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For those who like Ethanol
- Thread starter Barry Rietz
- Start date
I wish they would publish the total cost/benefit analysis to using ethanol in gasoline. It is my understanding the ethanol is supposed to be more environmentally friendly and reduce the US reliance on foreign oil but the actual total energy use and pollution from the production of ethanol fuel (planting, growing, harvesting, transport, distilling) negates any benefit. The net energy gain is negative.
Only people who really benefit are farmers who grow the grain for ethanol production and the producers themselves.
Only people who really benefit are farmers who grow the grain for ethanol production and the producers themselves.
ssobol":qyc852nr said:I wish they would publish the total cost/benefit analysis to using ethanol in gasoline. It is my understanding the ethanol is supposed to be more environmentally friendly and reduce the US reliance on foreign oil but the actual total energy use and pollution from the production of ethanol fuel (planting, growing, harvesting, transport, distilling) negates any benefit. The net energy gain is negative.
Only people who really benefit are farmers who grow the grain for ethanol production and the producers themselves.
Totally agree! (And corn growers.)
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Big Corn strikes again. Soon you won't be able to buy real gasoline. In the south we still can buy gasoline but I understand in some western/northern states it it almost impossible to find, even at a much higher price. This is big business pushing their government supported product down our throats.
....I understand in some western/northern states it it almost impossible to find, even at a much higher price
I can attest to this, as can anyone else in The People's Republic of WA. The only place I know now that still sells dyno gas near me is a farmer's co-op on Snohomish...and you will pay for it. I buy 15 gallons every fall for our gen-set (backup power for outages). I store it thru winter and then use it for all my small engines thru summer; mower, power washer, dingy outboard etc. Any extra left over in the fall goes into the wife's Sportage or my VWs. Then back to the co-op for winter. Rinse. Repeat.
I spoke to the manager and she said they used to get it from the refinery in Anacortes. But no more. They now have to truck it up from Tacoma, thru Seattle.
ssobol":88ljb5em said:Only people who really benefit are farmers who grow the grain for ethanol production and the producers themselves.
Little struggling farmers or corporate multinational agribusiness?
localboy":2s6u5eki said:....I understand in some western/northern states it it almost impossible to find, even at a much higher price
I can attest to this, as can anyone else in The People's Republic of WA. The only place I know now that still sells dyno gas near me is a farmer's co-op on Snohomish...and you will pay for it.
I spoke to the manager and she said they used to get it from the refinery in Anacortes. But no more. They now have to truck it up from Tacoma, thru Seattle.
Well that sure won't help the price at the pump. :twisted:
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
hardee":3q0tq71j said:Well that sure won't help the price at the pump. :twisted:
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Exactly. The kicker is she said the dyno gas was refined...AT ANACORTES! The refinery ADDS/MIXES the ethanol to the 100% dyno gas as they pump it into the trucks.
So then they truck it PAST Snohomish, all the way down to Tacoma and then they have to truck it all the way BACK up to Snohomish! She said they could no longer buy it directly from the refinery and had to purchase it from a middle-man supplier. :roll: :roll: :roll: It's like $1 more per gallon! :evil:
There is no place near us that sells pure gas. I do not like putting the ethanol crap in the boat or the bikes. We spent a couple months in the Black Hills last summer, and there were quite a few places that sell non-ethanol there, at about a 50¢ per gallon upcharge. One station owner told me that same thing that Mark said, regarding ethanol being mixed in when they put it in the tanker trucks... he muttered something about "they don't want that crap in their tanks, either." :x
When we put pure gas in our tanks, our mileage improves by around 10%+. Not quite enough to make up the price difference, but I feel better about not buying the ethanol-laced stuff when available.
If you want to know what gas should be selling for these days, I paid $2.15 per gallon a couple days ago, here in south Texas. We are headed to Arizona soon and our daughter said their gas prices are running around $3.00 gallon. Because they can. In eastern AZ, prices are generally lower because of the proximity to New Mexico (where prices are pretty consistently lower). Got collusion?
The US is oil-self-sufficient these days; no reason we should be lacing our good fuel with ethanol. (opinion)
When we put pure gas in our tanks, our mileage improves by around 10%+. Not quite enough to make up the price difference, but I feel better about not buying the ethanol-laced stuff when available.
If you want to know what gas should be selling for these days, I paid $2.15 per gallon a couple days ago, here in south Texas. We are headed to Arizona soon and our daughter said their gas prices are running around $3.00 gallon. Because they can. In eastern AZ, prices are generally lower because of the proximity to New Mexico (where prices are pretty consistently lower). Got collusion?
The US is oil-self-sufficient these days; no reason we should be lacing our good fuel with ethanol. (opinion)
For those who like Ethanol
P.S. I like my ethanol best mixed with soda and a lime.
Gene&Mary
New member
You can buy ethanol free gas in Everett too. Place on Broadway.
Barry Rietz
New member
James, If you are coming up I-10 on your way to AZ, you will find gas is about $2.43 per gallon for 87 octance. If you are headed to Lake Mead or Powell, you can find ethanol-free gas at the Benson city airport, at Lake Havasu, and Page.
As a corn producing "farmer", I am against more ethanol. However, I am only one of a few family farmers left in Ford Co. Ill. The reason commodity prices (Corn and Soy Beans) are down is because of the Tariff situation and lack of purchase of both Soy and Pork by China, plus competition from S. America. (Brazil and Argentina). Now that the tariff situation seems to be settled, hopefully prices will go up. Lots of small farmers in bankruptcy in the last few years. (Also floods and droughts contributed to loss--we could not harvest one section last year due to weather on our farm--had to plow it under in the Spring.) I can attest to the fact that growing corn (and soy) is not cheap, and the margin or profit is fairly slim after paying all of the bills. If one was buying the land or equipment--almost impossible at today's prices.
On a recent drive across America, we saw 87 Octane for as low as $1.99.9 in Louisiana, up to $4.45.9 in Los Angeles... We can still get plenty of "pure Gas" (ethanol free) in Pensacola. It is pricey, and I can only attribute that to lack of demand, and because they can sell it--cost of an additional tank and pump.
We have over a dozen ethanol free (See Pure Gas.org) stations in Pensacola, and the nearest one is about 3 miles away. The current price for Regular 87 oct is in the $2.35 to $2.50 range.
On a recent drive across America, we saw 87 Octane for as low as $1.99.9 in Louisiana, up to $4.45.9 in Los Angeles... We can still get plenty of "pure Gas" (ethanol free) in Pensacola. It is pricey, and I can only attribute that to lack of demand, and because they can sell it--cost of an additional tank and pump.
We have over a dozen ethanol free (See Pure Gas.org) stations in Pensacola, and the nearest one is about 3 miles away. The current price for Regular 87 oct is in the $2.35 to $2.50 range.
Micahbigsur@msn.com
New member
We spend a lot of time in Mexico, corn tortillas have always been one of their inexpensive staples, now with the subsidized rise of fuel ethanol the Mexican poor are being affected by more expensive and limited supply of food corn.
Heading down in a couple of days.
Heading down in a couple of days.
Non-ethanol gasoline is available in N MI. I can now start my small engines on the
first pull and skip the necessary yearly 'service' to clean a gummed up carburetors
and replace the fuel line from the previously used ethanol content. All marinas in
this area sell non-ethanol fuel at over $4/gal.
Of course, you know Uncle Sam subsidizes the corn industry, electric production
as well as electric cars themselves; all energy and tax payer dollars being wasted.
More and continued 'Fleecing of America'.
I heard they're even putting the stuff in Budweiser beer to speed up production...
I like the stuff in there and also have the right to have it 'au naturale': fermented,
not added and paying twice for it.
Aye.
As our mariner ancestors (aye?) said about ethanol: "Just drink it."
first pull and skip the necessary yearly 'service' to clean a gummed up carburetors
and replace the fuel line from the previously used ethanol content. All marinas in
this area sell non-ethanol fuel at over $4/gal.
Of course, you know Uncle Sam subsidizes the corn industry, electric production
as well as electric cars themselves; all energy and tax payer dollars being wasted.
More and continued 'Fleecing of America'.
I heard they're even putting the stuff in Budweiser beer to speed up production...
I like the stuff in there and also have the right to have it 'au naturale': fermented,
not added and paying twice for it.
Aye.
As our mariner ancestors (aye?) said about ethanol: "Just drink it."
Got collusion?
I'm sure there is some of that. But the main reason gas is SO expensive here (and other states) is pure gov't greed. The pigs in Olympia are gouging residents. Their appetites for money and spending has them slobbering at the trough...and taxpayers get screwed.
California pumps out the highest tax rate of 61.2 cents per gallon, followed by Pennsylvania (58.7 cpg), Illinois (54.98 cpg), and Washington (49.4 cpg). You’ll find the lowest gas tax in Alaska at 14.66 cents per gallon, followed by Missouri (17.42 cpg) and Mississippi (18.4 cpg).
https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2019/
According to AAA the average cost of a gallon of gas in the US today is $2.550/gallon. In WA State? $3.213/gallon.
We will most likely be re-locating to the SW once I retire in a couple of years.
localboy":zd7az0mw said:Got collusion?
I'm sure there is some of that. But the main reason gas is SO expensive here (and other states) is pure gov't greed. The pigs in Olympia are gouging residents. Their appetites for money and spending has them slobbering at the trough...and taxpayers get screwed.
California pumps out the highest tax rate of 61.2 cents per gallon, followed by Pennsylvania (58.7 cpg), Illinois (54.98 cpg), and Washington (49.4 cpg). You’ll find the lowest gas tax in Alaska at 14.66 cents per gallon, followed by Missouri (17.42 cpg) and Mississippi (18.4 cpg).
https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2019/
According to AAA the average cost of a gallon of gas in the US today is $2.550/gallon. In WA State? $3.213/gallon.
We will most likely be re-locating to the SW once I retire in a couple of years.
You could get an electric car and avoid gas prices altogether.
Although in some places they are starting to talk about a road tax for electric cars....
DrewbirdII
New member
This is my understanding of why fuel is getting so expensive.
Premium fuel needs to be around 91 octane, so you won't see ethanol added. Mid-grade fuel is a blend of regular and premium to make 89 octane and has about 5% ethanol. Regular fuel has 10% ethanol added for 87 octane, and 85 octane fuel has 15% ethanol. In order to meet the requirements set out to use ethanol, more expensive fuel components are used such as alkylate to add octane.
Modern engines use the command module to "detune" the motor to run on lower octane without valve knock or pinging!
JIM.
Premium fuel needs to be around 91 octane, so you won't see ethanol added. Mid-grade fuel is a blend of regular and premium to make 89 octane and has about 5% ethanol. Regular fuel has 10% ethanol added for 87 octane, and 85 octane fuel has 15% ethanol. In order to meet the requirements set out to use ethanol, more expensive fuel components are used such as alkylate to add octane.
Modern engines use the command module to "detune" the motor to run on lower octane without valve knock or pinging!
JIM.
DrewbirdII":2pdxadxh said:This is my understanding of why fuel is getting so expensive.
Premium fuel needs to be around 91 octane, so you won't see ethanol added. Mid-grade fuel is a blend of regular and premium to make 89 octane and has about 5% ethanol. Regular fuel has 10% ethanol added for 87 octane, and 85 octane fuel has 15% ethanol. In order to meet the requirements set out to use ethanol, more expensive fuel components are used such as alkylate to add octane.
Modern engines use the command module to "detune" the motor to run on lower octane without valve knock or pinging!
JIM.
If fuel is more than 10% ethanol it needs to clearly say so.