From E.Q. - Possible status change

Scot Reynolds":2vcsgntf said:
Hello Everyone,

I have been trying to get the C-Dory website back up ever since it went down yesterday. Our Internet Service Provider has stated that due to technical difficulties, many of its customers are experiencing the same problem. Obviously this is a concern to us and we will continue to work on getting it resolved until it is back up.

I have been following this thread with sincere interest, as I do with many topics that appear here. Thanks to all of you for your comments and suggestions. My family and I are spending the holiday weekend in Gig Harbor. I look forward to more feedback and providing more information about our efforts as they relate to quality when I get back to the office next week.

Have a nice Labor Day weekend!

Thanks,

Scot Reynolds

Scot

You need a new ISP, IMHO
What problems are they having?
I noticed the C-dory site has a Vdeck ad. Are they your ISP?

If I can help, let me know. I use Lunarpages and they have 24/7 tech support. Even if a server went down, it should only take a couple of hours to rebuild. Maybe they were hosting dirt bags and was banned.
 
Here is the whois results. Your ISP is startlogic.
Support is http://support.startlogic.com/support.html and 24/7 support. Interesting the database was updated today (9/3)


Registrant:
C-Dory Inc.
ATTN: C-DORY.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA 20172-0447

Domain Name: C-DORY.COM

Administrative Contact :
Lumley, Ted
sk9kb8d35z6@networksolutionsprivateregistration.com
ATTN: C-DORY.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA 20172-0447
Phone: 570-708-8780

Technical Contact :
Britt, Kelly **
jb7f73922u5@networksolutionsprivateregistration.com
ATTN: C-DORY.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA 20172-0447
Phone: 570-708-8780

Record expires on 12-Aug-2011
Record created on 13-Aug-1997
Database last updated on 03-Sep-2007

Domain servers in listed order: Manage DNS

NS1.STARTLOGIC.COM 216.207.124.77
NS2.STARTLOGIC.COM 66.235.217.210

This listing is a Network Solutions Private Registration. Mail correspondenc
 
Seems like every time I take off for a few days, the fun begins around here...

I've only a few minutes to respond to all the excitement posted in this thread, but I have read all the replies. My brief 2 c's:

- The only negative aspect of this thread I see, are the personal insults being tossed at Tom Latham. Call it what you wish, but describing the situation as the "Lathamization" of C-Dory, while casting the recent company decisions in a bad light, is simply bad taste. It's beneath us as a group - we simply have better taste and class than that. I'm glad somebody pointed this out already - here's to hoping we can refrain to stooping to such personal attacks as this situation progresses. Complain about the company, critique their decisions, but please try and do so in a manner that maintains a civil and mature image.

- The EQ situation. Boy...I could write pages on this, but it's all been said. Many of C-Dory's recent business decisions are open to debate, but dropping EQ is not. There's simply no valid business reason for doing so; he's a model dealer, and if he only sold 2 C-Dory's a year, C-Dory should feel privileged to have him representing their line.

Anyway, back to vacation...carry on, C-Brat pals. :mrgreen:
 
I agree with Bill's remarks, although Pat has been quite clear that his was merely a poor choice of words rather than personal in any way whatsoever. Knowing Pat, I know he is sincere.

Perhaps De-Messmerization would be more to the point.
 
I'd prefer to leave people's names out it entirely - Baylinerization is OK

I also know Pat and know him to be sincere, a nice guy etc. I just think of how I'd feel if my name was attached to the negative changes in the company and I don't think Pat meant it to be a slam on Tom - it just kinda feels that way.. IMHO, many of the changes that I dislike started a year before Tom joined and Jeff left. Also, while I really like Jeff and don't really know Tom, personnel decisions are always tough and we can't pretend to know what goes on inside the company in this regard. What we CAN comment on is what we do know as customers and boat owners.

I have no problem saying I miss the factory service, that I miss the ability to get the boat customized, that I miss the previous can do attitude of most at the company, that I miss the more frequent contact that factory had with this site (I think that was Jeff's doing), that I think the 29 is ugly and that I think Les is a great dealer (even though I've never bought a boat from him). These are things of which I'm sure and I'd just as soon keep the discussion on the aspects of the boats and service that we like/dislike and away from the personalties and personnel decisions of the CD management.
 
Thanks for the vote of confidence guys! I basically mean what I say, good taste or bad! I have said that I think all their decisions since they moved to Auburn have been bad for their customers, which is ultimately bad for the company. Business 101. Scot will have to sort it out - "Lathamization" or "De-Messmerization," whatever! SOMEBODY is the architect, SOMEBODY is the hatchet-man, of this self-destructive pattern at C-Dory Marine. Does ANYBODY think the trend is GOOD???? Is ANYBODY there going to wake up and smell the coffee????
 
I never owned a Harley, but I have a friend who has, for a long time and many of them. I know HD went through some rough times and now they are present, strong and respected. They are a niche machine in a world market. Maybe C-Dory isn’t there yet. Maybe they will never be there. But HD paid attention to their consumers, and that saved them from certain destruction, that and a few of the diehards who grabbed the company and pulled it up by its boot straps. Hopefully, C-Dory Marine is doing that now. I was glad to see Scott’s message posted here, and will be looking forward to further input from him and others with the official CD stance. This site is a valuable tool for C-Dory Marine, and an incredible opportunity for them to dialog with the folks who not only know about their product, but care about it and its future as well.

So, again, Best to Les, (he’s the best), Thanks to all for having and expressing opinions, even though they may not be the same as some one else’s, and Thanks to Scott for checking in. Now let’s see if the outcome will make everyone happy. The 80/20 business rule is still a sound practice, and quality never goes out of style.

Good night to all,

Harvey
Sleepy C :moon
 
As species develop within an ecosystem, there is often a 'co-evolution' that takes place. Several species evolve together, and their lifestyles become so intertwined it becomes hard to imagine one without the other.

This may describe C-Dory/C-Brat community. The C-Dory that 'was' led to the eventual development of a group of like-minded owners, which led to the development of the C-Brat web site. This in turn led to the recruitment of even more like-minded individuals (like myself), who buy into the C-Dory concept largely because of the boat itself, but ALSO, and maybe just as importantly, because of the group dynamic with the C-Brat site, and between the C-Brats and the factory.

So here we are, Or were, about a year or so ago. Evolution never stands still, so there is no reason to believe that the C-Dory boat, the C-Dory factory, or the C-Brat community will continue unchanged.

For example, the C-D 29 has by no means been met with open arms by members of this group. However, maybe by definition, the members of this site are not the likely buyers of this new design, for precisely the reasons that they are likely buyers of CD-16's, 19's, 22's, and 25's. They are different designs. If the factory envisioned this boat as a possible stepping stone for current owners, recent comments suggest they may have guessed wrong. As noted, they had ample opportunity to ask the current owners about this in advance, but for whatever reasons, chose not to. OTOH, if they envision this boat as another entry point, for another market segment, then perhaps C-Brat input would not be very helpful. (I don't necessarily believe this course of action was wise, but I'm not running the company, and don't yet understand where they are going with all this.)

Back to the core business, however. It seems that the mindset of the typical CD owner, and the current CD design, and the business practices of EQ Marine have evolved very closely together. Les (I'm guessing) likes working with the types of people that are inclined to buy C-Dories. As a result, he enjoys the close personal interaction, and the time spent advising customers on the right rigging for their optimal usage. He has all the skills required to take the boat from the factory floor, tune it up, add the options, advise the buyer, service the deal, and so on. With this mindset, it is likely (my opinion) that such a dealer would receive much less satisfaction selling cookie-cutter products. From the other side of the counter, it is quite clear from this thread that the C-Brat community holds this unique set of skills in very high esteem, and the (current) C-Brat community does not necessarily want to buy cookie-cutter products, either.

As stated by others above, good will and reputation can be earned over time, and can be destroyed surprisingly quickly; they cannot be bought at any price. And Wefings points out -- market research like this cannot be obtained at any price either. Therefore, these are not trivial issues facing C-Dory, E.Q., or C-Brats.

The future of C-Dory might (?) already have evolved to the point where it MUST sell cookie-cutter products, in higher volume. My intuition tells me, however, that if this happens, the enthusiasm of current C-Brats for future C-Dories is likely to change considerably. Rather than telling people at the gas station, or the camp ground, or the boat launch, to visit the C-Dory factory site, they may well be pointing them in the future toward the C-Brat Marketplace for used boats.

I may be describing a rock and a hard place here for the factory, but can a new high-volume marketing strategy increase sales so much that they compensate for the lost sales that occur due to the loss of good will of the current C-Brat community? Or the members of the community that go to Les, or dealers like Les, and buy boats OTHER than C-Dory's (for all the reasons mentioned above? These issues may (?) not matter to that 'other' market segment out there. (IF that 'other' market segment indeed exists . . . )

The next year or so will be interesting . . .

Personally, when the $$ fall into place, I'll probably look for an older CD. I realize I may have to update, and maintain various systems. I may want to replace ferrous corner clamps with fiberglass tabs, as Dr. Bob suggests. but I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a new boat with screws into the core w/o proper epoxy, when this very issue has been discussed DOZENS of times on this website, and still is not fixed (or even acknowledged?!) by the factory.

When I work with a dealer (such as Les, or others), I'd like our efforts to be directed toward power options, radar arches, chart plotters, and trim tabs. NOT leaking shower fittings, poorly glassed transoms, improperly installed tanks . . . . . . . With a few minor exceptions, I expect the dealer to augment the product that comes from the factory, not spend their time fixing the factory's care-less shortcomings and mistakes.

The 'evolution' continues.

The next year or so will be interesting . . .

Given E.Q.'s standing within the C-Dory / C-Brat community, ending this dealer relationship would make me veeery nervous if I were a FaC-Dory guy. Then again, how would I know? I'm a scientist, not a businessman.

iggy

 
Perhaps some new thinking in dealership participation would allow small several small shops to operate in the territory of some of the big players type dealers. That way, prospective buyers could select the type of experience they prefer.

Tom Peters, business advisor and ghuru, wrote a fun book over a decade ago called "The Persuit of Wow" in which he abandoned his years of big corporation, Japanese style, mass market philosophy.

It's a cheap paperback, a fun read, and aptly describes this situatioin: Why is it that you have a multi-million dollar, luxurious, mega-reastaurant sitting almost empty in the nice part of town while people are lining up around the block to buy their lunch in a rundown neighborhood, mom and pop restaurant? (not implying that EQ is in a run down area!!!!)

It's the experience. He says most of us are not in the business we think we are in. e.g., a Dentist like me may think he's in the business of fixing teeth and allaying pain, but the reality is that his customers support him because of the relationship and the experiences. A restaurant is really not in the business of serving food in that, they could have the finest, cheapest meals in town and go under if they failed to provide the expected customer relationships and experiences. JamesTX has probably built his business and retirement on this principle - he walks the talk anyway.

So, if C-Dory would read this book and realize that the customer experience, quirks, fun, problems and no-stress fixes ( yes problems do not disappear, but the anticipation and handling of them is the EXPERIENCE that the cusomers are buying). For example #1 "I bought a new boat from XYZ dealer and no problems arose" vs. Example #2, "I bought a new boat from XYZ, had ten problems, but XYZ was right there, ready to fix them without my having to argue..." So having problems in itself does not kill the relationship. Of course, minimal problems is good..,


The factory open houses are oriented this way, the factory and dealer posts provide this, and so on...

And, the attachment to this site and the wonderfully varied participants is a major part of the C-Dory experience! We're... um... well , some of you are a major part of the experience people seek when they purchase a C-Dory!

John
 
Rather than telling people at the gas station, or the camp ground, or the boat launch, to visit the C-Dory factory site, they may well be pointing them in the future toward the C-Brat Marketplace for used boats.

The above really hits home with me and is exactly what will happen in my case, since I get many inquiries as I'm sure others do too. So far, from what I have received, the 22CD is still pretty darn good (at least people aren't slamming it). The others: when they have problems, man do they have problems . . . That said, the problems they do have are very few in relation to how many are manufactured (or people don't say anything about them). There is also this to consider (and I do) as well: some will complain no matter what, and will be most unreasonable for reasons that may have nothing to do with the boat. Others (like me) would rebuild the boat over and over without a single complaint as long as the design meets their needs. You really won't get an accurate picture from either end of this spectrum of people - the answer is in the middle (you have to take into account the numbers of boats being produced vs number of complaints).

I hope they get things sorted out and I can continue to help people like the below be introduced to all the adventures you can have on a C-Dory.

Sent: September 04, 2007

Subject: Re: Re: C-Dory 22'
Message:

After further review of the c-dory, it will surely be my next boat. In fact, I just put my bowrider for sale, the c-dory dealer in florida quoted me $48k drive out on a model he had there, I may be just a lowly drafter...but my money will be going into this boat even if its a high price tag. The major fuel economy I will be getting compared to the crappy 2mpg in the trophy will be enough reason for me to get this boat.

Quick question...do the two seats with the flip up table...fold down to make a little lounge bed?
 
iggy":3e4lvwbq said:
Rather than telling people at the gas station, or the camp ground, or the boat launch, to visit the C-Dory factory site, they may well be pointing them in the future toward the C-Brat Marketplace for used boats.

I have some friends that are somewhat interested in a CD-25 style boat,
but until what happened with Bob's boat has been understood, and the
scope of the problem documented, I'm not going to suggest to anyone that they buy a CD-25, used or not. Unless the owner doesn't mind you trying to rip the deck up to see if it is held on with bondo.

And the recent complaints about CD-22 gunnels being flexible? What's
up with that? An old style CD-22 does not have flexible gunnels. And with
a flat bottom hull, it had better well not!

Mike
 
And the recent complaints about CD-22 gunnels being flexible?

Where is that conversation at? I would hope they are talking about those strips below the gunnel that hide the wiring to the transom and make up the catch all bins.
 
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