gritty fine black mold

Remember that Dan Corcoran (author of the link by Greg) has his boat in a higher latitude. The units may work in Fl--[but by increasing heat (over all)--the peltier effect is transfer of heat--and cold for condensation,] may be counter productive in Fl.

Also Dan increased the ventilation in his boat.

Some of my comment is based on the relative in-effeciency of the peltier coolers--They are used in the cheap 12 volt cool boxes.

As for running on 12 volts--easy to do--since DC current is behind the technology for both the fan and cooling element--the issue is keeping the battery charged. It may work fine with a solar charger. But if you are going to use a dehumidifier, I would also increase ventillation--such as with low current draw muffin (computer) fans.
 
I've had good luck wth water and 10-20% bleach in a spray bottle and wipe it on, leave it rest for a few minutes, and it usually wipes right off. Just keep it away from fabrics. We leave the center window open a crack to let air move, but the simple fact of the matter is that if you do not have a building to store the boat in...it's a constant battle.

Rick
 
From Sunbeams post: (non-pertinent stuff clipped) emphasis bold and underline is mine (H)

"A couple of years ago I was dealing with a mold/mildew situation in a camper. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I read very good things about boric acid (Borax). It it slightly base, which from what I read is a good thing, and also relatively non-toxic and non-damaging. It sounded to me like a better bet than bleach or vinegar. Also you don't have to rinse the final application and the residue (not that you can see or feel it) supposedly repels mold/mildew. Last of all it is basic and inexpensive (in the old fashioned baking-soda type of way).

So, if it were me, I would remove as much gear as possible, clean what's left to within an inch of its life, wipe down with a clean batch of boric acid/water (you can find the ratios online), prop everything possible open, and ensure as much air circulation as possible. "

Curious if you have tried this and how it worked. In mixing the borax (a granulated powder) the stuff settles in the water and even with warm to hot water, does not dissolve. It leaves a gritty residue when dry. I mixed it according to the package instructions, 1/2 cup per pint of water. What am I doing wrong or what do I need to do different?

I don't have black mold, but am cleaning and want to do some preventative treatment.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

IMGP6689.highlight.jpg
 
Sunbeam's post uses both boric acid and borax as if they are the same. They are not. That mix sounds like too much borax to me, although it is supposed to be highly soluble in water. The grit left over is probably sand or other stuff that contaminated the borax. I expect either would inhibit mold. Wikipedia on each:

Boric acid: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boric_acid

In combination with its use as an insecticide, boric acid also prevents and destroys existing wet and dry rot in timbers. It can be used in combination with an ethylene glycol carrier to treat external wood against fungal and insect attack. It is possible to buy borate-impregnated rods for insertion into wood via drill holes where dampness and moisture is known to collect and sit. It is available in a gel form and injectable paste form for treating rot affected wood without the need to replace the timber. Concentrates of borate-based treatments can be used to prevent slime, mycelium, and algae growth, even in marine environments.


Borax: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax

Anti-fungal compound for fiberglass and cellulose insulation
 
I am using the "Borax" 20 mule team version. The box had been opened previously, and there is some very mild clumping that beaks down easily when squeezed between thumb and forefinger.

The mixing directions are on the side of the box for cleaning stains.

I had hoped to put it through a spray bottle, but think the residue would clog the spray nozzle shortly.

Was going to clean with vinegar solution first then put down the borax solution to dry and leave as a preventative.

Does that sound like it would work if I don't get down to the gritty borax part of the solution?

Thanks for the quick replies.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

January_2010_558.thumb.jpg
 
20 mule team Borax I believe has some mild abrasive quality. I used to use it a lot. Never could get it dissolve in water. There are other borates you can dissolve.
 
It should dissolve in warm water with mixing (we use telfon coated magnetic stir bars and a heated stir plate routinely).

If it does not dissolve after a few minutes of hand mixing, I would purchase a new box and store the rest in a tightly sealed container.
see http://www.20muleteamlaundry.com/
for addtl info

and during use, recommended using safety glasses
 
thataway":fsvm4tmp said:
20 mule team Borax I believe has some mild abrasive quality. I used to use it a lot. Never could get it dissolve in water. There are other borates you can dissolve.
I think the abrasives are added, or perhaps inherent in the mineral deposit. Pure borax should not be abrasive. Brent's dissolving technique is what I would do. Stirring with a clean spoon should do it, also.

A fresh box is a simple, low cost solution. Just dissolve what the water will take up and pour it off. Leave the grit behind. Pouring it through a coffee filter set in a funnel may take out the fine gritty stuff, also.
 
Thanks Guys,

The gritty stuff is OK for cleaning but I didn't want to leave it as residue. The mixing with very warm water and stirring is how I did it but it may be that there is too much borax to go into solution. The coffee filter is a good trick. The borax is a mineral, crystal, so I don't think there is much chance of there not being some gritty residue present when it dries. The "boric acid" is a liquid and would not have the abrasive qualities.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_961.highlight.jpg
 
Harvey, pure boric acid is crystalline. But if it is pure, should not be any grit in it. I suspect the liquid is a solution with water.

Boric acid
Chemical Compound
Boric acid, also called hydrogen borate, boracic acid, orthoboric acid and acidum boricum, is a weak, monobasic Lewis acid of boron often used as an antiseptic, insecticide, flame retardant, neutron ... Wikipedia
Formula: H3BO3
Melting point: 339.6°F (170.9°C)
Soluble in: Water
IUPAC ID: Trihydroxidoboron, Boric acid
 
"Boraxo", was the name of the hand cleaner, and it is different than the Laundry deterrgent booster. Not sure which Harvey has. If it is the laundry booster, then it should disolve. The hand cleaner has grit, just like some of the citrius hand cleaners. It used to come in a black and white can, with the 20 mule team logo around the bottom of the ovoid can.

"Borax" is the sodium salt of Boric Acid (a bit more complex in its formula because there are severa sodium salt complexes) This was pointed out in Dave's earlier post. I can remember the borax (Borate) mines near Death Valley (Trucks even back in the 40's and 50's--no mule teams--but there used to be)! As i remember the mined material, it was fine crystaline, but I suspect that there was some silica in the mined material. The last borax mine in Death Valley closed in 2005, so although mining Borax was started in late 1800's it condintued on into the 21st century, on a limited scale.
 
A combination of hot water, bleach, a detergent (borax and bleach can safely used together)and vinegar to acidify is a very effective cleaning and disinfectant for hard surfaces, and inexpensive. The best results is to use lots of solution applied with a soft bristle brush and or a wash mitt (mechanical cleaning), clean the the areas more than once (repetition improves results) and keep the area wet for 10 to 20 min to effective disinfecting (contact time).
Afterwards, rinse well, let dry and use fans.

Wear your safety glasses and gloves (Safety First)
New glasses are more stylish and provide better protection
Every boat should have them in the tool box
End of safety lecture.... pass the donuts O:)
 
Brent,

Do you have a recipe for that borax and bleach based cleaner? I have not used anything like it, but I expect it would be very effective.

Adding vinegar to any bleach containing solution has the potential to release chlorine gas if overdone. I expect when you do this you must be monitoring with pH paper or something. With borax in the game, there is a powerful buffering agent to reduce the effect of the vinegar, safe as long as the vinegar is added last, and not to excess.
 
The use of bleach or bleaching chemicals in a spray bottle is not a great solution for your safety. Unless you are wearing the appropriate respirator. When you spray bleach in a bottle it becomes airborne and you can breath way to much of the same stuff your trying to use to kill mold off with. :thdown As several have stated, wear gloves and eye protection but even more importantly wear a mask and not the cheap $2.00 version. It goes into your body much quicker via air particulates!
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...=5548558+8690968+3294355808+3294529207&rt=rud
 
Dave

No I dont use borax and prefer a sudsy detergent soap
A 1:1 ratio bleach to borax
I would use one cup of borax, one cup of regular bleach less if using concentrated (8.25%) bleach and a capful of vinegar (very low amount) in 5 gallons of hot water. Acid is optional but increases effective killing with 10-20 minutes contact time

Vinegar increases killing power of bleach ( They used more acid)

American Society for Microbiology
Adding white vinegar to diluted household bleach greatly increases the disinfecting power of the solution, making it strong enough to kill even bacterial spores. Researchers from MicroChem Lab, Inc. in Euless, Texas, report their findings today at the 2006 ASM Biodefense Research Meeting.

Sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl) in the form of laundry bleach is available in most households. The concentrate is about 5.25 to 6 percent NaOCl, and the pH value is about 12. Sodium hypochlorite is stable for many months at this high alkaline pH value.

"Laundry bleach is commonly diluted about 10 to 25-fold with tap water to about 2000 to 5000 parts per million of free available chlorine for use as an environmental surface disinfectant, without regard to the pH value of the diluted bleach. However, the pH value is very important for the antimicrobial effectiveness of bleach," says Norman Miner, a researcher on the study.

At alkaline pH values of about 8.5 or higher, more than 90 percent of the bleach is in the form of the chlorite ion (OCl-), which is relatively ineffective antimicrobially. At acidic pH values of about 6.8 or lower, more than 80 percent of the bleach is in the form of hypochlorite (HOCl). HOCl is about 80 to 200 times more antimicrobial than OCl-.

"Bleach is a much more effective antimicrobial chemical at an acidic pH value than at the alkaline Ph value at which bleach is manufactured and stored. A small amount of household vinegar is sufficient to lower the pH of bleach to an acidic range," says Miner.

Miner and his colleagues compared the ability of alkaline (pH 11) and acidified (pH 6) bleach dilutions to disinfect surfaces contaminated with dried bacterial spores, considered the most resistant to disinfectants of all microbes. The alkaline dilution was practically ineffective, killing all of the spores on only 2.5 percent of the surfaces after 20 minutes. During the same time period the acidified solution killed all of the spores on all of the surfaces.

"Diluted bleach at an alkaline pH is a relatively poor disinfectant, but acidified diluted bleach will virtually kill anything in 10 to 20 minutes," says Miner. "In the event of an emergency involving Bacillus anthracis spores contaminating such environmental surfaces as counter tops, desk and table tops, and floors, for example, virtually every household has a sporicidal sterilant available in the form of diluted, acidified bleach."

Miner recommends first diluting one cup of household bleach in one gallon of water and then adding one cup of white vinegar.
 
Bob, I am using the "Borax" 20 mule team version. It is the laundry "Booster" version. The box had been opened previously, and there is some very mild clumping that beaks down easily when squeezed between thumb and forefinger.

I used a fairly wet application, (done with a washrag or sponge depending on the surface texture), then scrubbed with a brush, then wiped down with a damp (Borax solution) washcloth. Every surface now has a lite whitish dry film, like an oxidation, that comes of easily on anything that touches it. Now to finish the process, I am thinking, just wipe it down again with a dry cloth to remove the surface film and leave well enough alone. OR, another wipe down with vinegar solution.

I would be interested in that recipe too. I'm not too keen on mixing bleach with anything unless I have a pretty specific mix instruction.

Thanks for the help on this. Really appreciated.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
bshillam":3p0jilze said:
The use of bleach or bleaching chemicals in a spray bottle is not a great solution for your safety. Unless you are wearing the appropriate respirator. When you spray bleach in a bottle it becomes airborne and you can breath way to much of the same stuff your trying to use to kill mold off with. :thdown As several have stated, wear gloves and eye protection but even more importantly wear a mask and not the cheap $2.00 version. It goes into your body much quicker via air particulates!
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...=5548558+8690968+3294355808+3294529207&rt=rud

I agree withbshillam

You need to use PPE personal protection equipment
 
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