Greater Range with a VHF

P

Peter & Judy

New member
Last year after the Friday Harbour gathering a group of about 12 C-Dories headed off on a cruise to Princess Louisa Inlet. We broke into sub groups and we were the tail end group, travelling with Colby on C-Travller. During this time we were making contact with some of the other groups via VHF. Often Colby could communicate with them, but we could not. Sometimes we could hear them, but not talk to them while Colby who was near us could. Our question, why might this be and how could we increase the range of our VHF? Colby had a devise to test our antenna and it tested fine. We are in a 22' and Colby was in his 25', so his antenna was slightly higher than ours.

My VHF radio is a Standard Horizon GX2200 which I installed about 5 years earlier with an 8 foot Shakespeare antenna.
 
I had range issues with my radio soon after I acquire my boat, my probleme was the antenna cable was fray at the bend where the cable enter the base. I couldn't find a good way to fix it so I just replace the antenna and that solve my range issues.
 
The cheap Shakespeare antenna less than $100 just has a wire glued into the fiberglass tube. The more expensive Shakespeare more than $100 has a brass element inside the tube. It depends on how well they tuned the antenna and what frequency they tuned it for. My personal experience is Shakespeare is an ok antenna and that is why I don't use them. My preference is the Morad Hot Rod VHF antenna. Everyone of these is hand tuned at the factory. I would mount it on your radar arch on a 1' to 3' extension. Vhf is line of sight so the higher the better. Good connections and good grounds are important and they don't last forever. Even Morad says their antenna is good for about 10 years. Find a Ham and have test the antenna with a analyzer.
 
BBlalock":1sbe6b6j said:
Could you have been on low power?
Benton
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Low power would only effect the transmitting side of the radio. Not the receiver side. The Low setting would only go about a mile where the High setting could go 25 miles with line of sight and good conditions. Your antenna could just be tuned for a different center frequency.
 
One other thing that should be looked at would be your radio, cable and antenna could be perfect and if you just moved the port of starboard a 100 or 200 feet the problem would just go away. If you were sitting right where Colby was It might work just fine. So it could just be atmosphere.
 
Jody gives excellent information as always! I also prefer the Morad antennas, which are tuned. These are commercial grade, used by military and Coast Guard. They also have a mini connector already on the cable so you don't have to solder or crimp the PL259 connector. With Morad, you have to specify the length of cable, and then use their connectors/mount. It is worth the extra cost.

Many of the problems are a bad connector at the PL 259. The Crimp on type that Shakespeare uses corrode with time and tend to not receive or transmit as well. I did a tutorial on soldering the PL259, but is probably not a job for someone who does not have soldering skills.
 
Thank you for all of the advice. I think that I will start with the connector and resolder it. If that doesn't help then I think I will shop around for a better antenna. The original antenna that came with the boat was fairly new and was a digital brand, I think it was better than the Shakespeare. I had to replace it after and unfortunate incident with a bridge. It might have also had a better connection. The one thing I have learned with fixing farm machinery is to start with the easiest and cheapest fix first and work your way up from there.

I'm pulling the boat out of storage after the snow storm that is brewing now is over and I hope to be crossing the Rockies on my way to Vancouver Island in about 10 days. I won't know for sure how well my repairs worked until I get on the water and maybe I can test with some of you when we are at Friday Harbour.

Thanks again.
 
If you can hear them but not talk to them, the other thing to check, is the power output of your radio to see that is at least 15 watts (radios are designed for 25 watts). That was probably checked with the meter you mentioned. If it is low, that can be caused by excessive voltage drop in the power lead going to the radio. You can check that by measuring the voltage as close to the radio as possible on receive and then on transmit. It will drop some during transmit, but should not drop several volts. You'd be surprised how many installations I inspect and fail due to this problem. It's usually caused by corrosion in the power connections somewhere between the battery and the radio.

The other problem that can occur is if the coax going to the antenna has had the outer cover damaged or water has gotten into the cable, usually from cracks in the outer cover or at the connector on the antenna for antennas that have a connector at the antenna end, or sometimes through a leak in the antenna itself. While you'll usually see this problem using the VSWR meter that you mentioned was used, sometimes it only shows up as excessive loss. Also, if there is excessive loss in the cable, the VSWR will be made to look artificially better.
 
Another problem can simply be the xmitter section of your radio. I had a radio fail in that I could hear but not transmit.
 
If you want better odds of extended reliability with it less likely to experience the trouble shooting hassle, that Peter & Judy are experiencing now & willing & able to spend the extra cost & labor for it, then go with the sound advice of Jody & Bob. On the other hand for me, the cheaper 8 foot Shakespeare antenna, that Jody mentioned as just ok with its non soldered standard Shakespeare connections worked fine for 21 years, outlasting two radios, that did quit transmitting. After going through the two cheaper Uniden radios, I upgraded to the Standard Horizon GX 2400 with its NMEA 2000 capability & to the better Shakespeare 8 foot antenna three years ago. Jody tested it for me & it was tuned where it should be from the factory. I have also always had on board one or two hand held VHF radios.

Like many things in life on an individual basis one must choose where to spend time & money for their best return & where it’s worth the gamble to not go top end.

Jay
 
Hunkydory":1edkl7yf said:
...Like many things in life on an individual basis one must choose where to spend time & money for their best return & where it’s worth the gamble to not go top end.

Jay
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Equating "top end" with "most expensive", does not guarantee you are getting the best product (see German cars).
 
ssobol":1nrcpqjq said:
Hunkydory":1nrcpqjq said:
...Like many things in life on an individual basis one must choose where to spend time & money for their best return & where it’s worth the gamble to not go top end.

Jay
Click to expand...

Equating "top end" with "most expensive", does not guarantee you are getting the best product (see German cars).
Click to expand...


Agreed, but top end to me, meaning top researched & quality for the application most often cost more & worth the price if affordable in the budget. Personally, I’m fine with just ok in items similar to Shakespeare vs Morad, but I can see the value in others opting for the Morad over the Shakespeare or the time & cost of specialized tools for crimping or soldering antenna connections.
 
FWIW, my antennas are the Shakespeare 8', and mid range at around $130, I believe. I don't remember exact numbers when I ran the meter on Peter's radio, but power was within specs on both high and low, and the SWR's were in the green (less than 1.5 I believe). I have two radios in my boat, with two antennas. My one radio has always worked best. My secondary radio, even though I replaced it a year or two with a new radio, is still inferior to my main radio. That antenna use to sit about 3' lower, but I raised it last year to the same height as the other, and I'm not sure it improved that radios range. (Mounted on side of roof's high top.) (For either receive or transmit.) Perhaps I just have a very good radio that I use as the main. Perhaps it's the antenna cable length? Both antennas are the same model. Maybe the port side of my boat has a better ground plane... :mrgreen: Sorry Peter, I don't have any advice to offer. Enjoy the boating season this year. I probably won't get west this year, but you and all others are more than welcome to come out to our fresh water Great Lakes! Colby
 
Well I will try to explain my thoughts. Shakespeare 8' low end is $115 and Mid range is $190 they have 2 flaws. 1 the fiberglass tube will get brittle in the sun and break off. 2 where the coax goes into the base of the antenna the sun likes to rot the cable right there and then it will let in water or short. They also have a $330 8' that takes care of both of these problems. The reason I say there OK is there going to work for a while before you have problems and then you just replace them, but you will probably find the problem when your boating and can't fix it right away. The Morad is $225 and $35 for a cable and $45 for an adapter. It is 4-1/2' long made with an aluminum tube and a Heavy Stainless Rod and Nylon caps. It is going to last a whole lot longer than the fiberglass antennas.
All of these have 6db gain. If the cable goes bad you can just put another one on. So in the long run I think the Morad is cheaper. The Morad is tested before it leaves the factory and meets these specs Nominally 1.15: 1 @ 156 MHz (center freq.). 100 Watts max. / 50 Ohms. 100 mph. Every thing is a compromise if you compromise on the antenna you lose distance. If you need to talk 5 miles then probably anything is going to work. If you need maximum distanced then don't go cheap on the antenna.
 
jkidd":3evduh63 said:
Well I will try to explain my thoughts. Shakespeare 8' low end is $115 and Mid range is $190 they have 2 flaws. 1 the fiberglass tube will get brittle in the sun and break off. 2 where the coax goes into the base of the antenna the sun likes to rot the cable right there and then it will let in water or short. They also have a $330 8' that takes care of both of these problems. The reason I say there OK is there going to work for a while before you have problems and then you just replace them, but you will probably find the problem when your boating and can't fix it right away. The Morad is $225 and $35 for a cable and $45 for an adapter. It is 4-1/2' long made with an aluminum tube and a Heavy Stainless Rod and Nylon caps. It is going to last a whole lot longer than the fiberglass antennas.
All of these have 6db gain. If the cable goes bad you can just put another one on. So in the long run I think the Morad is cheaper. The Morad is tested before it leaves the factory and meets these specs Nominally 1.15: 1 @ 156 MHz (center freq.). 100 Watts max. / 50 Ohms. 100 mph. Every thing is a compromise if you compromise on the antenna you lose distance. If you need to talk 5 miles then probably anything is going to work. If you need maximum distanced then don't go cheap on the antenna.
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I don't necessarily disagree with what Jody is saying. I usually don't have to replace my antennas until I hit something with them, and then they break. :roll: Perhaps they wouldn't last much longer than 5 years anyway...which seems to be my "breaking point"... The Morads do have a good reputation. However, I would need to get extenders to get them as high as my current antennas, and height does count! I know from tearing the Shakespear apart, that there is really only about 2' of antenna anyway, and that is taped into the top of the fiberglass whip. I've been pretty happy with my main radio, a SH GX2150 I believe, and that is hooked up to my port antenna. I've replaced the starboard antenna, it's cable, and that radio (currently with the SH GX1600 I believe.) That secondary radio shares the starboard antenna with my AIS transceiver, through an antenna splitter. However, I have also tried hooking that radio up to my port antenna, with no improvement in distance. So I'm once again inclined to believe that I just have a very good GX2150. Both antennas check out within specs on my SWR meter. I do seem to hear from a farther distance than many others, but there are others that can hear farther than me. In the end, I'm satisfied with at least my GX 2150 performance. Colby
 
At times I have taken some of my antenna test gear to check out antennas at West Marine. I found a number were not up to specs--sure they worked, but not optimal. I don't know what testing that "Shakespeare" or "Digital" do but some antennas do slip through that are not optimal. The antenna design is the first issue, then the quality of parts used, and finally the antenna lead and its fittings (the PL 259 which connects to the radio and the quality of the connection.). I can easily cut a coat hanger which will function as an antenna--you can listen and transmit fairly well. But that is not optimal. Jody also brought out the exact location, with magnetic fields, man made interference, and physical blockade to start with.

I put in a graph of Amateur 2 meter antennas,, because I could not conveniently find any marine VHF (Frequency is slightly higher. But you can see variations of the SWR curve, some being not quite as good)

2m_Mobile_Whips_SWR.png
 
Just want to say something about the strength of the Shakespeare antennas. My setup has a 6 foot extension pole. On one occasion my wife was on a dock trying to get the boat tied up in a wind. The antenna was down and lying along the roof. A gust of wind came and she felt the boat was getting away from her. In her haste she grabbed the antenna to pull the boat back (she was going for the roof rail). Anyway she pulled on the antenna and got the boat under control again. Turns out that this action bent the stainless steel antenna mount but did not damage the antenna itself.

Yes, I know this is not the purpose of antennas, but you probably couldn’t do this with your Moran.
 
Yes, I know this is not the purpose of antennas, but you probably couldn’t do this with your Moran.
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Morad antenna:
eup_f252a3b3-618e-4452-8d22-ccd5a5b859aa_2048x2048.jpg

These are mounted on a SS pipe either 2' or 4' (can be more on commercial, LE or Military vessel). These are far stronger than any fiberglass antenna. The cylinder is anodized aluminum and very strong.

One of the reasons I use a SS pipe extension base, is if someone grabs the antenna, it will not be damaged. You could bend the whip, but whips are easily replaced.
 
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