pipe insulation) over the bow railing and pulpit legs.
What speed are you running at?
 
Not too fast, maybe 8-15kts. We usually haven't felt confident enough to get up on step at night. Too much light is an interesting idea, might be better if we just had a smaller focused beam. I had visions of lighting up everything in front of us like it was daytime but maybe that was a little misguided...

(We also don't encounter much traffic (except for commercial fishing boats with their massive halogen lights on) and turn off the spotlight whenever there is anyone in front of us.)
 
This is an interesting topic to me. I have considered adding some very bright lights (LED) to my boat as well. Rigid Industries were what I had decided on. Yes they are $$$ but then they are durable, bright and low drain.

Bobs comment about mounting them low makes a lot of sense to get the light off the fore deck, and cut the back splatter. When I was up north this summer, I saw quite a few boats (frequently the water taxi service boats), with "driving lights of some type), frequently mounted at the bow, and below the deck level, in the fashion of car headlights.

I also had the occasion to use my spotlight several times, when it was very dark. and the back splatter from that is very obtrusive. (I found that a Pringles container, with the bottom cut out, fits over the lens of West marine LED spot light perfectly -- helps a lot.)

That led to the decision that any lights that might be used for running at night would have to be very narrow beam driving lights, with some sort of shielding to keep the light off the for deck. I still think I want my lights high, as opposed to Bobs suggestion for low level, based on the fact that if you want to see over the waves you need a to be higher than the 3-4 feet up to the deck level. I had thought to have a pair of forward pointed driving lights, ( about a 10 - 15 degree light cone) and then a pair of wider "flood" types pointing forward and to the sides slightly, to give an overall pattern of about 45 - 60 degrees forward. I am also thinking I would add a pair of "flood" types, pointing to directly off to the beam so that with all the lights on I would have about a 220 degree coverage. These would all be switched to be activated independently. The lighting system is patterned after a SAR type and would light things up, maybe not quit as much as the big fishing boat HID or halogens. It would certainly show up in the fog, or dawn or dusk and it is not particularly planned for just nighttime cruising.

I haven't done any of this yet, It is a step by step process and it is not cheap. Priorities dictate.

If you are running at night, I would really recommend a good set of driving lights, and also keeping the speed under planning speed. Depending on conditions of course, but you cover the 2-400 feet your lights through goes by very fast.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

Friends_Cal_09_10_Oct.thumb.jpg
 
In most places running with some sort of "headlights" is not approved and may actually be illegal.

The lights you see on the front of some boats are "docking" lights and are only supposed to be used when making docking maneuvers. (That they point straight out the front limits their utility when docking IMO.)

For example, the Virginia equipment regulations say:

"Navigation Lights
Recreational boats, while underway, are required to display navigation lights between sunset and sunrise and during periods of restricted visibility.

No other lights shall be exhibited that could impair the visibility of required running lights or impair the visibility of approaching vessels.
Click to expand...

[bolding is in original text]

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/boating/wo ... ations.asp
 
If you run at night, especially in your area albeit rather short distances, I
would want radar primarily and a spot light secondarily.

Is radar expensive for short runs at night? Of course! If you wonder
"Is it worth it?", first ask yourself "How much is my life and/or boat
worth?".

As for the spot light, I would favor one mounted to port at the bow, on the
deck low enough to prevent reflection from SS rails, etc. And, I'd use this
for close up. say within 20 - 30 meters or closer to your target of interest.
Otherwise, further out, use the radar or FLIR if $$$ comes your way.

Aye.
 
For night running, the order of importance for equipment used:
* Eyeballs
* Radar
* Hand-held spotlight
* Magnetic light that sticks to our bow-mounted anchor (aims downward), plugs into the 12v socket at the helm, so you can plug/unplug as needed
* GPS/chartplotter

I have enjoyed running at night in familiar waters. Not so much in unfamiliar waters or places like the Pacific Northwest where there is a good chance (bad chance?) of debris in the water. I don't intentionally go into deteriorating weather at night.

A good way to get some night practice with less risk is to start out before sunrise - things get "brighter" with time. It also happens to be a very pretty time of the day.
 
My 16 hunting/fishing jet skiff has 4 KC highlighters mounted on the rail in front. They work fine and they are only there in times of need - almost never.....Boating on the river in the dark is no fun. Boating in the ocean in the dark isn't fun either. A mast light up high really works well too, and they don't blind anyone, but I don't know how you'd do that on your 16.
 
Having run hundreds of night miles under sail and power I wouldn't recomend lights
They are illegal in Canada and many countries
Here you would attract a visit by police or coast guard as you look suspicious
Homeland security likely want to know why , where you are
Your vision gets used to low light levels and the lights just mess that up
Keep your speecd down running lites on radar if you have it spot light to check on things and eyes open
The all around light on the c dory needs a shield to keep light off the fordeck
I installed a Perko and it really keeps the deck dark on the few night runs I've made
George
 
ghone":3i5tm5wv said:
The all around light on the c dory needs a shield to keep light off the fordeck
I installed a Perko and it really keeps the deck dark on the few night runs I've made
George
Click to expand...

Glad to hear that as I purchased one of the Perko shields but have not put it on yet (will before next cruise). I haven't run at night yet in the C-Dory, but even when not running, I use the same all-around light for an anchor light, and it shines right into the forehatch (ugh). I'm hoping the Perko shield will help that as well.

I'm with you in that I don't like lights at night (prefer to keep night vision), and I'd be confused if I saw "headlights" on another boat - wouldn't fit any of the patterns that give information as to what the vessel is, where it is headed, etc. That's not to say I might not shine a light out to make out a marker number or etc., but just for that moment, not for "general running."
 
I changed my OEM anchor light to a Perko LED anchor light. It does shine down some onto the foredeck, but I would say it is only about 1/10 of the brightness there that the original incandescent light was. Not sure if part of the difference is the height of the light or not, but the new LED one is about a foot taller than the OEM. I did that so that the anchor light would be above the inflatable when it was up on the rack. The LED light has a pretty narrow light pattern compared to the OEM.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_961.thumb.jpg
 
The best way to avoid serious trouble when contemplating
running at night in unfamiliar waters is don't do it. Why
would you want to do it anyway? Save a little time? Get
to where the fish are?

Who will tell me, using 'eyeballs', radar, a spot light, GPS,
and chart plotter, you can predictably observe and avoid a
floating deadhead directly on your course just below the water
surface at night?

Occasional short night time ventures in fair weather in familiar
waters will most likely prove a less risky voyage.

Reduced visibility at night, as with fog or heavy rain, also
requires a reduction in speed which applies to roadway
vehicles. We're talking common sense here folks.

Heck, I even slow to a walk when I can't see well as a
pedestrian...

Aye.
Grandma used to say, "When it's dark out and you get to be
my age, you should be in bed anyway."
 
Can I spot a deadhead floating just below the surface at night? No. Can not spot it during the day, either, unless there is a lump going on the water.

Have I run at night? Yes, when I had to. Why did I have to? To reach a safe anchorage.

Life is full of surprises.
 
Dave, I'm happy for your (hopefully few) night passages
without incident.

Ever thought you might have been just lucky?

Missed calamities hardly make this a recommendation for
others to attempt.

Aye.
 
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions!

I think I will first try out a low angle spotlight mounted low on the bow, hopefully that will take care of the backscatter issues and just direct a narrow beam of light on the water in front of the boat.

I'm boating at night to get home, and running with a spotlight out here is pretty common. There's not much traffic, and most of that traffic consists of longliners coming back at night with their big halogen lights on. When I see another boat at night I turn off the spotlight.

I'll let y'all know how things work out!
 
many of the work boats 30-45 footers used to run at night in good weather when I was in the fleet, most tried to buddy up for an extra measure of safety, this was in order to get from Seattle to AK quicker, not a lot of difference than some of the many calm pea soup fog days in that part of the ocean, caution and slower speed and maintaining focus and paying close attention are helpful....l day, night or whenever of course.
 
Hey, Foggy, thanks for quoting me. I guess you missed the part about unfamiliar water in the dark? Sure not something I try for.

This also gives me the opportunity to add: in any low visibility situation (foggy, rain, night), I run slow; displacement speed or slower. As a commercial boat driver, I don't always get to pick the weather or time of day. As a recreational boat guy, I can pick the time, but Mother Nature gets to decide the weather. Anyone who has been out for more than an afternoon is aware how fast weather can change. That also means being aware of every anchoring situation, including overnight. You may do a fine job of setting your anchor, but you have to be aware of what is around you, in case the need comes up to move - in the dark.

If one is cruising, you are going to be out in the dark. Best to understand how to deal with it rather than just say, "Don't do it."

As a non-current pilot with 4,000+ hours, commercial/multi-engine/instrument ratings, I am aware that pilots who are not IFR trained or current are cautioned to not get into IFR situations... that said, pilot training for a private license includes training for low visibility and recovery from unusual attitudes. Because things happen. Best to understand how to deal with low visibility and understand lighting (which was the OP's question).

Keeping good night vision is important, that's why "eyeballs" was at the top of my list. Radar for solid things. A hand-held spotlight to see things that might be right at the water's surface. Armed with knowledge and training, you use the available tools. We don't all have a Grandma to tell us when to come inside out of the dark.

For the record, both of my dear ol' Grandmas (long departed) were sweet as could be, but neither could drive a car, much less run a boat or fly an aircraft... if I always took their advice, I would have never left the neighborhood. :wink: Seems to me that people who quote their grandparents all the time are giving unsolicited advice, but make it seem like it is coming from someone else. Not saying the advice is bad, but when weighing advice, I consider the source, the advice, and the circumstances.

As my dear ol' Grandmother on my Mother's side (feisty Irish women) used to say: "It doesn't hurt to listen to advice, but you have to be smart enough to decide for yourself what works." (See the above paragraph) :wink: (See the winkie? It means there's some jokin' going on here.)
 
I saw a few Seasport boats this summer in fisherman bay, lopez island that had some very interesting "headlights" molded into the bow. There was two lights and a molded plastic or fiberglass insert that was located on the bow, below the bow eye, inserted into the glass and more or less flush with the fiberglass. They were very professional looking, and there must be a company specializing in this, unless this is an option for SeaSport.

I thought it was a very cool upgrade and the perfect location for these lights since they wont shine on the boat.

I did a quick google search but didn't come up with anything. Just wanted to add what we saw. If I were considering adding lights for night running, this would be the route I would go, depending on cost of course.
 
PaulNBriannaLynn":jfk19lnw said:
I saw a few Seasport boats this summer in fisherman bay, lopez island that had some very interesting "headlights" molded into the bow. There was two lights and a molded plastic or fiberglass insert that was located on the bow, below the bow eye, inserted into the glass and more or less flush with the fiberglass. They were very professional looking, and there must be a company specializing in this, unless this is an option for SeaSport.

I thought it was a very cool upgrade and the perfect location for these lights since they wont shine on the boat.

I did a quick google search but didn't come up with anything. Just wanted to add what we saw. If I were considering adding lights for night running, this would be the route I would go, depending on cost of course.
Click to expand...
I've seen a few "driving light" kits for boats that had flush mounting flanges - like these docking lights. I've operated several times at night when I fished offshore for too long and had to come back in the dark. I did so safely (no "luck" involved) but I did so at a very low speed - 4-6kts. A speed at which a deadhead might leave a scratch but is unlikely to go through the hull (especially on the relatively narrow profile sponsons of the Tomcat which tend to deflect things either left or right). I've tried various spot lights and decided that even with a very bright light and ideal placement, it was difficult to find lighting that actually improved my ability to see logs and debris in the water. Hence, I just go slow.
 
My approach in fog or dark is:

1. Go slow.
2. Go slower.
3. Open the window so you can listen as well as look.
4. Turn the radar on if you have it. If not, go slower.
5. Turn the auto pilot on if you have it. This allows you to concentrate on using your eyes and your brain for avoiding things, rather than for finding your way. (In the dark at slow speeds it can be a lot harder than you might think to maintain a course manually by watching a chart/plotter screen or a compass.)

I, like others, am not a fan of headlights, but I occasionally stick a handheld spot out that open window to check out something I don't think I should be seeing, or to find something I think should be seeing.

I know several folks like the OP who commute daily and year round in small boats from one island to another in S.E. Alaska. For a good chunk of the year, that means commuting in the dark. Some navigate the Wrangle Narrows. Some cross Frederick Sound. Some are more careful than others, but it is a part of the life there.
 
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