Great American loop preparation advice

[sebastien]

I really appreciate all the feedback I’ve been getting from everyone.
I’ve been trying to reply to each new post but I am loosing track a little bit..
I am spending a couple of weeks on Swans Island in Maine and this is my nightly home work once my hosts retire.

Yes I am familiar with the technique of over drilling, under-cutting and epoxying screw holes with balsa cored construction and
will use the same process fo the actual large hole of the deck pipe.

I’ve been reading the posts about replacing those stupidly installed lazaret covers on the later model boats (mine has the built in kind thankfully)

What I did not know is the nitty gritty of the materials to do this with and
so far I have learned to use west system 105 with 206 or 209 hardeners deeding on season.
I have learned to thicken it with medium density filler for the larger holes like for my deck pipe so it stays in place.
and I have derived the idea that whenever possible it is best to just use a nut and bolt rather than a “wood” screw into the epoxy to prevent cracks etc.

It seems “Dr. bob” from Thataway doesn’t like to seat things with 3M 5200 and likes Boatlife “Lifeseal” better (Both urethanes though).
Maybe Dr. Bob ought to put a "Complete guide to C-dory maintenance and upgrades" book - I would buy it for sure!

SO MUCH TO LEARN! but the C-Brats website makes it feel like a joyful community shared experience rather than feel like a lonely web-research rabbit hole obsession.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! I look forward to getting back to Philly and Pompano (soon to be renamed Kittiwake) and start work.

 

[Micahbigsur@msn.com]

Many of us see 5200 as a glue, the bond so strong some boat decks are glued to the hull with it. 4200 is better if the part may at some time be removed. Practical Sailor has some great testing articles on many different caulks. I like having a deck pipe big enough to reach through in case the chain stacks up high enough to block the windlass.

 

[ssobol]

A 5200 bond can be separated with a heat gun, a razor blade, and a little muscle. The thing about 5200 is that it does not get hard like epoxy does, so it is fairly susceptible to cutting apart.

There are also solvents that cut it.

 

[sebastien]

Yes Micah I am planning on getting a larger oval deck pipe for ease of feeding in and out but didn't think of literally reaching in there sometimes - good point.

I've only ever heard good things about 5200 when used for the right applications.

 

[Micahbigsur@msn.com]

The right applications is the key, I used to use 5200 on almost everything and had a strong distrust of silicone. There are a whole range of different caulks to learn. Polyurethanes are great below the waterline but can degrade a lot of the clear plastics, polysufides are good for bedding and are fuel and oil resistant, silicones are good on the clear plastics, the butyls can be found in a tape form. They all have there place except as I have said before, the cheap latex based caulks.

 

[thataway]

It seems “Dr. bob” from Thataway doesn’t like to seat things with 3M 5200 and likes Boatlife “Lifeseal” better (Both urethanes though).
Maybe Dr. Bob ought to put a "Complete guide to C-dory maintenance and upgrades" book - I would buy it for sure!

I may have not been clear: The Boat Life Life Seal, is a hybrid urethane/special silicone which is good to use for plastics. This is where I advocate life seal. I use 5200, 4200 and 4000 on a regular basis. It depends on how "permanent" I want the installation to be. Yes, 5200 can can be removed. But it can be very adherent--and I have accidentally damaged some fiberglass, ever with Debond agent.

 

[Micahbigsur@msn.com]

Excellent, very clear, and so much simpler and better said than in my post. I would invite anyone interested in sorting out the property's of marine caulks to look through the archived testing articles in Practical Sailor they are also very clear and full of long term performance charts.

I'm glad too see you are up and about online, if I may ask how is your new water heater working out?

 

[sebastien]

Thank you Bob from Thataway and micah from Sierra.

I think this is much clearer to me now. This is what I understand:

3M 5200 is the strongest, and takes a while to set.
3M 4200 is second strongest and sets faster.
3M 4000 is third strongest and sets really fast.
all are paintable urethanes..
all may have negative interactions with certain plastics around the boat.

Boat life Sealife is a hybrid urethane and silicon. It is safer on other plastic materials around the boat.
It is more easily removable without damaging gelcoat but is not paintable (because of the silicone)

I’ve heard great things about INCOM butyl caulking tape for sealing deck hardware.
I like the idea of having a roll around instead of a tube of caulk for emergencies (specially on a tiny boat where space for tools and supplies will be highly limited.
but it sounds like butyl doesn't do much as an adhesive.

please do correct me if I am wrong. thanks

 

[Micahbigsur@msn.com]

Yes that is all correct in addition are the UV resistant versions that have slightly different property's along with the the fast cure versions that can be very different. (Usually less bonding)
Different applications:
Sealants
Bonding
Bedding
All have a different balance in use,.
For example the butyl tapes are weak for bonding fair at sealing good at bedding (distributing load and filling voids) And exelent for ease of use.
So you have to weigh the balance for each use.
It is complicated and confusing sometimes, I reread the property's for any important project before I get into it.
I hope this is somewhat clear and helpful.

 

[ssobol]

The directions say that 5200 can take up to a week to cure. High temps and high humidity speed that up.

 

[captainRCC]

Thank you so much for your help Pat, I remember looking at your blog quite a long time ago when I was still narrowing my boat choices and it got lost in the shuffle of great resources.
I will look through it again now that I am a C-dory owner.

I was planning on using the older GPS that came with the boat as mostly a backup and using an iPad with Navionics and of course the latest edition of skipper bob’s guides but now I will investigate Aquamap with active captain as another option.

Active Captain and Waterway Guide navalert monitored by Bob423

 

[hardee]

sebastien, I just got back from 40 days on my 22 Cruiser, and yes it was in the PNW so sometimes we have deep water here, like 500 to 1,500 feet, BUT you don't anchor in that. I like 5 to 20 feet.

If I may go back to your anchoring questions and decision. I have used a Delta (plow) but switched to a Rocna 6 (13#) (Spade with a hoop) a few years ago. I also have 73 feet of chain, and 150 ft of 1/2" nylon 3ply.

A bit of a physics lesson.
1. The Delta is a PLOW, it is designed to lift and move the opposing substrate to the side so that it can slide through -- Think plowing a field, leaving a furrow. The Rocna is a scoop or spade. It functions by drawing the substrate from the sides toward the center, compacting it and increasing the resistance to forward movement.
2. The chain adds weight, holding the anchor shaft down, parallel to the sea floor. As the boat pulls against the restriction of the anchor, it lifts some of the weight of the chain. Whatever causes the boat to pull against the resistance -- wind wave, or the engine in reverse in the anchor setting process, raises the chain until the pull is relaxed, then the chain weight settles the chain back to the sea floor. That process eliminates the shock load on the windlass and anchor cleat on the bow.

Your choice to go with a 30 pound anchor is a bit overkill, IMHO. I applaud your choice to go up in size, however, you are adding considerable extra bow weight, requiring a stronger back or a bigger windlass, and extra backing on the ground tackle handling devices. In the last 5 years with the Rocna, I have never had it drag. I always try and anchor where I will have about 5 feet of water under me at low tide, and I run out 70 feet of chain. Also, I almost never go out on the foredeck, maybe 3 or 4 times in the last 5 years, because I single hand 98% of the time. Those were very unusual circumstances. With a windlass, it is possible to anchor and retrieve same from the helm, wash the anchor prior to parking it in the launcher all from the helm seat. And yes, the chain goes into the chain locker wet, but it is clean and dries there before the next anchoring.

As to chain length, I'm not saying you need 100 feet, or 70, but I would go with at least double your boat length. That will give you the catenary or slack due to the chain weight. Then, since you are going to be in generally shallow waters you will be fine for moderate weather. If you get into a blow and want more scope you can let out past the chain and take advantage of the nylon stretch for extreme shock relief.

Also, I saw your response to GulfCoast John and his thoughts on doing the loop in segments, by trailering. I enjoyed his reasoning, And Chuck (Two Bears), because I too have thought there are parts of the GL I would love to see, yet I have no desire to spend days on end running in a ditch to get from A - B. I guess for me, that is why I have a trailer boat. To each his own, just use and enjoy.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[ssobol]

...With a windlass, it is possible to anchor and retrieve same from the helm, wash the anchor prior to parking it in the launcher all from the helm seat. And yes, the chain goes into the chain locker wet, but it is clean and dries there before the next anchoring....

How do you wash the anchor remotely?

 

[JamesTXSD]

...With a windlass, it is possible to anchor and retrieve same from the helm, wash the anchor prior to parking it in the launcher all from the helm seat. And yes, the chain goes into the chain locker wet, but it is clean and dries there before the next anchoring....

How do you wash the anchor remotely?

This may not be the "approved" method, but our technique: if the anchor comes up with mud or muck on it, lower it again with the windlass until it is just under the surface, move forward at just making weigh speed, and run the windlass up and down as needed.

 

[DavidM]

...With a windlass, it is possible to anchor and retrieve same from the helm, wash the anchor prior to parking it in the launcher all from the helm seat. And yes, the chain goes into the chain locker wet, but it is clean and dries there before the next anchoring....

How do you wash the anchor remotely?

This may not be the "approved" method, but our technique: if the anchor comes up with mud or muck on it, lower it again with the windlass until it is just under the surface, move forward at just making weigh speed, and run the windlass up and down as needed.

This technique works well if the muck is only on the anchor or the last few feet of chain. Wat happens if it is thick, greasy mud all along the anchor chain?

David

 

[hardee]

...With a windlass, it is possible to anchor and retrieve same from the helm, wash the anchor prior to parking it in the launcher all from the helm seat. And yes, the chain goes into the chain locker wet, but it is clean and dries there before the next anchoring....

How do you wash the anchor remotely?

This may not be the "approved" method, but our technique: if the anchor comes up with mud or muck on it, lower it again with the windlass until it is just under the surface, move forward at just making weigh speed, and run the windlass up and down as needed.

Jim's way would work, but I do the reverse -- sort of. I will lower the anchor until it is just below the surface, then making sure I have room aft, I will then, reverse both engines, at more than just make way speed, bumping up to mid throttle for a few seconds then back to idle. Doing that a couple of times. It puts the anchor in a fair dose of prop wash and usually only takes a couple of "bumps", then run the anchor back up with the windlass, and see if it is clean. If not, do like the shampoo bottle says, wash rinse and repeat.

Reversing keeps the anchor away from the gel coat.

If the chain is coming up muddy, I will let it back down, and then "wobble" the bow back and forth using the twin OB's in one forward, one reverse to swing the chain side to side. (try doing that with a single OB -- that's on another thread

Hope that helps.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[ssobol]

I do those things too. Doesn't get the mud from the bottom of the Chesapeake off very well.. Usually end up with a mud colored front deck if we anchor out in some places. Better on the deck than in the anchor locker though.

I thought there was some device that actually washed the rode like a raw water sprayer or something.

 

[hardee]

".... I thought there was some device that actually washed the rode like a raw water sprayer or something."

I have seen that on a Tomcat 255, (Dreamer - Roger and Janet), but not on any 22's that I know of.

I have seen it work on some pretty sticky mud, but it takes a few tries.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

 

[Sea Wolf]

I do those things too. Doesn't get the mud from the bottom of the Chesapeake off very well.. Usually end up with a mud colored front deck if we anchor out in some places. Better on the deck than in the anchor locker though.

I thought there was some device that actually washed the rode like a raw water sprayer or something.

Bigger boats usually have a high pressure raw water system with an outlet, a hose, and a hand-squeeze operated nozzle on the fore deck along with a pair of foot operated up and down switches for the windlass. These together allow one to raise the rode and anchor intermittently as they are washed off and put away. Nice work if you can get it! :wink:

Check this out:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...095a6b17cf83c2217a2032f6ff4904a7&action=click

Joe. :teeth :thdown

 

[Micahbigsur@msn.com]

We had the anchor washdown on our sailboat, we gave all of that up for our C-dory. We are exploring a whole new world and as a result we are having so much fun. Dana is our official chain and anchor washer. (Long handled deck brush) she is worth her weight in gold.