Latitude 38 re. Trailer Powerboats

J

journey on

New member
Looking through the latest (Aug) issue of Latitude 38, I found the following item of interest. It's attached to an article titled "MAX EBB'S S.O.S." and this quote was in: "A Better Plan To Save Sailing".

The salient points:

· Infiltrate the most powerful open space and environmental advocacy groups. It's for their own good. Audubon Society needs to realize that every kayaker becomes a birder, and Sierra Club needs to understand that every sailor becomes a stakeholder in the natural shoreline. These groups should be the natural allies of non-motorized sailors and paddlers — the trailerable powerboat or Jet Ski (usually hauled around by an SUV) is the natural enemy. Join these groups and help set the policies.
· Support no-wake areas and powerboat bans. Thrillcraft activity is usually preemptive of quiet and non-annoying forms of boating, and reduces the carrying capacity of small bodies of water. We don't need to wait for the next fuel price shock to divert some of the market back to sail and paddle.

I've been hero to zero, but now I'm hero to enemy. As a long time sailor, I wrote an article expressing my disagreement to Latitude 38 at richard@latitude38.com.

Boris
 
Being saying it for years that some people will not be happy until they are the only ones in charge and all other only do what they believe is right. It amazes me that so many people have forgotten what freedom is and are so willing to take it from others just to make them selves happier. I will read their publication no more. too bad it was a good read. I will also ask the owners of several marine stores who carry it when its out to put them out of business.

if you find this interesting then you should read what the owner of west marine thinks about using oil.
 
Tom, I respectfully disagree with not ever reading it again. Lat38 will just chalk it up to a few disgruntled readers and not change their attitude.

What I did was write a letter telling them I was a dedicated long time sailor and pointing out that I now had a powerboat but I still wanted to support sailing and didn't like being called the enemy. Sort of appear one of them and let them think there's many more of me around. That's why I included their e-mail address. I also mentioned that many people who sail have BIG SUV's.

However you're right, they want their own limited world to be the way they want it. Everyone sail, paddle and ride bicycles. Or else.

Boris
 
of course its a waste of time not reading their mag. they won't notice . but its not as much of a waste of time writing them a letter. they will just laugh or shake their heads that you don't get it. they will feel pity that you are not enlightened enough it get it and place you on the enemies list. What I can do is write and talk to stores that carry their mag and talk them into not carrying it. if the rag is not available to read then they can not spread their message, can they.
 
I think I read somewhere that most sailboats are actually powered-boats that on average run under sail only 30% of the time. The other 70% is by petrochemical power. So if they ban powerboats, they also have to ban powered sailboats, don’t they?
 
Jay,

You're looking at logic. The only time we truly sailed was from Mexico to Polynesia, and at that we spent a couple of days under power, particularly at the Equator. Going up to Alaska, I tried sailing on the Inside Passage and damn near got run down by a cruise ship. On the East Coast, you can't sail on the ICW. So your logic is true.

But for the viewpoint espoused by Lat38, everyone sails all the time, and if they power, they get better mileage than you (at hull speed.) So now your logic doesn't hold, for them.

And I've seen them publish letters that don't agree with them. Just so they can explain how wrong you are.

The other thought is that if they make the definition of true sailors so restricted, they may find themselves with only 3 followers, who don't vote.

In the C-Brats, I'm preaching to the choir. Writing to them, at least I'm telling them someone thinks they're full of it.

Boris
 
I fired off a letter and got a quick response. Here it is with my return response...


On Aug 25, 2010, at 8:32 PM, Richard Spindler <richard@latitude38.com> wrote:

James -

What Max Ebb writes in his column is his opinion, not the opinion of Latitude or the publisher of Latitude. We try to make that very clear in the Letters section of the September issue of Latitude when another powerboater made the same complaint you did. Our attitude is that you should enjoy whatever kind of boating you like, but try to be mindful of fuel consumption — even if you're motoring a sailboat.

I appreciate your taking the time to give me an earful.
Click to expand...

----------------------------
Please understand that I truly appreciate and support free expression.  I am mindful of my fuel usage, having traveled thousands of miles with our trailerable trawler.  One of our goals in retiring in our early 50s was to be able to travel with our boat... and we have certainly been doing that.

As a former business owner, I also know that any of our co-workers represented our company... even if their opinion differed from mine.  If they chased away our customers by their words or actions, those customers were still gone.

I am simply exercising my right to an opinion, as well.  As a retired photographer and writer, I know the current state of the publishing industry.  I'm absolutely NOT suggesting you or anyone on your staff shouldn't be allowed a "controversial" opinion... but to drive away readers and customers for your advertisers isn't good for anyone.

Respectfully,
James Bathurst

No intent to make this a crusade - I love boating... ALL kinds of boating.

Sent from my iPad
 
Mr. Ebb 's opinions on Lat38 regarding power boaters reminds me of a H.L. Mencken quotation on Puritans. It has broad application in many of our current endeavors. Mencken defined Puritans "as persons obsessed with the knowledge that somewhere, there is another person doing something he enjoys." John
 
Yellowstone":1h3zuhju said:
Mr. Ebb 's opinions on Lat38 regarding power boaters reminds me of a H.L. Mencken quotation on Puritans. It has broad application in many of our current endeavors. Mencken defined Puritans "as persons obsessed with the knowledge that somewhere, there is another person doing something he enjoys." John
Click to expand...

Nice quote, John! I've never heard it before, but have met many who embody its truth, God rest their forlorn souls!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I agree with Jay, our house looks over Saratoga passage and all day I watch sail boats going by under power, occasionally I will see one with their sail up. Now I understand that in the PNW the winds are not always conducive to sailing, however when you have that motor turned on you are no longer a sail boat in fact that means you are a power boat and follow power boats rules of the water.
 
Being a chauvenist by reputation, I get Latitude 38 free each month while economically bleeding at WEST Marine. But I only look at the pictures. Thanks for informing me of something I would have been blissfully unaware of.
 
Being a former Baha HA HA participant, I can tell you that the publisher of Lat38 and his large catamaran (Profligate) motored most of the way to Cabo from San Diego, as did most of the 100+ sailing vessels.
 
I just got a call back from the local marine store owner in Everett. He will no longer allow lat 38 to be placed in his store nor will he advertise in it. that's one and I will hit other stores later in the week.
 
Response to my response...

---------------------------

James -
Here's my reply to the letter that will appear in the September 1 issue:

       Richard — Whoa! There needs to be some clarifications, and on several levels, too. First, what Max writes is his opinion, not necessarily the opinion of Latitude 38. Having said that, let's review Max's three main points.
 
1) Max said that trailerable powerboats and jet skis are the "natural enemy" of the Audubon Society and Sierra Club, not sailors — although we can certainly think of specific times and circumstances when recklessly-operated powerboats and jet skis are the enemies of sailors. Such as when they broadside anchored sailboats a la the tragedy on Clear Lake, and when they endlessly and noisily circle sailboats.
          On a second reading, we can see how some readers might take Max to have been saying that trailerable powerboats and jet skis are the natural enemy of sailors. If that's what he meant, we strongly disagree with him. It's a big Bay and ocean out there.

    2) Max said that all operators of powerboats need to be licensed. Given the meaninglessness of automobile driver licenses, we're ambivalent about licensing in general — as least as practiced in this state. But given the huge disparity between the number of people injured and killed in small powerboats and jet skis compared to the number injured and killed in sailboats, we think it's an idea worth considering. But only in the case of boats that can regularly be operated in excess of 10 knots. There is no denying that speed kills on the water, and many trailerable powerboats and jet skis have that kind of speed — and often a lot more — to burn.

3) Max said he supports "no-wake areas and powerboat bans" in "small bodies of water". We suppose his statement could have been read to mean they should be banned entirely, but we're certain he didn't mean that. After all, what would he use for race committee boats, crash boats and research projects?

     Due to a scheduling mix up, we were once given a powerboat rather than a sailboat for a week long 'familiarization' tour of Tonga. We found the powerboat to be convenient, but boring as hell. But hey, if that's what somebody else likes, good for them. Our only hope is that no matter what kind of boat anyone operates — including an auxiliary powered sailboat, that they do so being mindful of how much fuel they burn, using it as efficiently as possible. And that at some point — maybe burning 50 gallons an hour — it becomes just a bit tacky.

End of response.

I hope that clarifies Latitude's positions.
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I think his response was a bunch of garbage, he spent a lot of words to not say much other than to try and deflect someone else's opinion away from his magazine. In reality his views are not much different than the original article. Powerboat operators need a license, sailboat owners don't need one, I have seen many sailboaters that had no idea what they were doing on the water and became a hazard to all boaters, guess that's ok though.
 
Called and talked to ranger tugs today and they are reviewing whether they will advertise in lat 38 in the future. they were surprised by the articles language.
 
Code: 
1) Max said that trailerable powerboats and jet skis are the "natural enemy" of the Audubon Society and Sierra Club, not sailors — although we can certainly think of specific times and circumstances when recklessly-operated powerboats and jet skis are the enemies of sailors. Such as when they broadside anchored sailboats a la the tragedy on Clear Lake, and when they endlessly and noisily circle sailboats.

why are boater the enemy of any one??? and why is that determined by the type of propulsion? many boats and even jet skies support not only the audubon society and the sierra club ( not me) but many wildlife and conservation orgs. and if you don't why is that bad?

reckless boaters are a danger to everyone. I have have dam near been ran over twice by ski boats. Not because ski boats are a danger but because some folks have their heads up their a$$e$.

I do believe that the sail boat he is talking about on clear lake was under way not anchored but I may be wrong.

i was fishing off a bouy this weekend with 7 other boats. there is a reef and the buoy which the fish hang around so I have to fish there with in 100 yards of the buoy. to the out side of the buoy is 4 miles of open water. guess where 9 out of ten boats ,power and sail, passed the buoy?? with in 50 yards or less of the buoy. I almost got ran down by 20 sail boats, 10 power boats and 3 local cruise boats. Why???? why do they have weave thru 7 fishing boats to get to Seattle when they can go a 100 yard to the right?? you should fish PNP when the tides change and a sail boat will try and drive thru 50 fishing boats with in a 100 yards of the beach??? why??? because a-holes own both power and sail and jet skis. its not the boat that make the man is the man that makes a a-hole.

the response by lat 38 is insulting. :evil:

hey here's a list of evils committed by sailors
the whaling industry
the slave trade
the exploitation of America, Africa and the far east.
that song "sailing away"

all of these thing where not possible with out sail boats.
 
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