Honda 2 hp Kicker for 22' Cruiser, and 8'6" Dinghy

kennharriet":3dzohqyr said:
To save a 100lbs, I hope by the time I need to repower the main, someone has checked out the Honda 60hp.

You can add me to that list for trying it out as a single on a modern 22 Cruiser (or the Yamaha 70, which I already have the gauges/control for). Very interesting idea (to me). Of course then I would still want to consider the super-light secondary engine to save even more weight :D Shoot, I could almost have it back to design specs!

That's unless I get a Marinaut and put a Honda 115 on it :wink
 
I have a proposal for you Sunbeam. How about you purchase one of the new Yamahas or the new Honda 60. If you need help justifying the cost, I would borrow it to see how it works out on our 22.

I really am interested in the concept of the lighter, lower hp motors. There is certainly safety in speed with twins or higher hp singles to limit exposure to oncoming weather or a medical emergency, etc. We seldom travel faster than just above planing speed normally. If that could be done with a motor that would relieve the transom of 100 lbs, I would look hard at doing it. It would be an expensive experiment if it was inadequate though. :)
 
I think we should take it a step further: You get the Honda 60, I'll get the Yamaha 70, and we'll run them both and compare :thup

Clearly the boats do great even when we throw large engines, big tanks full of fuel, added batteries, fully loaded coolers, and more at them (gotta love it), but I did talk to someone who's had a lot of C-Dory experience and who ran one with a very light stern (i.e. what was planned for in the design). He said it was very noticeably better handling. So it would be fun to try.

Of course in the next minute I'm fantasizing about getting all the weight out of the stern *except* a Honda 115, just because who doesn't like a big, capable engine that can power the boat at full speed while just loafing along at (relatively) low RPM.

Another concept that was suggested (by someone else who would do this if buying a 22) was to power with a single Honda 50 (this person would have been completely satisfied with what that would provide; surely everyone would not), and then be able to add a second 50 for re-sale or just if one felt like it. Of course that would mean going from a single to twins (rigging), and having engines with different numbers of hours on them, etc. So not that appealing to me. But it's always fun to toss around ideas.

But seriously, the Honda 60 or Yamaha 70 are very interesting to me. I also can't help but wonder if the Yamaha 90 might be coming up on a lighter/newer re-design, since their 115 is barely any heavier. I wouldn't mind a Yamaha 90 that was lighter, had a larger alternator, and had a better way to support when trailering (I believe the current 90 is like my 80, which doesn't lend itself well to a simple trailering support, and the ones Yamaha makes don't fit on it. I customized an M/Y Wedge to fit, but it still seems like something that should be designed for on an engine that they know will be used on many trailerable boats).

Luckily I have the Yamaha 80 to carry me while I think about it :lol:
 
For the record, there was a 22 with a Honda 50 on it which sold in Pensacola. When I was checking it out for several potential buyers, I asked about speeds--the seller said it might barely plane with a light load--12 to 13. I am quite sure the buyer repowered the boat.
 
The Honda 2 HP is good for mixing margaritas. As for furnishing aux power for a CD-22.....if the 22 was powered by a 50 HP 2 stroke with 3 gallons of fuel onboard, no baggage/gear and driven by a 5 year old child your chances of making headway in anything but a bathtub would be fair to middling.
 
I have a Suzuki 2.5 outboard which I bought for dingy use. Great small outboard. I use it on a 14ft kaboat which we carry in the RV and it pushes me, wife and 2 dogs up and down the rivers. I can use it as a kicker on our CD19 and it pushes it about 5 mph in calm conditions which is enough to get us somewhere in the event that the 90 would not work. The 2.5 is light enough that I can carry it around with ease and that, for me, is a key attribute.
 
Ok I'm ready for everybody to kick my ass on this one, I have received great service from Sea Tow, just anchor and wait. Whats the deal no extra anything, noise, fuel, maintaince, oh did I forget money? My first Sea Tow bill made all of my investment of dues return plus a 50% profit. No I don't have stock nor do I work for Sea Tow. I drive an 89 Chevy wagon and you know I use AAA and for $17.50 a year extra I get my boat included. I'm an ageing hippy who knows how to make it work, I just don't push my gear until a recent service interval is finished, know what I mean? Oh to stay on the subject, I would not consider a 2hp on a 22 for any reason unless you know there will be no current or wind, because if you had both I'm sure you know that would'nt cut it, yes I do understand you weight lifting issue. All the best on sorting this out.
 
SeaTow/Vessel Assist/Boat US etc are fine, if they are near you, serve your area, and you don't get hit with "salvage" charges (way way beyond the regular "tow". (One of my friends who had a Boat US service, got hit with $9,000 "Salvage" charge, a bit of a story, and he learned a lot of lessons)

If you can get Sea Tow (or any towing service) which covers your boat on an AAA policy for $17.50 a year extra--that is a real bargain! According to current Sea Tow literature, the give 15% off for AAA members for a "lake" or "gold" service. The regular price starts at $169 a year.

There are times/places where you cannot anchor--there are times where you have to get yourself out of harm's way, without the time to wait for a towing service--which may be many miles away, and busy with a dozen other calls.

I have personally never had a towing service. Again--personal choices--and what is available. There are a lot of places where these services are not available. Florida shallow waters, and relative lack of currents are far different from what one may find in, Maine, S. Calif, or the PNW. Never assume that boating conditions are the same in other parts of the US/Canada, let alone many other parts of the world.

But this thread is about dinghy motors and kicker motors--and what one's comfort level is. A tow service may be some folks cup of tea.
 
slowtrot":3r39sd7k said:
I have a Suzuki 2.5 outboard ... I can use it as a kicker on our CD19 and it pushes it about 5 mph in calm conditions which is enough to get us somewhere in the event that the 90 would not work.

It sounds like your secondary engine expectations and desires are similar to mine. Can I ask what sort of mount you have on the C-Dory for it? And how does it work with the short shaft (since they don't make a long shaft model)?

Clearly it does work, but I'm used to having a long shaft and just wondering. Even if I end up with a Honda 2, having the Suzuki as a choice is nice.
 
jimicliff":i2iyz5gl said:
Ok I'm ready for everybody to kick my ass on this one, I have received great service from Sea Tow, just anchor and wait. Whats the deal no extra anything, noise, fuel, maintaince, oh did I forget money?

I tend to agree with Thataway. Here are some reasons I wouldn't always prefer (or be able to use) a tow service - or to put it another way, reasons I want more than just a tow service and a credit card.

1) Many areas don't have one available at all.

2) I've seen professional towboat services come and make hookups that would have damaged the towed boat (other boaters zipped over in a dinghy and helped them to make better choices), so it's not always a no-brainer.

3) There are times I would just rather get myself out of trouble.

4) Sometimes there is no time to wait (not schedule time, but imminent danger time). Tow services cannot always be there right away.

5) Getting one's self out of trouble can help to hone (or maintain) skills.
 
I have often read how many boaters think the wind and the tides/currents are something to "fight". And I have also heard another approach from boaters who generally came from a slower sailing or human powered background. Their opinion of wind and current is quite different. They see it as an opportunity to gain advantage and speed, to cut a passage time in half or something to avoid if the details are not in their favor and relish the time spent while conditions improve.

If it's 1pm on a Sunday and you still have some distance to cover back to the launch and now your main is acting up, its a stressful situation for most. Being able to start another motor and keep doing what your used to is exactly what we lean toward first. After all, you should be back at work tomorrow and your were hoping to eat at that restaurant on the way home and there are a few chores at home you were hoping to complete before hitting the hay.

Starting up a 10hp outboard and going the direction you want, right now, at a speed that still gives a sensation of power and control is exactly what people want at that time and I have done exactly that myself with twins and it is satisfying. But was it necessary?

When discussing backup power for a boat and the obvious trend toward lightening the load and minimizing the power requirement, we are really discussing a safety threshold. How much power does a person need to keep safe in their boat. We don't all have gobs of time, but pushing, hurrying, and fighting is often what gets people into trouble in the first place and often what makes it worse. Even with a large kicker, you may not have enough time to make it back to the launch that day.

There are some local/use factors that may change the game for some, but I find a C-dory to be a very safe boat even un-powered. At least in the WA/BC region, it doesn't take much thrust to keep a boat away from rocky shores if you are willing (for the sake of safety) to go WITH the wind or current using limited power to sometimes steer more than drive and look out for that cove or beach or bay around the next bend. Once you reach this safe place, you can evaluate the problem and come up with an approach to a solution. I know fixing broken stuff is not everyone's idea of a good time but if you maintain your motor well, and run it with some level of skill and attention, it will not put you in a bind with any frequency.

I know we are a power boating group with a general lean toward speed (I like it too), but I think it's wise to remember the other side. If you limit your exposure and stay out of big, open water in poor conditions, I think it is perfectly acceptable to put a very small kicker on the back of even a Tomcat to provide you with some movement and steerage to get you to a safer place to address any issues that occur, or just to putt along and enjoy the scenery.

If you have not taken the time to putt-putt your boat at 3mph for a few hours and notice how well you do actually cover water, I would encourage you to do just that and realize that moving slowly is still moving and it doesn't take speed to be safe. It takes good judgement and sometimes patience as well.

Not coincidently, I am leaving tonight to lead a west coast Vancouver island four day off shore kayaking trip travelling at 3-4mph safely in conditions I might not enjoy in my C-Dory. Don't fight it, ride it.
 
Well, said, Greg.
Those were my thoughts exactly when I was reading this thread - only I couldn't write them down nearly as well as you did.
 
Very true Greg--and well said.

We had the main engine fail on a 26 foot Sea Skiff in the early 60's. I had a 2 HP Evinrude outboard for the dinghy and a 2 x 4 bracket I bolted to gather to hold that motor on the transom. It pushed the boat the 5 miles to the marina in a bit over an hour.

Getting to safety is the goal if you have an engine failure, which is extremely rare with modern outboards.
 
One more comment about a small dinghy motor used in case of main engine failure: if you don't have a bracket for the stern of your boat that will work for the dinghy motor, you can hip-tie the dinghy to the rear quarter of your boat and use the motor on the dinghy. It wouldn't be convenient, but it might be enough.

When we tried the 2.5 hp on the stern of our 25, I found I could "roughly steer" the boat using the main engine as a tiller. It wasn't crisp (understatement), but you could move the boat in the general direction you intended... then, go back to the dinghy motor, loosen the steering tension and have better steering.

Just a couple more considerations to have in your safety arsenal.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
Sunbeam":b1lpn2ua said:
I think we should take it a step further: You get the Honda 60, I'll get the Yamaha 70, and we'll run them both and compare :thup

Clearly the boats do great even when we throw large engines, big tanks full of fuel, added batteries, fully loaded coolers, and more at them (gotta love it), but I did talk to someone who's had a lot of C-Dory experience and who ran one with a very light stern (i.e. what was planned for in the design). He said it was very noticeably better handling. So it would be fun to try.

FWIW,

Our 1991 CD22 Cruiser originally had a 70hp 2-stroke Yamaha. Light, but after we loaded her up with 58 gal of fuel and a bunch of stuff for a summer in SE Alaska, the 70 could not get her up onto a clean plane until we had burned off a good bit of fuel.

We replaced the 70 with a 2-stroke 90, also much lighter than the current four strokes, and she worked really well. If the plan includes cruising with a fairly heavy load, I'd be surprised if a 70 would cut it.
 
Since my real kicker is a twin to my main 40 Yami, I don't have experience with a small kicker on the 22 Cruiser. I did have a Merc 3.5 on my Montgomery 15 for years, and loved it. Dependable, economic and reasonably quiet. I'm sure it would move a CD 22, but it would be slow. AS Barry said, it might be a long slow slog in some conditions, (PNW currents for instance.)

The Merc had forward and Neutral. Reverse was accomplished with a 180 degree spin. An on-board only fuel tank only, something short of a gallon, and started every time on the first pull. I would do a Merc again, but having only limited experience with the Honda 2.0, (One weekend was enough) I found it noisy and vibrating. The Merc was a bit heavier than the Honda, yes, but so much more comfortable.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

1_Honda_Power_2_B_ham_CBGT_2009_956.thumb.jpg VS JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_055.highlight.jpg
 

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Harvey, Actually the Merc (Tohatsu, NIssan) 3.5 HP outboards are very slightly lighter than the Honda 2 HP. Merc is 28 lbs and the Honda is 29 lbs. The Merc 3.5 HP two stroke carries 0.37 gallons (1.4 Liters) of fuel, which goes a long way, especially if you are going slowly with out trying to plane. I carry a gallon can of the premix, which lasts for a whole trip of several weeks of going to shore with the dog.
 
Kinda depends on whether we are discussing the 2-stroke Merc/Tohatsu or the 4-stroke, as far as weight. The one we have now is a 4-stroke - it weighs 41 pounds. Quite a bit heavier than the Honda 2.3 at 29 to 31 pounds (short/long shaft) or the 28.6 pounds of the Merc 3.5 2-stroke. I notice the weight difference as I hang over the dock, lowering the motor onto the dinghy... could be the years, too. :wink:

Best wishes,
Jim
 
I agree on that 10 lbs. making a big difference for dinghy work, with an inflatable especially. When I would stand on the floor of the inflatable (high-pressure air floor in a Hypalon Achilles), that 28# (Honda 2) was about all I could manage. Different people have different capabilities, but the dingy moving around (plus the floor jiggling) reduced mine over a hard deck. I called it "jimmy legs."
 
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