From E.Q. - Possible status change

Human nature being what it is, no one wants to be ignored. I think the owners here have felt a bit ignored since Jeff left C-Dory. Granted, you factory folks are working hard to build great boats. Please understand that they are also OUR boats. Every owner had to part with hard-earned money to buy these boats. And to us, they are more than fiberglass, metal, and motors - they are our dreams and hopes. And when these "dreams" turn out to be less than perfect (and they were built by humans, afterall), we want to know that someone cares.

For some time now, the perception has been that no one at the factory cares. We can debate this, but I don't think I'm alone in stating that this is the perception. We welcome your participation here, Scott. We know you are busy and appreciate any effort someone at the factory can make to stay in touch.

Speaking only for myself, I appreciate the efforts the factory is taking to improve and ensure the QC on our beloved boats. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Best wishes,
Jim Bathurst
Wild Blue, CD-25
 
Jim,

I agree. I am pleased to see Scott's reply but "ignored" for many months would be my perception too. As I wrote early in the day in a PM to Pat -

" I think the important thing is that CD seems to have eliminated all (most - added on edit to be fair) sources of customer interaction without replacing them in anyway. For example, as they ramp up production it makes a lot of sense to have one person who constantly monitors AND INTERACTS with this site. It's great advertising and a real relationship with the folks here would provide a wealth of knowledge to the factory AND prevent bad PR from getting too far out of hand. The same person could go to all the gatherings, run around and visit dealers etc. Even when Jeff was there, he had to split his time between many activities (although he did a much better job at customer relations than anyone since). The fact that this thread (and many others) went on (go on) SO LONG with no comment/interaction from the factory makes one assume that they don't care. When similar problems show up on boat after boat, that assumption is confirmed. "

Since Jeff left, the participation on the C-Brats site has gone down, the production has gone up and most of the concerns raised here went unanswered/responded to by the factory. While I realize they are busy guys, my sense is that this site does more to sell boats than most of the advertising the factory pays for. Hence, if I was Scott, I'd not only monitor it closely, I'd pay someone to INTERACT as often as possible. Just my two cents worth.
 
Sealife":hgv0m191 said:
Happened to stumble on the fact that E.Q. has just become the sole west coast dealer for Rosborough Boats. Could this be a factor in the dispute?
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I have no knowlege of a connection between the Rosborough and C-Dory (there may well be one), but my understanding is that it had nothing to do with C-Dory and that Les picked up the Rosborough line when he got tired of waiting for the Ranger folks to finish engineering the R-25 powerplant to meet its previouly-advertised speed claims and actually deliver boats. I know because I was trying for the longest time to decide between the R-25 and the TC. I have always liked the Rosboroughs and if that option had also been available to me at the time (from local dealers) it definitely would have been a three-way fight for my bucks.

I hope it would have ended up the same way because I am very happy with my Tom Cat. And I've had no problems with it (knock on FG).

Warren
 
Scot,
I too, applaud you in your efforts to improve the working environment for your employees and I know from personal experience some of the issues you deal with there, ( health insurance, and other benefits that you provide to attract and keep good employees.) Those are factors that improve working relations and help to build pride in ownership at your facility. When the employees take ownership in the company, the QC concerns are often addressed by them, assuming they are knowledgable in the product and not just in the process. I can't help but think that a boat manufacturing technician would have wondered at the process of installing ferrous L brackets and screws into cored hull (or other) surfaces, if either they were knowledgable about boating practices or had pride of ownership in the final product. Those maneuvers had to come from somewhere in cost cutting efforts. As for me, I'd rather pay for having something done right, if I can't do it, and know that the floor of my boat is not going to rot out, than find out 5 years down the road that all the screws in the floor are coming out and I have to have the whole interior redone because somebody skipped a few steps and got by with 15 min less time on that job. It's going to take me alot longer than 15min to go back later and do it right.

Moving on: It is good to see your posts and participation here, and to hear you are out in the PNW waters. Welcome, and hope to see you. I'll be monitoring 16 and 68 and would consider it a privilege to make contact, with you and any of the C-Dory fleet.

And Further: This thread was started by Les of EQ because of some falling out between EQ and CD, and he was: 1. Advising C-Brats of a possible status change, and 2. Looking for positive support. It seems that issue has been well addressed here.

And Last(for now): It is good to see your participation here. I agree that it is needed and has been nonevident for sometime in the past. Expressed care and concern, followed by active participation in real problem solving will go a long way in making questioning consumers into Number One supporters. We all put hard earned $$$ into well loved boats, and are proud of them. If things continue well, then it is easy to recommend them, and the folks who provide them.

Looking forward, to many happy years on a really great boat, and seeing many more to come,

Harvey
Sleepy C :moon

With a wink :wink and a wave and a sleepy smile :) , The Sleepy C :moon folks are going boatin' in style :thup :thup
 
Since this topic started about Les, the factory needs to know that *potential* buyers have heard of Les. Potential buyers are willing to wait for their boat from Les. I don't care if it takes me a year to get my boat. Dropping that kind of chump change, I don't WANT to find out something was screwed to the core and should not be. And I don't know any better so I'd learn it from C-Brats. There's alot of potential buyers lurking here.

But Les stopped being the dealer for the Tomcat, right about the time we decided a Tomcat was more suited to what we wanted to do than a CD25. Now the same company I bought my Glastron from is the Tomcat dealer. I'm sorry. The patience I felt talking to Les is not there. The dealer seems to reflect the Genmar attitude of moving product. They don't even have a Tomcat in their lot. They don't even have waterfront property to take me for a ride. An attempt at idle chit-chat about the Tomcat while my cheap boat was being serviced was cool and short. Les chewed my ear off 2 years ago and gave me answers I didn't know I needed to know. Les came to talk to us when we were just sitting around while everyone else seemed interested in those that appeared to be more of a potential "right now" buyer than us. I am not intending to shed bad light here at all. This is my experience and I'm a sensitive person so I most likely and just over reacting because, honestly, I'd rather buy it from Les based on my experience and the experience of others here.

Since the post has then gone to other topics I will say also....
Rich and I spoke at the boat show for a long time. I was honest with the reality that the price had moved us out of the market for the time being so we settled on a nice lake boat. I applaud the changes given the information it allows the factory to provide health care. I don't mind the prices if I know I'm getting a quality product; which is why we chose a Genmar boat over a Brunswick boat (nothing wrong with the other but there was a definate difference). More so if the change in price allows the retention of good employees. I was happy to see a factory response here, that has hardened my confidence I'm getting something unique and it justifies the price. But going forward it also places the product closer to the competition. And it has opened our eyes to other products given the human reaction to "what's a few more dollars overall to get some better fit and finish" which is exactly why we did not go with the least expensive lake boat available in the first place. I do not think the factory is ignoring this site. I do think these issues are normal for a growing company, and I do think the factory is handling it in a supreme fashion for such a growing company. But hitting a speed bump you did not see makes you more cautious the next time you drive that road; and maybe you'll try a longer path without the speed bumps next time.

Again my intention is not to be negative here. But I also had to say something since I have watched things and drooled over C-Dory for 2 years now, and felt the need to express these things as a person on the sidelines wanting to race with the big boys. And in reality there were no other manufacturers we stopped at that had the company president wandering around talking with folk, which was a huge plus in our book.
 
I purchased my 22 cruiser from Cutter Marine outside Baltimore, MD. They were GREAT to deal with. From start to finish the whole buying/selling process was perfect. This was my first boat purchase and it was a pleasure to do business with them. I was just informed that they are no longer handling the C-Dory line.

I am in the market for a new 25' C-Dory, and so far all my dealings with the new dealer here in NJ have been like dealing with a used car salesperson. I telephoned C-Dory and told them I will not deal with a company like that. No customer service skills at all!

I am afraid that this is what happened to Cutter Marine. They are the reason I purchased a C-Dory. I love my boat, but I have some doubts about the C-Dory management team.
 
If I recall correctly, there are several hundred boat dealers along the Jersey shore within a few miles of South Amboy and Matawan. That one would travel to Baltimore, MD and then praise both the boat and the dealer is telling. When I was in the ambulance business (we owned 15 of them at one time) Dotty and I went on calls every day. We learned that one person can't lift any more than half the stretcher, no matter how big and strong. So our motto was "one, two, three, lift".
 
Wonder whose decision it was for Cutter not to carry C-Dory any more? The only time I met any of them was at the first Ches Bay Gathering in 2005 when both Jeff Messmer and the owner of Cutter was there. He (the owner) told me that he was unhappy with C-Dory because they wouldn't give him enough boats to sell.... Maybe that was ultimately the decision maker? We need a good dealer on the Chesapeake Bay!

I see where Sail Annapolis is carrying them now, anyone have any G2 on them?
 
I visited SailAnnapolis yesterday. They currently have no boats in stock but will be receiving hull number three of the new Venture series.

If I understood correctly (meaning I may have misunderstood), they are associated in some way with the New Jersey dealer.

To date they have only dealt in sailboats so powerboats are a new species for them. I told them about the C-Brats site and briefly talked about quality issues, particularly my own experiences.

They stated that as of the time of our conversation, they had had no discussions with the factory relative to warranty issues on existing sales. They also appeared to have no inkling as to how Cutter's current inventory (assuming Cutter has an inventory) was to be handled.

Since they had no C-Dories in stock, I told them I would be happy to help them out if they had a potential customer that needed a test ride prior to their getting in some boats.


Bill
Edgewater, MD
 
I was going to give Sail Annapolis a call regarding a new 25, but since they are in some way connected with the NJ dealer I think I will look at the dealer in Long Island, NY.

Why would they give the dealer rights to a company that only had expirence with sail boats?
 
It's a Cdory website but the diesel Rosborough raised our eyebrows into our scalps when the previous post came out. IMHO it's what the 29 venture could have been. Wish I could ride one and then ride a Tomcat AT THE SAME PLACE but....ya.
 
RE Cutter Marine -- when we were in Delaware in July we planned to swing by Cutter on the way to the airport to kick the tires on the C-Dory lineup. To quote the sales guy we have a CD 22 in stock -- I can make you a good deal. You have to order and prepay for any of the other boats in the line up -- no sea trial/test drives available. Not the way to sell boats in my opinion.

Bill Uffelman
Boatless in Las Vegas NV
 
RE: Cutter

Three years ago next month I was looking to buy a CD. I took a couple of days and drove down to Maryland and visited Cutter. The sales manager was off the day I visited so I met the owner. He was most cordial, spent a lot of time with me, and was willing to personally take me for a ride on the 25 he had in the water. Cutter was also carrying the Arimas and the owner seemed equally enthusiastic about that line.

BTW: I wound up buying The Retriever from its first owner who lived on Kent Island in the shadow of the Chesapeake Bay bridge. It had only 21 hours on the Honda 90 and was my best buy in the last five years. :lol:

Phil
 
What all of you have been missing is that Mr. Reynolds owns C-Dory and he has choosen to take his company in a new direction. He's going for the big time just as many entrepreneurs in the past who have bought out a small nitch company and expanded into new markets. Some prosper, some fail. Only time will tell. What you need to do is come up with two designations. C-Dory for the pre-production high quality era and C-Liner (as in Bayliner) for the new production style boats now being produced. What I find ironic is that some on this site cheered the demise of a small startup company that broke away from C-Dory because they shared many of the same concerns you are now expressing.
Forrest
 
What I find ironic is that some on this site cheered the demise of a small startup company that broke away from C-Dory...
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Nobody at all cheered the demise of CC, but many of us despised the underhanded way it came into existence. A judge in three instances and a jury in a fourth upheld the basis for our disgust. That is not irony, it is justice.
 
Mike,
I would like to know about the "underhanded" way you refer to. Please explain or send me a link explaining the situation. As for judges and juries, I think that recent high profile cases have many of us realizing that justice is is achived by the one whom has the best lawyers. Business law (as in most laws) are written by the ones who are in power (the established businesses). New ideas and better products are often not brought to the market because they are blocked by established players.
Forrest
 
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