Latitude 38 re. Trailer Powerboats
- Thread starter journey on
- Start date
Don and Brenda
New member
Tom you bring up a good point, you are correct, the sailboat in the Clear Lake incident was not anchored at the time, it was actually under sail power. Interesting enough I just read a blurp the Latitube 38 ran an update on that story in 08, he ought to read his own articles before giving incorrect facts inorder to justify his view!
Captains Cat
New member
Tom, not to defend the sailboats, but when racing (as I have been known to do in the past), you try to pass a "mark" as closely as you can to save time. That's probably why they were doing it
Me, I'd never sail into a bunch of powerboats fishing. I believe when have lines out, it burdens the other boat, even if it's a boat not under power. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Charlie
Me, I'd never sail into a bunch of powerboats fishing. I believe when have lines out, it burdens the other boat, even if it's a boat not under power. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Charlie
In the words of the philosopher, Rodney King: "Can't we all get along?" :roll:
This really isn't about powerboaters vs sailors, even though Max Ebb would like it to be. I've done both and find that they each have their virtues. BUT, what it all comes down to is: time on the water. And, your choice of propulsion. One is not good and the other bad, just like the folks who operate those boats. There are knowledgeable people in both camps... and dumb asses. Let's not let an op piece in a magazine become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Frankly, the idea of an opinion article is to generate some controversy... if we all agree, it's just pretty much a statement of fact. And, where's the debate in that?
Look around... the number of boaters is diminishing... and the percentage of sailors is diminishing even faster. It may be a result of this crappy economy, or it may be the fact that, as a whole, our population has less free time. Regardless, time on the water is precious, whether sail or motor (life is better as a boater... the ending catch phrase from The World of Boating radio show).
One thing we all understand is economics... well, the way our personal spending on boating is done, anyway. And Latitude 38 needs to understand that any boating publication who is divisive is going to drive away readers AND advertisers. Thus, my reason for writing to them in the first place. Freedom of the press allows them to print whatever they want, as long as it isn't libelous. Freedom of our wallets allows us to vote with our dollars. If we let advertisers know how we feel about this situation... and there are damn few boat places that only sell non-auxiliary power sailboats or paddle power boats, then Lat 38 may come to the realization that we all need to pull together to keep our water rights.
So, let's not blast sailors OR powerboaters... there is plenty of dumb assness to go around. Let's do what we do best here and "be nice." And firm. I wrote an article a couple years ago for The Coastal Current in south Texas about "Ragbaggers and Stinkpotters." The jist of it was: we all enjoy our time on the water... and we share the water. Just like Harleys and Hondas share the road. Or sports cars and 18 wheelers. Or bikes and cars. Smile and wave at others who are out there having fun.
Oh, and for Charlie: a small boat with fishing lines out is not considered anything but a powerboat in the regs... it's not the same thing as a fishing trawler with a mile of lines out or a shrimpboat dragging nets. But, as a courtesy, I give them plenty of room, whether I'm in my C-Dory or on a sailboat. I've also seen a bass boat come zooming through the middle of sailboat races... and try to tie off to one of the racing marks. We'd all be better off we we tried to "be nice" and worked together instead of pitting one group against another out there on the water.
Remember what caused the flap on this thread and consider how to best deal with it.
Just saying.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
This really isn't about powerboaters vs sailors, even though Max Ebb would like it to be. I've done both and find that they each have their virtues. BUT, what it all comes down to is: time on the water. And, your choice of propulsion. One is not good and the other bad, just like the folks who operate those boats. There are knowledgeable people in both camps... and dumb asses. Let's not let an op piece in a magazine become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Frankly, the idea of an opinion article is to generate some controversy... if we all agree, it's just pretty much a statement of fact. And, where's the debate in that?
Look around... the number of boaters is diminishing... and the percentage of sailors is diminishing even faster. It may be a result of this crappy economy, or it may be the fact that, as a whole, our population has less free time. Regardless, time on the water is precious, whether sail or motor (life is better as a boater... the ending catch phrase from The World of Boating radio show).
One thing we all understand is economics... well, the way our personal spending on boating is done, anyway. And Latitude 38 needs to understand that any boating publication who is divisive is going to drive away readers AND advertisers. Thus, my reason for writing to them in the first place. Freedom of the press allows them to print whatever they want, as long as it isn't libelous. Freedom of our wallets allows us to vote with our dollars. If we let advertisers know how we feel about this situation... and there are damn few boat places that only sell non-auxiliary power sailboats or paddle power boats, then Lat 38 may come to the realization that we all need to pull together to keep our water rights.
So, let's not blast sailors OR powerboaters... there is plenty of dumb assness to go around. Let's do what we do best here and "be nice." And firm. I wrote an article a couple years ago for The Coastal Current in south Texas about "Ragbaggers and Stinkpotters." The jist of it was: we all enjoy our time on the water... and we share the water. Just like Harleys and Hondas share the road. Or sports cars and 18 wheelers. Or bikes and cars. Smile and wave at others who are out there having fun.
Oh, and for Charlie: a small boat with fishing lines out is not considered anything but a powerboat in the regs... it's not the same thing as a fishing trawler with a mile of lines out or a shrimpboat dragging nets. But, as a courtesy, I give them plenty of room, whether I'm in my C-Dory or on a sailboat. I've also seen a bass boat come zooming through the middle of sailboat races... and try to tie off to one of the racing marks. We'd all be better off we we tried to "be nice" and worked together instead of pitting one group against another out there on the water.
Remember what caused the flap on this thread and consider how to best deal with it.
Just saying.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Jim, you are correct (as usual). There is enough "dumb-assness" to go around. (Funny term, by the way :lol: ). The real problem arises when one view or the other proclaims only their view/opinion is "right". [Of course, I've been known to do something similiar too. :wink:] Personally, I like the feel of a decent sailboat keeling over in the wind and powering through the ocean. But I obviously also love to turn the key and get to where I need/want to go. Proclaiming one is "environmentally positive" while condemning another as "evil" is short-sighted and hypocritical IMO. Yet that view is proclaimed as righteous by some. Seems some people can't look in the mirror. It's always "the other guy"...What ever happened to FREEDOM in this country?
starcrafttom
Active member
Jim, nicely sad
Charlie, not a race marker. I stay away from those. this is a on going case of " I set a way point on the gps and I dont understand why all these boats are in my way?"
happens all around the sound with boats heading to and from the san jauns and other far ports. everyone HAS to cut close to the buoy to save fuel, make time, what ever. I like the middle of the channel my self.
Charlie, not a race marker. I stay away from those. this is a on going case of " I set a way point on the gps and I dont understand why all these boats are in my way?"
happens all around the sound with boats heading to and from the san jauns and other far ports. everyone HAS to cut close to the buoy to save fuel, make time, what ever. I like the middle of the channel my self.
Hi,
I thought I remembered the Clear Lake incident was more to do with alcohol than power boats versus sail boaters. A drunk driving a car hitting a kid on a bicycycle is the cars fault right. After Boris's lead I wrote an email to Load a Tude 38.
Richard,
As a business owner we try not to alienate people. Picking on SUV owners and power boaters like sail boaters,kayaks are better people who use less fuel is simply failed boneheaded thinking in my opinion. I mean I've seen kayaks on SUV's and sailors drive them too! You might be better served embracing all the boating and motoring public to serve your cause. I like sail boaters even though most of my friends think the are cheap and need of more personal hygene. It's to bad some organizations want to run the world to have things their way and think that people who don't agree with them are of poor stock. I owned sail boats but no more. I now own a trailerable pocket cruiser. I probably use less fuel than most of your sailing friends. Better stop with the motor boat and SUV profiling. Your business is dying.
Dave Deem
I could not help myself!
D.D.
I thought I remembered the Clear Lake incident was more to do with alcohol than power boats versus sail boaters. A drunk driving a car hitting a kid on a bicycycle is the cars fault right. After Boris's lead I wrote an email to Load a Tude 38.
Richard,
As a business owner we try not to alienate people. Picking on SUV owners and power boaters like sail boaters,kayaks are better people who use less fuel is simply failed boneheaded thinking in my opinion. I mean I've seen kayaks on SUV's and sailors drive them too! You might be better served embracing all the boating and motoring public to serve your cause. I like sail boaters even though most of my friends think the are cheap and need of more personal hygene. It's to bad some organizations want to run the world to have things their way and think that people who don't agree with them are of poor stock. I owned sail boats but no more. I now own a trailerable pocket cruiser. I probably use less fuel than most of your sailing friends. Better stop with the motor boat and SUV profiling. Your business is dying.
Dave Deem
I could not help myself!
D.D.
Captains Cat
New member
Oh, and for Charlie: a small boat with fishing lines out is not considered anything but a powerboat in the regs... it's not the same thing as a fishing trawler with a mile of lines out or a shrimpboat dragging nets. But, as a courtesy, I give them plenty of room, whether I'm in my C-Dory or on a sailboat.
You're right Jim. I would think though that Tom, in his new 27 could qualify as a fishing trawler and probably has "miles" of lines out... :lol:
And I've seen some races use fixed navigational markers as race "corners" or turning marks. Maybe they shouldn't but they do sometimes.
You're right Jim. I would think though that Tom, in his new 27 could qualify as a fishing trawler and probably has "miles" of lines out... :lol:
And I've seen some races use fixed navigational markers as race "corners" or turning marks. Maybe they shouldn't but they do sometimes.
20dauntless
New member
I can't see any powerboat ban on a major body of water really happening. In the PNW, at least, sailing is not practical as a means of transportation due to the lack of reliable wind and presence of strong tidal currents. The big lakes in our area are filled almost exclusively with powerboats, save from a few small sailboats that I rarely see used. And so many businesses in the area depend on the powerboat crowd that banning them would result in big problems for an already struggling industry.
But, San Juan County, where many of us spend a lot of time, does not allow the operation of PWC's. Personally I find this refreshing. On Lake Washington, people buzz around all over on PWC's at high speeds, cutting off boats and jumping off wakes. It's not having to deal with them in the San Juans. Are some PWC operators responsible? Absolutely! But I think almost all the boaters in the San Juans are better off without them. Many sailors probably feel the same way about powerboats, but thankfully they haven't been able to ban us yet!
But, San Juan County, where many of us spend a lot of time, does not allow the operation of PWC's. Personally I find this refreshing. On Lake Washington, people buzz around all over on PWC's at high speeds, cutting off boats and jumping off wakes. It's not having to deal with them in the San Juans. Are some PWC operators responsible? Absolutely! But I think almost all the boaters in the San Juans are better off without them. Many sailors probably feel the same way about powerboats, but thankfully they haven't been able to ban us yet!
I have a related issue with the anti-powerboat comments often made calling powerboats "stinkpots". I have a sailboat with a diesel engine and a C-Dory with a modern Honda V-TEC. Here in SoCal, we sailors do a LOT of motorsailing, which is motoring along with the sails up (for a more comfortable ride - stabilizes the boat). I'm sure the diesel pollutes much more than the Honda.
I'd like to see a study of that. I'll bet a diesel sailboat pollutes a lot more than my C-Dory, given the same "days per year" use of each boat.
Diesel powerboat - stinkpot - probably. Modern 4 stroke boat, I think not. Same for the better two strokes, like the ETEC I suppose.
-Jeff
I'd like to see a study of that. I'll bet a diesel sailboat pollutes a lot more than my C-Dory, given the same "days per year" use of each boat.
Diesel powerboat - stinkpot - probably. Modern 4 stroke boat, I think not. Same for the better two strokes, like the ETEC I suppose.
-Jeff
20dauntless
New member
Modern common rail diesels are pretty clean, too. I haven't personally used one on a boat, but if the new diesels from Mercedes, BMW, and Volkswagen are any indication, they produce virtually no smoke or smell.
starcrafttom
Active member
so let me get this right. you think its ok to get rid of jet skis and limit their use but your happy the sail boats have not done so to you??? There is a on going effort in the Puget sound to limit the speed to 10 knots, there is also a effort to limit whale watching to "shore base only" whale watching. I find the jet ski band repulsive to free thinking people. Do I like jet ski's? does it matter what I like? no to both.
starcrafttom
Active member
Larry i just spent a hour searching for the news article and can find it,i suck at online searches. it was going to be part of the noaa proposal for the no go zone on the west side of san juan island, which gladly failed. It never made it into the proposal , a sound wide speed limit or no wake zone, because it was to big of a first step, but it was being talked about on some chat rooms and boards. this is why when the No go zone proposal by noaa had public meetings 200 fisherman showed up, as well as a lot of kayakers to get it stopped.
My point it that I don't try and limit others just because I don't like what they do for fear that someone else will use my success to limit what I want to do.
My point it that I don't try and limit others just because I don't like what they do for fear that someone else will use my success to limit what I want to do.
Matt Gurnsey
New member
Um, I may be reponsible for the Urban Legend of the 10 knot speed zone.
A couple of years ago, I was priviledged to write the April Fools article for the April issue of Sea Magazine. The topic I chose was the turning of all of Puget Sound into a "No Wake Zone". Like the article in a previous April issue about the draining of Lake Powell, my article took on a life of it's own. The genesis of the idea was from my friend Mike. We were just joking around about rediculous things, and the no wake zone idea came up (along with the eleimination of all pumpouts, and boats built of recycled newsprint like paper mache).
It was a fun article to write, and the more outrageous I made the article, the more believable it became. It was weird. There was a blurb at the end, highlighted in yellow, that the article was, in fact, a joke. Even with that, many people beleived it was serious and I had friends in the industry call me to tell me they were completely taken in, even after reading the article two or three times.
I went so far as to put clues in the article so sharp readers would catch onto the fact that it was a joke. The scientests mentioned in the article were Doctor Sevrenson and Prof. Poul Shaffer. The woman spokesman for the environmental group (whose acronym I forget right this moment, but it was rediculous) was Nancy Drough.
Sea doesn't do a funny article every April, but there is a tradition of them so that they do one fairly often. I would like to write one again sometime.
A couple of years ago, I was priviledged to write the April Fools article for the April issue of Sea Magazine. The topic I chose was the turning of all of Puget Sound into a "No Wake Zone". Like the article in a previous April issue about the draining of Lake Powell, my article took on a life of it's own. The genesis of the idea was from my friend Mike. We were just joking around about rediculous things, and the no wake zone idea came up (along with the eleimination of all pumpouts, and boats built of recycled newsprint like paper mache).
It was a fun article to write, and the more outrageous I made the article, the more believable it became. It was weird. There was a blurb at the end, highlighted in yellow, that the article was, in fact, a joke. Even with that, many people beleived it was serious and I had friends in the industry call me to tell me they were completely taken in, even after reading the article two or three times.
I went so far as to put clues in the article so sharp readers would catch onto the fact that it was a joke. The scientests mentioned in the article were Doctor Sevrenson and Prof. Poul Shaffer. The woman spokesman for the environmental group (whose acronym I forget right this moment, but it was rediculous) was Nancy Drough.
Sea doesn't do a funny article every April, but there is a tradition of them so that they do one fairly often. I would like to write one again sometime.
I look forward to reading latitude each month. The editor seems to be an unabashed libertarian with a UC santa barbara or berkeley education. I recall him writing about their newly acquired photo boat a few years ago. I believe it was a classic Bertram 31 which was deisel powered. About 10 years ago they published a 2 page photo of me sailing one of my former sailboats near the GG bridge. This was taken from a power boat. I wouldn't be too hard on them for occasionally ribbing us stinkpotters. I suspect a little hypocritical envy may contribute to their journalistic bias.
Dan
Dan
Most of the time when I see a sailboat underway, they are using their motor for propulsion with their sails down. I think most of the sailors don't even know how to sail, they just use their boat for a chick magnet. Bunch of hypocrites will hurt themselves as much as they hurt us. Ban motors and most of those sailboats are useless.