According to the EPA, the Volt is labeled at 93 MPGe (miles per gallon equivalent) when operating on electricity alone.. This assumes "33.7 kilowatt hours of electricity is equivalent to one gallon of gasoline". If we assume $0.12 per kilowatt hour (close to the national average), the electrical equivalent of a gallon of gas costs 33.7*$0.12 = $4.04 (or about the cost of a gallon of gas). However, one of the advantages of using electricity is that some electrical plants (nuclear or hydro) produce zero emissions and a modern gas, coal or oil powered electrical plant can be designed in a cost effective manner to scrub their emissions per gallon of gas equivalent to lower levels than what we can achieve in vehicles on a cost effective basis (e.g. there's an economy of scale when it comes to scrubbing emissions).
Gas Prices
- Thread starter Tug
- Start date
we traded in a nice landcruiser for a new vw jetta tdi back in 03. 150,000 trouble free miles later, it's safe to say that was a good move, I see no reason why I can't get another 150,000 milles out of it. One thing about the jetta tdi's back then is that most of them where built in Germany while many of the rabbits and gassers where built in mexico, not sure but I think most are built in the US now.
diesel = proven technolgy, no worries about being electrocuted while waiting for properly trained emergency response people to extract you from the burning wreckage + the earth is not obliterated in pursuit of rare earth minerals in which to make batteries out of.....aint much green about batteries
diesel = proven technolgy, no worries about being electrocuted while waiting for properly trained emergency response people to extract you from the burning wreckage + the earth is not obliterated in pursuit of rare earth minerals in which to make batteries out of.....aint much green about batteries
On our road trip we saw regular from a low of $3.13 a gallon, to a high of over $4.50 a gallon on the road. Over $5.00 a gallon on the water was not too uncommon--but we rarely had to buy on the water fuel. At "home" in Pensacola, it is $3.27.9 down the street at our "usual" stations....down about 40 cents a gallon from when we left 6 weeks prior.
1TUBERIDER
New member
I charge the car both at home and at the office. My home bill has increased $20 a month. I hardly notice the difference on the office bill. Roger stated its e rating. It may have cost me $150 in electricity to do what would have been close to $2000 in fuel bills. So it seems I may be doing better than the 93empg.
I am so happy with it because I am not buying fuel for my needed driving. That used to cost around $300 a month. I don't mind buying fuel for my unneeded fuel use, because it is optional. I don't like the price at all, but I have fish to catch, places to see and things to do.
I don't understand how fuel can be over a $1 cheaper in parts of the nation. Makes the oil companies look like opportunists. I see volt sales for May were up.
I wonder why?
I am so happy with it because I am not buying fuel for my needed driving. That used to cost around $300 a month. I don't mind buying fuel for my unneeded fuel use, because it is optional. I don't like the price at all, but I have fish to catch, places to see and things to do.
I don't understand how fuel can be over a $1 cheaper in parts of the nation. Makes the oil companies look like opportunists. I see volt sales for May were up.
I wonder why?
UncleRichie
New member
The price of gas just went down to 4.06 at the indians station chevron is still 4.24
hope it finally starts down.
Richard
hope it finally starts down.
Richard
1TUBERIDER":284zrqks said:
A lot of that $1 difference from location to location can be attributed to differences in state and local taxes. State gasoline taxes vary by as much as $0.43/gallon ($0.47/gallon on diesel). City and county taxes imposed in some locales can add as much as $0.20/gallon more. On top of that there are differences in the cost of dealing with local regulations and the cost of shipping to some locations that are far from refineries. I don't think the oil companies themselves are very responsible for the vast differences in pricing from one location to another.
State taxes range from 8 cents a gallon to 49 cents a gallon, but Washington and Florida are only 2.5 cents a gallon difference. Yet some of the most expensive gas we found was in Washington--and it was over a dollar a gallon difference. Transport also accounts for some of that (we have fuel come by barge from Texas here--same for AL and MS where we found the lowest prices, along the Gulf Coast.
From Bloomberg
Oil prices have fallen sharply in the past two months, with Brent crude sinking to $97 a barrel and West Texas Intermediate hitting $83. The explanation is simple: Since March, the world has been producing more oil than it’s consuming, according to data gathered by the Energy Intelligence Group. Global oil consumption has been declining since the end of 2011, falling to 88.5 million barrels per day at the end of April, from 90.4 million barrels per day in late December 2011. At the same time, world oil production has risen steadily for more than a year, driven by new finds and drilling techniques in North America and a 10 percent increase in production from OPEC during the past 12 months. The last time supply outstripped demand was in 2006.
The U.S. is now sitting on more oil supplies than it has since 1990. And yet our demand for it is at close to a 15-year low—a result of economic weakness and increased energy efficiency. “The amount of oil it takes to move the economy is declining,” says Fadel Gheit, an energy analyst at Oppenheimer.
The price declines have coincided with a steep selloff in oil futures contracts over the last two months. Speculators cut their net-long positions—bets that the price will rise—to the equivalent of 136 million barrels of oil, the lowest level since September 2010, according to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. This follows a huge speculative buying binge. Oil prices spiked from October through March—a six-month bull run fueled by speculative worry over an Iranian supply disruption.
With speculative money pouring out of the oil market, the price is closer to reflecting supply-demand fundamentals. And that means the world’s two most traded oil contracts should continue to fall in price through the summer, analysts say. Religare Capital Markets forecasts that Brent crude, the benchmark for more than half the world’s oil, will fall to $90 a barrel by September, and that West Texas Intermediate should fall to $80.
Since two-thirds of the price of gasoline is determined by the price of oil, that should continue to lower prices at the pump. At the end of May, the average price of a gallon of gasoline in the U.S. was $3.66, 12¢ lower than it was a year ago. That will provide some relief at the pump in time for the summer driving season. Whether that amounts to enough of an economic stimulus for consumers to help lift the economy is much less clear.
We shouild have a lottery for who can guess what gas per gallon will end up costing by the end of the summer.
D.D.
Oil prices have fallen sharply in the past two months, with Brent crude sinking to $97 a barrel and West Texas Intermediate hitting $83. The explanation is simple: Since March, the world has been producing more oil than it’s consuming, according to data gathered by the Energy Intelligence Group. Global oil consumption has been declining since the end of 2011, falling to 88.5 million barrels per day at the end of April, from 90.4 million barrels per day in late December 2011. At the same time, world oil production has risen steadily for more than a year, driven by new finds and drilling techniques in North America and a 10 percent increase in production from OPEC during the past 12 months. The last time supply outstripped demand was in 2006.
The U.S. is now sitting on more oil supplies than it has since 1990. And yet our demand for it is at close to a 15-year low—a result of economic weakness and increased energy efficiency. “The amount of oil it takes to move the economy is declining,” says Fadel Gheit, an energy analyst at Oppenheimer.
The price declines have coincided with a steep selloff in oil futures contracts over the last two months. Speculators cut their net-long positions—bets that the price will rise—to the equivalent of 136 million barrels of oil, the lowest level since September 2010, according to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. This follows a huge speculative buying binge. Oil prices spiked from October through March—a six-month bull run fueled by speculative worry over an Iranian supply disruption.
With speculative money pouring out of the oil market, the price is closer to reflecting supply-demand fundamentals. And that means the world’s two most traded oil contracts should continue to fall in price through the summer, analysts say. Religare Capital Markets forecasts that Brent crude, the benchmark for more than half the world’s oil, will fall to $90 a barrel by September, and that West Texas Intermediate should fall to $80.
Since two-thirds of the price of gasoline is determined by the price of oil, that should continue to lower prices at the pump. At the end of May, the average price of a gallon of gasoline in the U.S. was $3.66, 12¢ lower than it was a year ago. That will provide some relief at the pump in time for the summer driving season. Whether that amounts to enough of an economic stimulus for consumers to help lift the economy is much less clear.
We shouild have a lottery for who can guess what gas per gallon will end up costing by the end of the summer.
D.D.
Walking back from the office to the boat yesterday, I came across the guy delivering fuel to the marina. I asked, "So, will the price of this be higher or lower?"
He said, "Well, our price to them is lower, but ..."
That long delay said plenty. The listed price per gallon was the same when I walked by later that day ($5.06/gallon). Having been here three weeks now, I've seen the price fluctuate by 5¢ per gallon, but is now back at the highest price.
I know the discussion: It's an island. Everything has to be brought here by boat. Fuel comes in on a truck on a boat. I get it.
When the price of oil goes up, it is immediately reflected at the pump because, "The next load of fuel is going to cost more." When the price of oil goes down, you don't see much (if any) movement at the pump because, "We paid more for the fuel that is in the storage tank."
Gotcha!
The Dow is down over 1,000 points in the past 5 weeks (May 1: 13,279 - June 5 currently: 12,111) The futures of crude is at it's lowest level since January 2011. Anyone here currently paying at the pump what they paid a year and a half ago? (National average in Jan 2011 was $3.07 for unleaded, $3.33 for diesel).
That Chevy Volt is looking better.
He said, "Well, our price to them is lower, but ..."
That long delay said plenty. The listed price per gallon was the same when I walked by later that day ($5.06/gallon). Having been here three weeks now, I've seen the price fluctuate by 5¢ per gallon, but is now back at the highest price.
I know the discussion: It's an island. Everything has to be brought here by boat. Fuel comes in on a truck on a boat. I get it.
When the price of oil goes up, it is immediately reflected at the pump because, "The next load of fuel is going to cost more." When the price of oil goes down, you don't see much (if any) movement at the pump because, "We paid more for the fuel that is in the storage tank."
Gotcha!
The Dow is down over 1,000 points in the past 5 weeks (May 1: 13,279 - June 5 currently: 12,111) The futures of crude is at it's lowest level since January 2011. Anyone here currently paying at the pump what they paid a year and a half ago? (National average in Jan 2011 was $3.07 for unleaded, $3.33 for diesel).
That Chevy Volt is looking better.
I am going to believe comments about electric cars when I see also the user's electric bills before and after purchase and also considering the amortization of the intial and "other" running costs over an average lifetime.
Anyone want to bet about electricity prices when electric cars become "popular" :roll:
When are they going to make a 350HP electric truck that I can tow a boat with? Price ???
M
Anyone want to bet about electricity prices when electric cars become "popular" :roll:
When are they going to make a 350HP electric truck that I can tow a boat with? Price ???
M
Jack in Alaska
New member
Fuel prices dropping here in Ninilchik, Alaska...........
Gas is $4.58 and diesel is $4.83 today. Makes one want to park the truck and throttle back on the CD.
Gas is $4.58 and diesel is $4.83 today. Makes one want to park the truck and throttle back on the CD.
Hey Grumpy,
I was really surprised a few months ago when our local Staples delivery showed up in an ALL ELECTRIC truck! Here's an article about them that I googled (parts of the article cut out to shorten), here's the link also:
http://www.worktruckonline.com/Channel/ ... rucks.aspx
Last November, office supply giant Staples, Inc., of Framingham, Mass., added 41 new all-electric Class 6 Smith Newton delivery trucks to its fleet of 2,000 vehicles in North America.
The purchase is part of Staples' ongoing fuel-efficiency initiative, started in 2006, to achieve a 40-percent improvement in fleet fuel economy by 2015 and significantly reduce its carbon footprint.
Manufactured by Smith Electric Vehicles, based in Kansas City, Mo., the Newton all-electric medium-duty chassis offers a range up to 100 miles, top speed of 50 mph, and a payload capacity up to 16,000 lbs., ideal for short-range urban delivery applications that demand heavy stop-and-go driving.
180 of our routes operate between 35-70 miles per day. That's why electric vehicles are perfect for the L.A. market, as well as many other inner city metropolitan-type markets. ...making 50-60 deliveries per day.
When you factor available federal and state funds, the cost of these electric trucks is roughly two times the cost of a conventional-powered diesel truck.
WT: How long do you anticipate it will take for you to recoup that investment?
PAYETTE: Understand that over the life of the vehicle, the equation in place today will change. Fuel prices will change; the electric rate I'm paying is likely to change. However, if you use today's numbers, here's what you're looking at:
If you're going to run a diesel truck on a 100-mile route at 10 miles per gallon, that's roughly $35 in diesel fuel to cover the route. In California, by charging electric trucks during off-peak hours, we're paying $9 in electricity to run the same 100-mile route. So that's about $8,900 per year for fuel and $2,300 in electricity.
Since we plan to keep these units in service at least 10 years, the overall differential is $66,000 per truck - if fuel remained $3.50 per gallon or $0.10-$0.12 per kilowatt hour. That alone offsets the incremental cost of the electric vehicle over 10 years without even talking maintenance.
Dora~Jean:
So there you have it, an electric, short-range tow vehicle! But you also have to add those "other" costs, like replacing the battery bank(s) every 5-10 years. The standard Prius pretty much maintains the battery bank at or near full charge, and generally don't need replacement for 8-10 yrs or so from what I've read ($3000-6000?). However, the Chevy Volt depletes/recharges every usage overnight. I wonder if that requires the Chevy's batteries to be replaced more often? And how much are their batteries?
I was really surprised a few months ago when our local Staples delivery showed up in an ALL ELECTRIC truck! Here's an article about them that I googled (parts of the article cut out to shorten), here's the link also:
http://www.worktruckonline.com/Channel/ ... rucks.aspx
Last November, office supply giant Staples, Inc., of Framingham, Mass., added 41 new all-electric Class 6 Smith Newton delivery trucks to its fleet of 2,000 vehicles in North America.
The purchase is part of Staples' ongoing fuel-efficiency initiative, started in 2006, to achieve a 40-percent improvement in fleet fuel economy by 2015 and significantly reduce its carbon footprint.
Manufactured by Smith Electric Vehicles, based in Kansas City, Mo., the Newton all-electric medium-duty chassis offers a range up to 100 miles, top speed of 50 mph, and a payload capacity up to 16,000 lbs., ideal for short-range urban delivery applications that demand heavy stop-and-go driving.
180 of our routes operate between 35-70 miles per day. That's why electric vehicles are perfect for the L.A. market, as well as many other inner city metropolitan-type markets. ...making 50-60 deliveries per day.
When you factor available federal and state funds, the cost of these electric trucks is roughly two times the cost of a conventional-powered diesel truck.
WT: How long do you anticipate it will take for you to recoup that investment?
PAYETTE: Understand that over the life of the vehicle, the equation in place today will change. Fuel prices will change; the electric rate I'm paying is likely to change. However, if you use today's numbers, here's what you're looking at:
If you're going to run a diesel truck on a 100-mile route at 10 miles per gallon, that's roughly $35 in diesel fuel to cover the route. In California, by charging electric trucks during off-peak hours, we're paying $9 in electricity to run the same 100-mile route. So that's about $8,900 per year for fuel and $2,300 in electricity.
Since we plan to keep these units in service at least 10 years, the overall differential is $66,000 per truck - if fuel remained $3.50 per gallon or $0.10-$0.12 per kilowatt hour. That alone offsets the incremental cost of the electric vehicle over 10 years without even talking maintenance.
Dora~Jean:
So there you have it, an electric, short-range tow vehicle! But you also have to add those "other" costs, like replacing the battery bank(s) every 5-10 years. The standard Prius pretty much maintains the battery bank at or near full charge, and generally don't need replacement for 8-10 yrs or so from what I've read ($3000-6000?). However, the Chevy Volt depletes/recharges every usage overnight. I wonder if that requires the Chevy's batteries to be replaced more often? And how much are their batteries?
1TUBERIDER
New member
Will-C":3pqwyxa1 said:
Where? There is already over a $1.00 difference everywhere now.
Whatever the national average is we will be above it by .50.
The volt battery has an 8 year 100000 mile warranty. Replacement cost today installed is around 3k. Projections are that the battery may last 15 years. I bet this is one of the technology's that the product will become smaller, more powerful and less expensive. The car is predicted to be a million mile car.
Steve,
Interesting article but as it also points out, not much good for 100 miles at 55 mph which is one of the plus points about a trailerable boat.
I have no doubt there will be further great advances in battery and drive system technologies but they will have to achieve massive production numbers before prices rival current diesel and gas engined solutions.
Also, the amount of energy required to move a boat. car or truck a certain distance is not going to change so if we all start using electricity we will not have enough generating stations to produce it and more will have to be built at high cost. Then, what are we going to drive the generating systems with ?? Natural gas ? Gas? Oil ? Coal ? Nuclear ?
Anyway you look at it there would need to be a massive spend on infrastructure which would be reflected in the price of the product.. electricity.
Wearing my Grumpy hat, I am willing to bet that our financial geniuses will find a way to make all this more expensive than what we have today.
Which all says to me that I had better get out and enjoy spending it today
:cake :beer :cigar
Merv
Interesting article but as it also points out, not much good for 100 miles at 55 mph which is one of the plus points about a trailerable boat.
I have no doubt there will be further great advances in battery and drive system technologies but they will have to achieve massive production numbers before prices rival current diesel and gas engined solutions.
Also, the amount of energy required to move a boat. car or truck a certain distance is not going to change so if we all start using electricity we will not have enough generating stations to produce it and more will have to be built at high cost. Then, what are we going to drive the generating systems with ?? Natural gas ? Gas? Oil ? Coal ? Nuclear ?
Anyway you look at it there would need to be a massive spend on infrastructure which would be reflected in the price of the product.. electricity.
Wearing my Grumpy hat, I am willing to bet that our financial geniuses will find a way to make all this more expensive than what we have today.
Which all says to me that I had better get out and enjoy spending it today
:cake :beer :cigar Merv
Can you imagine the parking meters with options for battery charging with power plugs. Instead of parking spaces they could call them trancient slips with sure power. Now I wonder if all the new electric cars have chargers have the same plugs? Instead of a propane tank swap you could get a charged up battery swap from AAA. Maybe propane is a better way to go. It would be a real bummer to have to wait another couple hours at the store for the recharge your batts to make it back home. :shock:
D.D.
D.D.
D.D.
Even on little old Whidbey Island we have a newly built complex with parking slots with meters for electric cars. (Usually occupied by big smelly diesel trucks
)
I think I will start locking up all my outside outlets on the house
Anyone got an extension cord that fits street lamps....
M
Even on little old Whidbey Island we have a newly built complex with parking slots with meters for electric cars. (Usually occupied by big smelly diesel trucks
)I think I will start locking up all my outside outlets on the house
Anyone got an extension cord that fits street lamps....
M