Please help! I have been using my Dory to teach kiteboarding and have been LOVING it!!! except anchoring... I was trying to anchor to hold position and setup the kite off the stern. However the vessel sails back and forth soo much that she would pull the anchor and drift down on the kite lines and create a huge, time wasting mess. I tried a danforth, bruce and plow anchors so far. Conditions are varied; soft mud with HEAVY weeds, and semi weedy sand. Water depth is usually 3-5 ft and I have 10 ft of chain and have played with 3:1 to 10:1 scope all with the same results, esp as the wind come up into high teens, and forget about an anchor holding in 30!!! any wisdom here fellas??? anchors and all oversized for my 22...
high wind: anchoring aches
- Thread starter C Sniper
- Start date
I would try adding at least another 10ft of chain to your rode for better holding and a plow shape like our rocna has done better in weeds for us that either of the two others you mentioned. We use 35ft of 1/4in chain and wouldnt use much less for challenging conditions.
Greg
Greg
Hi C-Sniper. We had a CD-25 and our home waters are the same as yours. I have seen your boat on the hard on the island and at Bayside Marine. We have anchored many times in the Laguna Madre and Barracuda Cove over the years.
Here's what worked for us: a Delta Fast Set anchor (22 pound) and 50' of chain. My preference for chain length is twice the boat length, with 200' of additional rope rode.
Boats like the C-Dory have a lot of windage, and not a lot of boat below the waterline... they are going to sail around when at anchor. More chain is your friend, but you can also made a bridle by running some line from a rear cleat and tying a rolling hitch to the chain to create an angle. The boat will still sail around, but the arc will be less.
When anchoring in the Laguna, look for a sandy patch to lower the anchor, where it will get a better bite than in the weeds. Let the boat drift back as you let out more chain. Yes, there is a lot weeds, but the sandy patches are there.
Alternatively, you can put out two anchors, forming a V off the bow, but that is a lot more work. I haven't felt the need to do that in the Laguna, but have used that when anchoring in other areas when cruising (generally using a dinghy to set the second anchor). Also, the option of setting a second anchor off the stern; I did that on occasion when we had a sailing trimaran, but only used that a couple times with the C-Dory, and not in the Laguna.
Keep in mind the height off the water of your bow and factor that in when choosing a scope. That extra 3 to 4 feet of height will increase the length of how much rode you put out to get your desired scope.
The flat bottom small fishing boats here can get away with less chain and less thought about technique since they don't present much boat to the wind. Those with cabin type boats have to work a bit harder, as you have found out.
Hope that helps.
Here's what worked for us: a Delta Fast Set anchor (22 pound) and 50' of chain. My preference for chain length is twice the boat length, with 200' of additional rope rode.
Boats like the C-Dory have a lot of windage, and not a lot of boat below the waterline... they are going to sail around when at anchor. More chain is your friend, but you can also made a bridle by running some line from a rear cleat and tying a rolling hitch to the chain to create an angle. The boat will still sail around, but the arc will be less.
When anchoring in the Laguna, look for a sandy patch to lower the anchor, where it will get a better bite than in the weeds. Let the boat drift back as you let out more chain. Yes, there is a lot weeds, but the sandy patches are there.
Alternatively, you can put out two anchors, forming a V off the bow, but that is a lot more work. I haven't felt the need to do that in the Laguna, but have used that when anchoring in other areas when cruising (generally using a dinghy to set the second anchor). Also, the option of setting a second anchor off the stern; I did that on occasion when we had a sailing trimaran, but only used that a couple times with the C-Dory, and not in the Laguna.
Keep in mind the height off the water of your bow and factor that in when choosing a scope. That extra 3 to 4 feet of height will increase the length of how much rode you put out to get your desired scope.
The flat bottom small fishing boats here can get away with less chain and less thought about technique since they don't present much boat to the wind. Those with cabin type boats have to work a bit harder, as you have found out.
Hope that helps.
Mostly good advice so far but know this, no matter what type of anchor you have off the bow, that is not going to change the boat response to the breeze. You will still sail.
Addressing you anchor. (And I know there are many opinions on anchors so here is another one you haven't gotten from here so far.) First, the physics of anchoring. You want it to dig in, and then stay. The anchors shaped to do that are not plows -- designed to move forward in the soil and lay it to the side. Look at a spade, scoop or whatever else they get called shape. Rocna, or Vulcan are shaped to bring the substrate together in front of the anchor and toward the moving force, compacting it rather than dividing and spreading it. (Mine has held in 25-30+k winds, but . . . . you need more chain too.
Chain. Yes, at least your boat length, or a minimum of twice that. I would suggest a minimum of 50 feet for a 22. If you are anchoring in 5 feet, and for a 7 to 1 scope and 5 feet water to bow height, you are at 40 feet at least.
I have 70 feet of chain, and rarely get onto the rode with the Windlass gypsy.
OK, not that will get a hold on the ground, now what keeps you from sailing, since that all happens at the stern, not the bow.
I have not done this but have seen it work very successfully. A window sash weight, or a pair of them off the stern and on a line just long enough to reach the bottom plus a couple of feet. They won't snag, or hangup on the bottom and drag your stern under in a rising tide or a big wake. They will mitigate most of the swing energy.
A small drogue off the stern will decrease the swing.
A 5 gal bucket with some weight in it and dropped just below the hull depth will help. I have done this with 2 buckets, on on each side, and it was quite effective.
For a very short holding session, I have fired up one of the outboards and put it into reverse, pulling against the anchor at just a shade past idle and it held me in position for a short photo session (And Yes my Rocna did not budge for about 10 minutes of shooting.) On another occasion, in deep water, I turned the boat into the wind, set the auto pilot, and backed off on the throttle to just match the downwind drift speed, and stood in the cockpit for about 15 minutes of photography, maintaining the boat position there. Probably don't want to try that with lines in the water, aft of the cockpit though.
First, you need the right anchor, then a proper amount of chain, then mitigate the swing with some sort of lateral friction.
Now, time to swing into action.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
Addressing you anchor. (And I know there are many opinions on anchors so here is another one you haven't gotten from here so far.) First, the physics of anchoring. You want it to dig in, and then stay. The anchors shaped to do that are not plows -- designed to move forward in the soil and lay it to the side. Look at a spade, scoop or whatever else they get called shape. Rocna, or Vulcan are shaped to bring the substrate together in front of the anchor and toward the moving force, compacting it rather than dividing and spreading it. (Mine has held in 25-30+k winds, but . . . . you need more chain too.
Chain. Yes, at least your boat length, or a minimum of twice that. I would suggest a minimum of 50 feet for a 22. If you are anchoring in 5 feet, and for a 7 to 1 scope and 5 feet water to bow height, you are at 40 feet at least.
I have 70 feet of chain, and rarely get onto the rode with the Windlass gypsy.
OK, not that will get a hold on the ground, now what keeps you from sailing, since that all happens at the stern, not the bow.
I have not done this but have seen it work very successfully. A window sash weight, or a pair of them off the stern and on a line just long enough to reach the bottom plus a couple of feet. They won't snag, or hangup on the bottom and drag your stern under in a rising tide or a big wake. They will mitigate most of the swing energy.
A small drogue off the stern will decrease the swing.
A 5 gal bucket with some weight in it and dropped just below the hull depth will help. I have done this with 2 buckets, on on each side, and it was quite effective.
For a very short holding session, I have fired up one of the outboards and put it into reverse, pulling against the anchor at just a shade past idle and it held me in position for a short photo session (And Yes my Rocna did not budge for about 10 minutes of shooting.) On another occasion, in deep water, I turned the boat into the wind, set the auto pilot, and backed off on the throttle to just match the downwind drift speed, and stood in the cockpit for about 15 minutes of photography, maintaining the boat position there. Probably don't want to try that with lines in the water, aft of the cockpit though.
First, you need the right anchor, then a proper amount of chain, then mitigate the swing with some sort of lateral friction.
Now, time to swing into action.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
colbysmith
Active member
As others have stated, the C-Dorys will sail. (Swing in layman's terms.) And man will they sail when it's really windy. I think the only way you will stop that, along with getting a bow anchor to set, is to set another anchor off the stern.
If I were faced with these issues, I would use one of the "scoop" type of anchors-, and that would be the Mantus, Ronca, Valcan or one of the super Max. Danforth anchors have to be genuine, High Tensile strength, with the "T" on the inner side of flukes, or a Fortress--both of these would need more chain.
The lots of week is a major problem.
Back the boat down full throttle (slowly going there). I have anchored larger boats in over 90 knots of wind. The Old plows are not that good, and the Delta is also not so good in this situation. My personal experience with the Bruce has been bad.
As for the sailing--this is a case where I would put some heavy weights, along with a lot of surface area beneath the boat aft--to minimize this swinging. You want something in the bottom--maybe one of the "box" anchors (which are very award.)
Are you holding onto the kite lines from the cockpit of the boat? If so I would consider using a float rather than the boat as staging area.
The lots of week is a major problem.
Back the boat down full throttle (slowly going there). I have anchored larger boats in over 90 knots of wind. The Old plows are not that good, and the Delta is also not so good in this situation. My personal experience with the Bruce has been bad.
As for the sailing--this is a case where I would put some heavy weights, along with a lot of surface area beneath the boat aft--to minimize this swinging. You want something in the bottom--maybe one of the "box" anchors (which are very award.)
Are you holding onto the kite lines from the cockpit of the boat? If so I would consider using a float rather than the boat as staging area.
I was trying to inflate and set out the lines from the cockpit. I have switched back to the bow. Reverse at 1100-1300 rpms depending on the wind speed and the vessle slowing snakes back and forth upwind in "auto pilot". Used this for years off my skiff. OK time to try another anchor and all chain rode. thanks again!!!
C Sniper":11602ram said:
I'm not sure I understand this: Reversing into a 20 - 30 knot wind (and resulting wind waves -- chop --), with OB's in Reverse, Auto pilot engaged, and operator is up on the foredeck working a kite.
If my mental picture of that is close, that would be making me somewhat nervous. :?
I would go with a Rocna 6 (or 10) and if you are using a windlass, at least (minimum 501 ft) but 70 to 100 feet of chain. You will find the chain to gypsy connection will not slip, making retrieval very easy. If you are always in less than 10 feet of water, 70 feet will do. If you are getting into deeper and still in that 20-30K winds, 100 feet will allow you to let out more chain and will help reduce some of the sailing.
Add a downrigger ball weight off the stern and you will maintain a good stable platform.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
sorry suto pilot should have ben in quotes... autopilot = the wind pushes the boat back and forth keeping the stern into the wind, it is a wind actuated auto pilot, not a real one. Has worked for me, on local waters to setup kiteboarding kites on pontoon boats, ski boats, skiffs, offshore center consoles, and now with a c dory (definitely the hardest boat I have ever tried to teach kiteboarding off of, ooph). yet becoming my favorite boat!!! If you don't believe me try it, go out and put your boat in R (given at least 10 knots wind) (and can't be crazy currents), she will round up stern into the wind. Then watch your track on nav screen closely. If you're tracking down wind bump rpms up 50 and check again, repear as necessary to get a sloooow upwind track, gotta be patient... I my case water is so shallow I just look down at the weeds instead of nav screen zoomed in at max. dern weeds!!! hence anchor issues, ugh
this is what has worked for me for 20 yrs in my waters, I am not suggesting it will work where you are, but then again if you are not teaching kiteboarding then why worry about it right?
this is what has worked for me for 20 yrs in my waters, I am not suggesting it will work where you are, but then again if you are not teaching kiteboarding then why worry about it right?
colbysmith
Active member
I agree with Harvey here. If I understand correctly that you are backing into the wind, there is a good chance you can get wave's pushing into your stern's splash well. Take a big enough wave, and you'll end up with the water in your cockpit. Or are we misunderstanding something?
Edit...
OK, reread what you wrote a few more times. What I'm gleaning now is that you are actually letting the wind push you forward, but keeping the engine in reverse at very low rpms so as to keep the stern in the wind, and allow the wind to weather vane the bow. Is that correct? Either way I believe you are setting yourself up to take water over the stern into the splash well. In larger waves at some point I think you might be able to swamp the boat. Colby
Edit...
OK, reread what you wrote a few more times. What I'm gleaning now is that you are actually letting the wind push you forward, but keeping the engine in reverse at very low rpms so as to keep the stern in the wind, and allow the wind to weather vane the bow. Is that correct? Either way I believe you are setting yourself up to take water over the stern into the splash well. In larger waves at some point I think you might be able to swamp the boat. Colby
Peter & Judy
New member
One of my biggest complaints (and one of the few complaints that I have) with a C-Dory is that it does sail a lot in the wind and current due to its flat bottom. With the cabin and we often have the camper back on it and often two kayaks up top, it also has a high profile that has a lot of windage. This makes it sail more at anchor and also makes it harder to dock in high winds. I don't know what the solution is to stop this, but we have come to the conclusion to shore tie most times when we anchor. This is not possible in open water, but a rear anchor might help to keep the swing out of the boat. Another option that I have considered, but not tried yet is to hang a sea actor off the stern of the boat to prevent or slow the swinging you get off anchor.
As far as anchors go, I have a Manson Supreme which has proven to hold very well with 30 feet of chain. I am considering going up to about 50 feet of chain. The one place that I have problems holding in are very weedy places or if the bottom has a lot of seagrass. In mud or sand the holding has been excellent in very windy conditions.
As far as anchors go, I have a Manson Supreme which has proven to hold very well with 30 feet of chain. I am considering going up to about 50 feet of chain. The one place that I have problems holding in are very weedy places or if the bottom has a lot of seagrass. In mud or sand the holding has been excellent in very windy conditions.
Peter & Judy
New member
My boat came with a Honda 90 and Honda 9.9 and both are in excellent condition, but if they would have come with twins I would be fine with that, but if I were buying a new boat and outfitting it from scratch, I certainly would consider twins.
BTW. My better half does most of the docking and I am usually the one to jump onto the dock.
bobjarrard
New member
Some boats will respond in a good way to a small riding sail, lots of older "Character Boats" have a stubby mast with short boom - an old sail can be cut down to as flat as possible for not much money and rigged to hoist with minimal hardware/attachment points. Using a length of nylon that is spliced onto the bow ring and then rolling hitched to the anchor rode will lower what the boat is seeing as the fulcrum or swing point above the water and give you more efficient anchor line scope. In the end, if you watch your stored GPS plots on even a calm day or use a trail camera set on the cabin top you will be amazed how much boats hunt over time. Have a great balance of this Holiday season. Bob Jarrard in Nevada