Kayak advice needed...

S

SEA3PO

New member
Sue had such a great time at Catalina renting a kayak, that we have been talking about buying 2 for us to carry with us on the boat.

!. Does any one have experience with Kelpper folding kayaks ? We want single boats... easy to carry.. easy to use ?? as good as plastic kayaks?

2. If we go with plastic kayaks... It looks like most sea-kayaks are 15-18' long and I wonder about hauling them on the top of the dory...

3. Does anyone have experience with any of the inflatable ones ? I worry because I can't keep a air mattress inflated all night...much less half way down the Sacramento River....

I need advise.... our plans are doing some river camping, paddling the Channel Islands...and some in the San Juans ... mostly ocean stuff..no surf or whitewater kayaking...(kids stuff)..


Thanks

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Joel,
We have owned a 16 foot Ultra light/stitch and glue which I built, and several of the cheap inflatables. (not recommended) This last summer we picked up the Hobie Mirage Revolution and the 9 foot inflatable. The mirage drive units are so much easier to "paddle" with the foot drive. (We have back problems which magnifies the problems with paddling) The use of kayaks became more of a joy with this drive. We had considered the double boats, but they were too heavy for use to easily handle. A 13.5' Revolution mirage drive will outpace a longer paddled boat, because of the effeciency of the drive unit vs the paddle.

There are several models of the plastic boats, but for our use the Revolution fit best. The inflatable does not go as fast, but is more convient to carry (39lbs). At the same peddling cadence, the inflatable will go about 3/4 knot slower (4.25 vs 5)--at slower cadences, the difference is less. These boats both have sails (small, but will be easily driven. They are also good for fishing and we are fitting a fish finder on the Revolution.

You will probably get as many opinions as there are owners of the various boats. We have never owned a Keppler, but have friends who have, and have observed others. Generally they take longer to put together than an inflatable, and are not as durable as a plastic boat.

The plastic boat will do better on barnacles, and sharp rocks. We prefer the sit on top type of boats--but there are advantages to the sit inside boats.

Things to consider: weight of the boat, ease of getting into the boat from the C Dory, room for your frame, knees, and behind...., how you will use them.

Good luck--they are great fun!
 
we use a pair of kayaks, works great... we have a couple of Old Town Loons and one of these- http://www.hurricaneaquasports.com/santee-100.html

I like the two boat concept, I'd much rather hork two light items on the roof than one heavy....the photo album has some kayak hauling ideas.

let me check with the spousal unit before I officially make the offer of their use to you....but I would have no problem with ya's borrowing them if you want
 
We have a couple of Ocean Kayak Frenzy's. They are short (9 feet) but fairly wide and very stable and paddle easily. We use them for paddling around the cabin and I plan to take them with me to the Broughtons this summer. I haven't worked out exactly how yet, but I'm thinking I'll mount the Thule J racks directly to the pilothouse roof on each side of the high top. I will through bolt them and use starboard as a backing. That way I'll be able to take 2 kayaks on the pilothouse roof. Does anyone know if this will affect radar performance?

These 2 kayaks will replace the inflatable I took last year. They are much more fun to paddle around in and will be a lot more conducive to exploring. And they are unbreakable...don't ask me how I know.
 
Our radar doesn't seem to care about the kayaks mounted on the roof...I suppose if they had much metal in them..or..if I was trying to spot vessels many miles away they would be a hinderance.....I suspect that big blob O' plastic on the roof would effect the range
 
You are correct in that most "sea" kayaks start around 15' in length, but some are shorter and recreation kayaks come as short as 7-8'. With all the brands available you can find a kayak that fits you (cockpit opening plus leg and feet room), your paddling style/activity (recreation/sea kayak), construction material (hard shell, folding, inflatable), and your budget.

I prefer kayaks to the conventinal dinghy. Hardshell kayaks are really only practical for two people on a 22 cruiser because of space, but if you go with inflatables you can carry 3 or 4 or more.

I would not recommend a folding kayak. They are great for their intended uses, but are hard to assemble (relatively speaking) and require a large flat surface so you need them assembled before leaving shore. Once you do that you might as well have hard shell boats.

I recommend you look at inflatables from Advanced Elements or the high end Sevvlor (Sevytex models) to name just two companies. These boats are rugged. They store in bags/backpacks, can be inflated and deflated onboard a C-Dory, and paddle pretty well. You can store them on the roof or put them back in the bags when finished paddling. These are not pool or kid's toys.

I carry a pair of sea kayaks on top my 22 Cruiser (14.5' and 15.5') with a combined weight approaching 150 lbs including all the kayak gear inside the kayaks with no trouble at all. I also carry a Sevylor in a bag. Loading the boats on to the roof from the water is fairly easy for two people. I must bring them on over the bow because of the radar arch. I find inflatables to be a little easier to handle than hardshells and easier on the boat.

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Hi Joel,

We have the Advanced Elements double kayak made for West Marine. I bought it last year and have to say I'm not particularly crazy about it. With two of us, the forward cockpit is too narrow for normal size people. When I use it by myself, the bow of the kayak raises up and moves hither and yon (and how often do you get to use that in a conversation?), wasting effort. I'm going to try to sell it at our "Trash to Treasures" sale this weekend.

I like the idea of the inflatable for space and portability. Dr. Bob let me try out his Hobie (hardside) with the peddles - very nice!

Best wishes,
Jim
 
I bought my daughter one of the 2 seater Sea Eagle 330 Kayaks for Christmas and for what she and her boyfriend use it for it's perfect. It's light enough they can easily carry it to the end of the dock and lower it. It's fairly durable but an oyster or barnacle would probably puncture it. For protected sandy beaches it's fine but I certainly wouldn't use it in waters where a dunk could be fatal. She had a West Marine plastic kayak before and it was just to heavy for her.
 
I usually like to toss in an option to the kayak.

Look into sup stand up paddle board. They will do all you wanted to do in your list but imho is way more fun, the best workout since highschool wind sprints in football, totally fun because if it wasn't I would not enjoy it. They do all the kayaking stuff from a standing position, some can be used for windsurfing and of course surfing. They will cost more board, paddle, wet gear but oh the benefit. Oh and did I say fun fun fun.

Plus they are lighter than a kayak. But if you want a kayak you want a kayak. I have 2 sitting around never being used since I sup.
 
Boy, This really depends on how you want to use the kayaks, and how you want to store them. I agree with the comment about the folding kayak. But then you may want to pull up a sandbar, put the kayaks together and go for a long paddle. For inflatable kayaks, you will not get the performance out of them that you will with a hard shell, but that may not be a priority for you. I have a Advanced Elements StraitEdge for a tender and I like it for that purpose. When I get into my 17 1/2 foot Current Designs sea kayak, it's like getting into a sports car compared to the StraitEdge. The StraitEdge is a bit bulky packed up because of the semi bow and stern frame, but I usually leave it on top of the C-Dory. Some of the new high pressure floor inflatables are nice, this technology is producing some higher performance kayaks in the speed and tracking areas. Most inflatable kayaks are designed for river use and have more of a rocker, but their are some good flat water kayaks from Advanced Elements and Aire to name just two.
For a hard shell kayak, again, new technology is adding many new choices. The older rotomold polyethylene is giving way to plastic laminates, and most kayak builders have their own proprietary name for this process. EddyLine may have been the first with a material called Carbonlite. I had two kayaks made out of this material and it is superior to both rotomolding and fiberglass in some areas. It is very strong and durable, and light weight. A 13 1/2 foot Eddyline Merlin weighs 42 pounds. A lighter material would be glass/kevlar. My Current Design 17 1/2 foot kayak weighs about 47 pounds. More expensive, and you need to be more careful with the boat on rocks etc. I just looked up the price of this boat, and they have gone way up! $3400.
Wood is another good alternative. A 14 foot Pygmy weighs 42 pounds. I saw the new Hobie inflatable at the Seattle Boat show and that looked very cool. Very rigid high pressure design.

If you ever get over towards the coast, I would recommend going to Monterey Bay Kayaks in Monterey, or a similar kayak store in Santa Cruz. They have all kinds of kayaks, and are extremely helpful and informative. Take them for a test drive. If you are going to get into and out of the kayak at the C-Dory, how much stability do they have?

Right now, I think that I would look at the new plastic laminates.

Robbi
 
We have the two seat model of the inflatable sevylor (sp) colorado. It works great except that Susan and I dont paddle well together. So I'm thinking of picking up a single. At the boat show we looked at some singles that had a clear bottom plate between you legs with a cup holder over it. The salesman said to set a flash light at night in the cup holder facing down. You will get a great show of fish. I think it would be a lot of fun looking thru the window.
 
You might want to check out the Native Watercraft Kayaks. They have the most comfortable seat in a kayak I've ever been in. Go to: www.nativewatercraft.com I have two kayaks, a Heritage 12 Redfish and a Native Watercraft 11' Manta ray. If I had it to do over, I would have two of the Ultimate 12 boats set up for fishing instead of what I have.
 
Boy, this discussion is a hot one for us! We also have debated how to carry kayaks on the Bartender, where the load issues are much more severe than they are in a 22 CD.

Perhaps I can save some time for others:

1. Folders: Most folders are impossible to assemble on deck; the beach is best, but I think Folbot's Citibot would be very doable on deck: US made, very light, easy to assemble; terrific warranty, and ideal for protected waters. Down sides: not a great boat for anybody over 230-250, and perhaps not as good in rough water as other craft with more freeboard. Folbot: http://www.folbot.com/kayaks/citibot/ There are no doubles I would recommend for this purpose.

2. Plastic: If you want a boat you can slam around and over rocks, oysters, etc., without worrying about the hull, get a plastic boat. Wilderness Systems has some "open cockpit" boats, edging towards the "recreational kayak" zone which are well made and have good value for the dollar. Better in rough water than the Citibot, but heavier, by quite a bit. the doubles are small for full-size folks, but ideal for people below 180 lbs each. WS 160T: http://www.wildernesssystems.com/pamlico-160t Note this one has a rudder, a critically important safety feature which will make sure you can get back to the boat, if the wind comes up. Check out the other Pamlicao models if you want a single for each person. Down side: plastic boats are heavy.

3. Glass (aka composite): Glass boats are expensive! If you really want a glass boat for its lighter weight and better performance, there is a wide range of choices. If you want a double, the Current Designs Kestrel 170T would be a best buy: http://www.cdkayak.com/products/templat ... 658a65e100 Their Kestrel 140 is a trerific little single, with easy-entry cockpit, and very light weight (<40 lbs!!!): http://www.cdkayak.com/products/templat ... 658a65e100

No affiliation with any of these companies, just a satisfied user of their products.

Happy paddling!

PS: inflatable kayaks are pigs in the wind and slow, slow dogs. Not recommended.
 
From my experience from a paddling perspective here is what to expect:

a. Inflatables take the most energy to move a given distance. If the weather cools off, they get even harder to paddle as they soften up. They are probably the most stable and easiest to board from a 22.
b. Foldable boats will go further for less energy than an inflatable if properly assembled. I don't recommend assembly on board.
c. Plastic boats are good utility boats. You don't have to worry about how your treat them. As a true kayak getting in and out from my 22 takes some practice and thought so you don't get wet. For my wife the best approach is to drop her off on the beach and then I bring the kayaks over. They paddle pretty well.
d. Glass or kevlar boats are by far the top of the line. A friend of mine has a glass boat I have taken a couple of times and getting it from the water up to the roof over the bow pretty easy. On the beach you can carry it with one hand holding onto the cockpit. They are the most efficient to paddle.

I can't recommend a double on a CD22. I have carried one on one trip, and it is not easy to load and unload especially with a radar arch. Without an arch it might be easier since you can pick it up for and aft and set it on the roof.

I saw the paddle boards in Hi last month. It is intriguing but I would have to wear a dry suit.
 
Fiberglass, plastic and inflatable - each has a place - not all inflatables are slow -

My Current Designs like Robi said is very fast - great for extended tours and even some surfing. You can cover a lot of distance - but make sure you know how to roll, wet exit and dress for immersion in the PNW even in summer.
When it comes to the CDory - I use it to get to a new location and then then convenience and safety of boarding an Aire Superlynx inflatable works well.

Many inflatables are slow but the Superlynx is designed with low wind profile, self bailing - reportedly the thickest air floor in the industry and cleary the best no fault ten year warranty. It is not slow especially when loaded correctly with one or two persons. It will handle very rough white water in an emergency -Though not a lot of creek bouldering as its built with minimal rocker. Carry a pump to add air to adjust for temp-load etc.

The transfer from CDory to a fiberglass kayak has its glass on glass challenges. Transfer from CDory to plastic boat - not much problem with plastic on fiberglass

Transfer from CDory to Inflatable like the Superlynx - incredibly easy with no major risks of damage to either boat - come to the Indian Cove CBGT if you want to try a Superlynx - I also have a white water Perception kayak you could try just to get the idea about the differences in entry.

One other aspect is the sit on top inflatable kayak can be great for two adults and a dog or two better behaved smaller grandchildren who tend to look over the same side at the same time. [short trips only]

I have used inflatable and plastic and fiberglass white water kayaks in white water- grade 3-4. Once you dump its very easy to re enter the inflatable kayak -- The Aire inflatables will work well in emergency storm conditions - two persons lying head to toe in the bottom of the kayak would be very stable - so it all depends on what you want to do.


Have fun
Jim
 
I have the Hobie Mirage Adventure Island tri-hull sailing kayak. It is the Adventure sea kayak with outriggers.

While this tri-hull is more of a mess to store, it cannot be beat for long comfortable trips on a kayak. The Hobie Mirage pedal drive is a lifesaver - quiet, easy on the back, fast, and leaves your hands free to eat, take photos, fish, or hold a grandchild on your lap.

I have spent 8-10 hour days sailing on it with only brief breaks. This is possible because you can change your sitting/lying position easily when sailing, which is my most common source of propulsion.

Hobie makes many different models, but the long, narrow Adventure sea kayak is the easiest to paddle or pedal. They make a very short - 9 foot - Sport model that a grade school kid can load and operate alone.

Anyone using the sit-in, standard kayaks must keep up on their training to roll back upright. The "sit-on" rotomolded models may not seem as cool, but you can easily slide on and off them and can sit cross-wise, etc., as you please to avoid cramping. They are also almost indestructable around rocks, and sharp areas. It's possible to grind a hole in one over time, but you can "plastic weld" a patch if that happens.

The Adventure Island tri-hull, sailing rig is fun and goes right through the surf and wakes like a bullet. Just be sure to take a deep breath if it's a huge wave you're going through!

I am addicted to the thrill of being close to the water. You feel like you are going much faster than you really are. I learned to sail as a kid on a sail board and, as I got into larger and larger sailcraft over the years, I really missed that excitement of being right "in" or directly "upon" the water.

I hardly ever use the paddle, and mainly use the pedal drive to sneak up on wildlife, birds, or to dock the boat. You can run the rotomolded hull up on just about anything - ice, rocks, trees, whatever.

If you plan on spending long periods of time exploring on a kayak, the tri-hull Adventure Island Mirage is worth the trouble of storing the outriggers. They are light and only held in place by two elastic straps on each side. For short, quick paddling, you can just put the main hull in the water.

If you want the smallest, easiest to handle models, the little 9 ft Sport will go in and out of the water quickly but is more difficult to paddle/pedal long distances.

At any rate, the rigid hull kayaks are superior to inflatables in the normal range of technology. There may be some advanced design foldable that equals the rigid models, but I am not aware of it.

You know, just paddling a kayak around open water is kind of boring! BUT rigging up the tri-hull Adventure Island and screaming around waves and wakes is an absolute hoot - the thrill of many of my outings. To me, it's well worth the trouble of assembly.

I need to add the the Adventure Island is so stable you can stand up and walk around on it. Great for taking a break, stretching, fishing, whatever.


To put this in perspective, imagine you've spent a calm morning paddling your kayak to an interesting shore, had a good day there, but on your way back to the boat, an unfavorable wind picks up. That happens a lot around here. So you end up spending 4-6 hours paddling like a madman, with the wind blowing you off course and every time you rest, you slip back a few hundred yards... AAARRRGGHHH!

Now, imagine you are in the Adventure Island sailing rig. The wind comes up. You pull a cord and the fully battened sail unfurls on the rotating carbon fiber mast in a second. You tension the main sheet and kaboom! You are now having the time of your life in what could have been hours of torture! 25-30 mph winds are the most fun!

John
 
Jim,

My dinghy of choice is the Power Drifter, made the same way as the Aire inflatables (I think by the same company). The Aire inflatables do paddle well and the self bailing feature makes it nice to carry on the roof and not worry about filling up with water. I opted for the Power Drifter because I could put two seats in across the tubes to sit up off the floor and paddle it with kayak paddles.
 
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